Making Sense Of Jordan Peterson
By Leo Gura - May 11, 2021 | 12 Comments
What are the problems with Jordan Peterson’s worldview?
Liburnit says: I hope he watches this and makes a response video.
Iggon says: Me too!
Sam says: Leo,Thanks for this talk. it would seem that an individual can be in more than one stage at a time. You, at one point in this talk, say that Jordan Petersen is in stage Orange and Yellow at the same time and is skipping over the stage Green.
Brian says: I don’t believe that the monarchy in the UK is in the same scheme as monarchies of old; we have a monarchy nested in a democracy, whereby although the queen has power on paper, not only is the Queen’s speech each year written by our elected politicians but we have democratic rights (such as a right to protest and freedom of speech).
Wilhelm says: Best portrait of Jordan Peterson so far. I find him intriguing and carismatic. He has very good rhetoric skills. He seems quite assertive. Unfortunately his green shadow poisons much of his influence on politically uneducated people. If he could integrate his green shadow and appreciate stage green collectivism more – or things like climate change mitigation and self-love, then he would really become a really great teacher!
But is he willing to do this as long as most of his paying fans are libertarians and conservative who all hate stage green as well?
Random College Kid says: Personal notes during Leo’s Jordan Peterson video.
Spiral Dynamics Review
Stage Blue
Yes, Leo, us zoomers still know who Ned Flanders is. Adult type cartoons are still relatively well known with shows like Rick and Morty to Bojack Horseman. Yes, Ned is pretty Stage Blue, and honestly the obviousness of how Stage Blue Ned is, seems more obvious to zoomers and than it does for Gen xers and Boomers, even more than some thirty something millenials sometimes, actually, though being the generation just above us, they’re most likely to agree. Lol, boomers seem convinced Ned Flanders is Stage Turquoise or something these days. Not even sure if they can tell if something is serious satire anymore from what I’ve seen.
Stage Orange
Well, it’s true that the Wolf of Wall Street is stereotypical Stage Orange, but lurking Actualized.org, it seems like people get the impression that if you’re not a wealthy CEO of a large corporation, you can’t be Stage Orange. For example, you can be a small time MLM owner, and even as a small business, you’re scamming people, like a lot of MLMs are these days. Hell, you can even be an artist and still be overly materialistic, such as how many songs just involve singing about money or even just overly elitist artist types who think any style that is not a traditional art type paintings with realistic depictions of people are inferior. Anyone of any job and social class can be Stage Orange.
Stage Green
Yes, most critiques of Jordan Peterson is from Stage Green. Most famous examples include the Jordan Peterson critique videos of Philosophy Tube, Contrapoints and Big Joel if you want some recommendations of what to watch. Then there’s related YouTube channel called Shaun with videos like Do women destory civilizations? A response to Black Pigeon Speaks and Thunderf00t the cherrypicker or the similar YouTuber hbomberguy, which is what a lot of Zoomers call leftist tube or the sphere of YouTube leftist channels, and I’m not saying Leo is like this, but I think a lot of people following Leo (not necessarily people who like Leo, because even people who hate him follow him around all the time, sometimes even more than those who like Leo), would still benefit from those channels even if it’s not as conscious as the higher stages.
The Way Different Spiral Dynamics Stages Hate Each Other.
The irony though is that even if Stage Green is normally thought as having transgender, queer, black, latino, asian or other minority groups, the irony is that a lot of them are still Stage Blue even if it oppresses their own groups. So yes, Leo, the stereoype is that it’s just a white straight man being Stage Blue, not that they can’t be of higher stages, but surprisingly, people volunteer themselves like masochists to support policies and laws against themselves. In many minority groups this happens, but especially with women and the poor for some reason. Some women are staunch feminists. Others want to oppress themselves as much as possible. Then a lot of poor people who are Blue worship rich people so much, that they support to lower the minimum wage even when they are minimum wage workers themselves, contrary to people’s logical explanations of who would be supporting of certain progressive ideas or not. Why else would there be black women reporting on Fox news?
