A Rant Against The Pickup Community
By Leo Gura - January 25, 2016 | 70 Comments
Must-watch for all PUAs
Leo Gura says: IMPORTANT, PLEASE READ:
You’re probably wondering at this point… “Okay, Leo! Okay! What can I actually do about this? Should I quit pickup entirely? How am I supposed to get better with girls?!!!!”
If you suck with girls, the reality is that you need to approach them to get better. That said, you can do so in a MUCH more responsible way than the PUA community would suggest. Try the following practical changes to your game:
– Be honest with yourself that you are manipulating when you are
– Notice how much you manipulate via text
– Notice how much you manipulate for sex itself
– Stop being so calculating
– Start caring about the woman’s agenda above your own
– Stop pressuring women for sex like a used car salesman
– Stop telling women downright lies, including little lies like, “Oh, we’re just going to my house to watch TV.”
– Reduce your manipulation by 80%
– Stop exaggerating about yourself and how good/cool you are
– Stop drinking the PUA community dogma/cool-aid
– Stop gossiping so much with your PUA buddies about PUA dogma
– Stop demonizing “nice guys” and “chodes”
– Stop using pickup lines (if you still are)
– Stop judging women
– Stop blaming women for not liking you or sleeping with you
– Stop calling women sluts, whores, bitches, cunts, etc.
– Stop perpetuating the myth that women are disloyal and will cheat easily
– Be honest with women that you do pickup and why you got into it
– Stop cheating on women
– Stop withholding important information from women (lying by omission)
– Stop building harems and burning through women
– Take measures to minimize emotional collateral damage to women. Don’t toy with their emotions
– Respect women more
– Stop only doing one-night-stands and stop trying to get your lay count up
– Stop showing off pictures of your girls to other guys to brag
– Stop gloating about how many women you’ve been with
– Stop hitting on women who have boyfriends or husbands
– Don’t dump women in a cruel way
– Try actually communicating with your woman and building an authentic honest relationship
– Try being interested in women beyond sex
– Stop pushing women’s emotional hot-buttons
– Stop with the fake emotionality and drama
– Exhibit more empathy!
– Become an advocate for responsible pickup and set a good example for the community by embodying higher consciousness values
– Etc.
The bottom line is, there are lots of way to do pickup more responsibly and more consciously. You know… be more like a human and less like a horny used car salesman
Will this diminish your results? Of course it will! That’s the cost of doing honest business!
Your integrity and self-actualization, though, will improve. I promise!
And stop bullshitting yourself! You ARE a fucking ego-maniac. This is just a band-aid on a much bigger issue that we’ll need to work on over the years. But at least it’s a start!
Bahaa says: Loe, could we have your opinion on Feminism?
Rita says: Don’t give it Leo. It’s a lose/lose for you…I promise.
But leo are you assuming that manipulation is a low conscienceness value?
Jimmy Feiling says: Because digestive juices are manipulation
Alexander says: I never got into pick-up community stuff. I try my best to be honorable & respectful, but, when I approach women in a club I always feel like I’m being clingy or needy.
When I’m in a more confident mood I don’t feel it as much & can keep a great conversation flowing, but I still feel it at the back of my mind, scratching, telling me that this is morally wrong, that this isn’t me.
Leo Gura says: ADDITIONAL POINT ABOUT RSD:
Many of you follow RSD content and philosophy. You’re probably wondering, “Does what Leo say apply to RSD?”
Yes! It certainly does. I see RSD as a community of guys. This community has a set of common values and ethos. These values are what I’m critiquing because these values (generally speaking) are egotistical, narcissistic, and immature.
Does this mean I hate RSD? No.
Do I have a personal dislike for RSD instructors? No. Some of them are very inspiring. And I’ve met them all in-person.
Does this mean everything in RSD is evil? No.
Does this mean every single one of the RSD values is immature? No.
Does this mean that RSD doesn’t have some good personal development ideas and techniques? No.
Fundamentally what I’m advocating is a raising of the values of the community, more focus put on ethics, and more responsibility and empathy.
Player with a golden heart anyone?
Caelis says: what is RSD? what does it stand for?
Peter Draxler says: Stands for real social dynamics. Check out rsdfreetour youtube channel.
Nicholas says: I’m really glad you posted this, like no joke, as I’ve been slowly progressing my skills I’ve noticed a sense of unconsciousness and manipulative actions, in the moment I was getting what I wanted but felt off, but after I sat down and meditated on it, and thought more about it, I’ve noticed it’s been getting worse, and I never knew what it really was. The thing you said about doing these things alone and it being almost impossible to do this without support really hit home, because it’s exactly what I’ve been trying to do. and this video opened my eyes about the direction and path that I’ve been slowing lurking down to get what I want, which I will ultimately get if I work at it, but I’ve always loved having powerful relationships, meaningful growing relationships, the things I remember most from my relationships was the growth.
Leaving them better than I found them and helping them grow (without sacrificing myself or putting them over me) has been the most satisfying thing to me.
I’m not one to write on videos or comment. But I can say this for people like me, there are people out there who follow you religiously, but they don’t talk much, and I am definitely that person, so from me to you, I see the value in every little piece of your video, just having these videos out here on the internet already gives me peace of mind that I have this at my disposal which I’m surprised to see most people can’t see.
Leo Gura says: Well… let’s keep the religious part to a minimum. I don’t want to start a new dogma with Actualized.org
But thanks!
Nate says: Great video. Thanks for posting it. And thanks for all the content you put out. I’ve learned a lot from you.
You hit a lot of good points with this one. I think for a lot of guys, including myself, the pickup stuff is a really good catalyst for some inner growth, but it does have limited personal development benefits.
What I question about the message of the video is just how much pick up techniques hurt women. You stressed the manipulation aspect a lot, but that leaves me wondering how that is hurtful or disrespectful to women. There is certainly some manipulation involved with pickup, but that’s really the case with almost everything that involves other people. The fact is we all show different aspects of ourselves to different people for varied reasons. One part of your personality comes out during a set at a club, while a different aspect of your personality comes out when talking to your boss, or a friend, or a business partner. Why is pickup worse or any different than when we talk to any person in a specific way?
I see this idea that pickup is somehow manipulative to women as disempowering to women. If a guy is having a good time in a club with a girl, and she chooses to go home with him because pickup techniques made her attracted to him, she is still choosing to go home with him. Most pickup guys wouldn’t promise her any commitment or the like to get her home. He just showed a particular side of himself that made her attracted to him.
You gave the analogy of the pickup community being analogous to a community of women who try to marry the richest men they can and then get divorced. But the difference between this and pickup is that if a woman did that, she would have to promise the guy she is marrying that she loves him and wants to be with him forever. If she is standing at the altar taking marriage vows while also having the secret intention to divorce him, she is blatantly lying to get what she wants.
The point here is that women have a choice to sleep with a guy or not, and doing “normal” pickup stuff is making it more likely she will want to say yes. By acting like the PUA is somehow manipulating her to do something she doesn’t want to do doesn’t give women enough credit in their ability to decide things for themselves.
I don’t meant to be overly critical, and I think this video has a lot of great information and food for thought. I just wanted to make these points so that there might be an intelligent conversation about these issues.
Annemiek says: Amen to you Nicholas (and Leo)
Gavin says: Hey Leo,
This was tough as yourself and Tyler are both on my vision board (I understand he is not the target of the video specifically)
I have always found it hard to reconcile my desire to get better with women, with trying not to hurt anyone else in the process. My goal (apart from sex) has really been to become more social and confident enough to attract the girls I really want. Getting good with girls strikes me as one of the last rituals / rites of passage that we actually have these days.
I appreciate you highlighting the ironic group think operating within the community. It is very hard to see when you’re immersed in it. Things like the notion of women being disloyal cheaters, never occurred to me before getting into pickup.
I know the point of the video was to act as a warning, to call out all the bad aspects and how they can impede actualization and spiritual growth. I find myself weighing up the good vs. the bad aspects of learning pickup and hoping the video doesn’t have the unintended effect of dissuading people from a potential avenue of personal development. RSD really opened my eyes to many things and actually lead me to personal development, meditation and your channel Also, I believe the misguided sexual energy and frustration of young guys can be a dangerous thing in its own right and I hope the community has at least a small positive attenuating effect on that.