Well, that’s all I could add that I felt was useful to the conversation that Leo did not already add himself here. Just felt if people are coming here not having any idea of the background of the situation, I could at least afford people some context. If people do not even get the first few minutes of Leo’s two hour video, I doubt they’ll bother to listen to the rest of it.
Random College Kid says: Some extra notes on Leo’s video.
Yes, I do agree that some of Jordan Peterson’s nonpolitical ideas have some sense to them sometimes, though the idea of Stage Blue discipline can still be taught from higher stages. There are people out there that are considered far less famous than Jordan Peterson, but they say the same good stuff, without the conservative bigotry. For example, when you refer to the specific population of young liberal people who do not know about Stage Blue discipline well, there’s the Healthy Gamer GG YouTube channel of Dr. K, that had a very Stage Blue cultural upbringing with Indian Hinduism, but he’s since become a famous example of an open minded middle aged adult among zoomers. Then he mixes his advice as a professional licensed therapist with a combination of backed up psychology studies, and some of the valid spiritual lessons of Hinduism, without the dogma included. First watched him give a live therapy session with Jacksepticeye, a YouTube gamer, and he’s been very interesting to me.
Though at the same time, I also relate with the idea that Stage Green exaggerates the uselessness of Stage Blue ideas compared to higher stages like Stage Yellow or the rare Stage Turquoise. Yes, life is unfair, but sometimes you just have to work hard anyway even if life is unfair, because there’s not much you can do. What are we supposed to do if life is unfair? Just give up and expect the corrupt to change of their own volition? It’d be nice if all the billionaires would just give their own riches to much of the poor and downtrodden of the world, but we know they’re not going to do that soon no matter how many other zoomers will complain about that on the internet. Not saying you can’t protest changes in other ways, but I don’t know if venting on social media will work. Maybe it will help release your own stress emotionally, but it won’t really do much of anything practical. We have to work hard in an unequal world not because inequality is valid but because there’s no other choice when it comes to survival.
That’s not saying work hard means you can’t rebel against the institution and status quo, but people act like rebellion is easy. Like you can rebel and do barely any work at the same time. Real rebellion always takes hard work, and the idea that people saying that you have to work hard means that it’s a Stage Orange person who thinks you’re not rich enough of your own effort is absurd. Working hard doesn’t mean working hard in a career without expecting any changes to the system when I say work hard, I mean you have to work hard in making changes in the system AND survival at the same time, because what the hell else are we supposed to do? We have no other choice in a world like this.
Those in situations of inequality, which is 99 percent of society, have to work hard not because we deserve to work harder than the one percent super rich and powerful, but because there’s no other choice to survive. At some point, you’re just going to have to accept that the world is like this, and complaining alone won’t be enough to change the minds of those at the top. In other words, life is unfair, but don’t let that stop you from trying anyway. If you’re going to wait for the time society is fair enough for you to start on your own goals, then you’ll never achieve your own goals.
Max is right so you listen says: There’s this little wrinkle to Ned Flanders, when he’s angry he sure is strong, he’s neurotic, he suppresses his emotions, he acts rational. As for Homer, who’s probably at stage orange, he educates himself about things like being lucky he’s not in Paraguay, he plays his Gameboy-like device, does bowling, drinks beer, but average he’s not, he’s like a baby trying to be nice, and that whole time he looks doped out, he’s also stubborn, of course by getting sick and still eating rancid bacon. He’s also a college boy burning his diploma, that’s enough about that, he’s money-oriented, he likes success and such leaders as self-help coaches, and flies into outer space. But me what I do, I drink my Greek coffee in the morning, eat muesli for breakfast, go out for coffee or dim sims, very religious, but more on the hectic, busy, mobile-game-playing side, I survive on fruit salads from the containers, and ice cream with chocolate syrup, and like a classic Puritan, tobacco, blue clothes, wine, coffee and tea, and suppressing of my sins, which may shock Leo but that’s stage beige, since, in conformist way, I’m surviving.