Is it because sex and intimacy rank pretty low on the hierarchy of needs, I actually find it quite hard to focus on some of the higher level stuff (especially feeling creative) without getting that part of my life handled? I think it might be one thing keeping me stuck in “orange”! So I feel it’s still worth working on, from that perspective.
I’m going to redouble my efforts to be more honest and less manipulative. Player with a golden heart sounds ideal
Great stuff though. I personally think the video wasn’t long enough!
Leo Gura says: Sex and dating is fine. Not too much of a problem there.
This video was addressing irresponsible and egotistical PUA behavior. Which has nothing to do with sex and dating itself. The two can be separated.
Gavin says: Wow, yeah I guess I’ve only been looking at sex and dating through the one lens these last couple of years, equating one with the other. Kind of scary. Thanks!
Gavin says: By which I mean looking at sex and dating through the lens of pickup philosophy.
Omar says: Hi Leo,
I just started watching your videos, and they are amazing because I feel that you hit the nail in the head and I leave feeling refreshed and renewed. But, I am really having a hard time trying to differentiate between dating/sex and pickup?
I think they are very similar in the sense that you need to go out and approach girls and go on a date, I think I am missing something, What is YOUR definition of dating/sex?
Please help me get this straight Leo!!
Thanks in advance!
Harrison says: You are so correct about this video. If i had to choose to between a casual hook up, or the true emotional value my non sexual woman friend brings me, my woman friend any day. So I follow what your saying. This friend is a attractive, but the value she brings as a human being to me is far out ways the urge to have sex with her. I do know my urges are natural, but hurting someone is my worst nightmare. So i’m seeing hookups can work if both parties respect each other.
Arik says: Do you think Nick Spark’s approach of taking a kind of “meditative”, “intuitive” way to go about dating and getting sexual is something to consider? (See: How to Get Sexual Like a Man – Nick Sparks on YouTube)
Man, you really got me with this one. Real bad. I read and saw lot’s and lot’s of Eben Pagan’s stuff and this works so good.
But you are completely right with this video. This is just more sugar for the ego to find the best way to exploit women and not facing much inner problems. Just the next little trick that will get us this …
Raj says: So at what point do we start taking responsibility for everyone around us? Do I have to worry about what everyone’s agenda is before thinking about mine?
That is how I used to be and I suffered big time. Now I am just being authentic and honest about how I feel.
Leo Gura says: No, you actually only need to take responsibility for yourself. But FULLY and consciously. << This is NOT the same as selfishness.
Harrison says: I think as far as men are wired to hook up with woman, we naturally try to plant our seed in as many woman as possible, to ensure our genes live on. So our hook up culture follows what our biology wants. I think two goals. One stop our sexual society,it is out of control. The second part is have a mutually agreement when hooking up. No one lies, tries to heavily seduce the other person, finds age appropriate people to hook with and is safe to prevent transmitted diseases and pregnancy. If someone says no at any time, both people stop and talk. And after both people try to figure out were to go from there. So you are right Leo, respect. Thanks so much for your videos, I will give to others like you do, and travel the world while doing so.
Harrison says: What I need to add. A big one is see people as complex, emotional beings, hard to do. But remember during your hook up, this a person with deep feelings and that is were respect can come from. I’m a virgin, but all to many times I have heard bad stories, like lies about age, assaults, or other lies. This hook up faze can be because the person wants to be single for a while, but enjoy sexual contact. A hook up could lead to the love of your life. I would say over all, enjoy hookups if they are for you, but really careful.
George Lawson says: PUAs are operating from a reactive not creative paradigm, and that’s there core issue right there. There’s something creative about the art of pleasing another woman for her sake, whilst chasing after pussy is the reaction of a horny chimp.
Caelis says: Leo dude, I’ve got a question for you. I have been in stage green (the hippie stage) for a long time, I was very idealistic, against money, materialism, ratio and ego, but after a few years I realized that I was always telling stories and having dreams but never making anything real, and that made me want to understand stage orange (I wasn’t aware that there were different stages) but the first thing I saw then, was that I had to take responsibility of my own life so I started hanging out with people from all different stages, even criminals, just to get a higher understanding of what was happening in the world. I had some interesting converstations with people but that was not how I wanted to end up so I decided to take other steps to become more independent and get my needs met. I had some relationships before that started, but they all ended because I committed myself too much too them, I had no purpose and became too needy for love. That had to stop, and I was the one who had to change, so after that I came across some pick up product that made statements like “gain more confidence, become a leader, blablabla” but now I have got the feeling that in order to grow myself, I have to get all of the orange stage first, I have to ace it before I am ready to move back on to green so I have got enough practical experience to realize my dreams and do something.