Max Gron says: I know I’m at stage blue, not beige, I don’t know what to say, of all the isms I stopped following them, I’m merely a misogynist, philosopher of convention, philosopher of philosophy, follower of the “Either” in “Either/Or”, and follower of “Of The Abuse Of Words”, no need to be concerned with conservatism, materialism, Marxism, Stalinism, communism, socialism, or progressivism, etc, those bullshit isms, those are beliefs I don’t feel complete in, even if the “Either” in “Either/Or” is strict, I need muesli and coffee, I need wine, but stage blue’s worthy of following.
Max Gron says: Of societies and stages in spiral dynamics and individuality I don’t play by your rules, Leo, I would undoubtedly pick a stage (I’m a partial stage purple), choose a society and not follow laws of a Leo Gura society, it’s about “thinking for yourself” and not appealing to your “authority”, that’s teaching from your mouth, not mine, and as I think for myself, as with The Church Of Fuck You, I believe what I believe and not what even you say I should believe, I picked stage blue as a stage and I’m not going into stage green, this isn’t evil to me, I think I’m very positive and good, nor am I the devil, nor God, it’s a load of bullshit when reality is simply either of two things: the facts, and the wisdom derived from philosophy, but there’s no truth without fact, how evil things are now and that evil exists is a historical fact, it’s also the fact of Kierkegaard how it leads to despair, you can’t live with women or without them, it implies mankind is in despair, I was never a completely confident man who has overcome all my obstacles and all the hurdles, to do everything right I have to jump through hoops, Kierkegaard, convention, philosophy of philosophy, philosophical argument of the abuse of words, and how evil women are are the only truths, everything else is subordinate accessories to these truths, it makes a difference when you’re even not a capitalist, a communist, or a Stalinist, nor even a royalist, ultra-royalist or regalist, since all the isms are warlike and are only at war with other beliefs, religions, cults, sects, and groups. It should be me the peaceful guy being kind with my friends, and refining my emotions whilst subduing my appetites, not some other bullcrap I never agreed with.
Max Gron says: I would be a fool if I go through revising beliefs any longer, as I would be a fool if I believe a thing because it was served to me on a plate, because I like the idea, or because the belief says so, given this instance, to avoid any betterment means I should remain Puritan, Kierkegaardian, and anti-Australian unless there are other beliefs that don’t make me better, the no-progress, boring beliefs, no improvement. Given this I know I’m at stages blue, purple and orange, fear of isms is just a theory, and it betters me and I don’t want that, more consistency and I’ll cling to it even more, that’s the way to go. Progress is a troublesome waste of time, changes here and there, improvements, I say no, I should be at that stage of fundamentalist religion, and also at that of a cynical philosophy loving God, that taught me to sleep at night. I’m simply going to at night get some shut eye, then wake up not waking up, worried about life, with the blanket over my eyes. It’s that simple yet people overlook this as a house of cards that can’t be maintained, wrong, what’s a house of cards is ever making any improvements, any bullcrap that turns me from heaven, God and the angels, when I should be on the path to heaven, there needs not be a destination, and that’s it, that’s all there is to life, it’s just an existence on earth to die with God and the angels, there isn’t more to life than that.
Max Gron says: Of infinite love that sounds nice, but there’s an evil going through all this scary stuff, I’m already an infinite being, but I don’t infinitely love things. I’m not going through all this bulldust, nor am I going to listen to fools who start cults, even though Puritanism is a cult, I’m not doing any of this threatening stuff, nothing is true, there’s no truth, if anything was true it would have scientific proof and all the aliens and ghosts would disappear, I’m not being tied into Leo’s bullshit, he knows no truth, I had the truth before, of all other things other than truth, Leo doubles down, if I wanted the truth in the first place he wouldn’t become spiritual in the first place, he doubles down on the bullshit and won’t admit he’s a false prophet, he’s following false religion and it’s a distraction from this blessing and that sin, it’s extremely distracting, my “disease” is no disease but a whole system to get me in heaven, so no, infinite love, jailbreaking the mind, and further inquiry aren’t the answer, and it isn’t going to do anything but lead you to actually meet the devil, all this spiritual stuff is the devil, and it’s not the love of God, it’s Satan’s hate sneaked in to do evil things, loving torture, evil and terror is evil, and that’s what the devil tricks you into doing!