My question is: What are your thoughts about this?
Caelis says: oh lol nevermind, I didn’t watch the whole vid, well explained Leo, everything you say here makes so much sense
Leo Gura says: Life will unfold however it will unfold for you. If you feel you need to be a criminal, be a criminal. You don’t really have a choice in the matter. Ego likes to think it has a choice, but it doesn’t.
On the other hand, if life unfolds for you in the direction of higher consciousness, let that happen too. Perhaps you don’t need to stay in Orange as long as you think.
Wisdom is having the intuition to drop all the baser desires and going straight for consciousness without all the bullshit detours. But sometimes you just can’t because you gotta burn through some karma.
Ross says: Hey Leo, don’t you think cold approach should not be attempted in college for the sake of ones reputation (ie “He’s such a creep”).
Leo Gura says: Beast mode shouldn’t perhaps, but chatting up girls is no problem.
Phillip says: Hey Leo,
Thank you for bringing up this issue. I went myself through a phase of admiring PUAs in my early 20s, although I never really got involved with them in a deeper way (and certainly do not call them my true friends nowadays, they are just typical FB friends).
However, here is the problem: as you mentioned yourself, the foundation of this whole life-style is flawed. It’s good for building up your ego (which you definitely need to do if you come from a position of a weak ego). But once you’ve done that you will find that these people will create little value for you in life. They are just good for teaching you some basic skills like how to approch girls, how to fight for your own rights, how to dump someone when you need to – things you need to learn when you are young and when you do not have those skills. But once you’ve got it you are ready to proceed with your original agenda. Which is of course evolving the Higher Self.
I think the fact you brought up this whole issue might actually reflect the background of your audience pretty well. I would bet a shit there are a lot of PUAs on this website here who are looking for “inspiration” how to improve their mediocre lives. But certainly there a lot of other types folks out there, too, so this is just a wild guess. Great website anyways, thank you, Leo! Really deep insights.
Mila says: ??
Are you referring to people who go to bars, etc and walk out with a total stranger for sex?? The name for this is “Pickup”?
Leo Gura says: Yes
Nancy says: I am a 59 year old woman and have never heard of this.
This was very eye opening. It makes me look back over my 23 years of being single and dating until I got married. I don’t think this was as prevalent then.
Leo, I love all your videos and have been into self help/actualization since I was 22. You are so spot on!!!
What is RSD?
Leo Gura says: RSD is a company that teaches pickup and have a big community of guys and some of them watch my videos.
Julian says: I really enjoy you videos but too much ego lately.
You’re my new superman Leo. You have a solution to everything. Problem? Bang Bang and you can show exactly what is not working, whats wrong and why it is so. Very physical, mechanical and mind like. All areas covered,Sir
Some say that darkness disappears in the presence of light
Rita Kamil says: Hey Leo,
The thing is….the PUA target market IS that young-lesser-evolved-man…
Thus, I think you’re putting too high of expectations on PUA.
PUA can’t fulfill your expectations….I really don’t think it was never intended to be more evolved than the “college bro” (IMO).
PS: luv your vids! Pls keep doing what you’re doing.
Rita
Asaiah Powers says: Dear Leo, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with giving the girl attention, sympathizing,empathy,validating her emotions etc. Its just that don’t want to be in her eyes some creep or little bitch from being a nice guy
Guy says: An example of the sort of reaction which hard line pick up can generate is what happened to Real Social Dynamics when they visited Australia in 2014. Following the first seminar in Sydney, there was so much protest that further seminars had to be canceled and the group left the country. They were then prevented from running seminars in a string of other countries including the UK and Japan and had to cancel some seminars in the US. The behavior advocated was deemed so abusive to women that the seminar leader has been banned from the UK, Australia and Singapore. The Wikipedia article on Julien Blanc explains these events in detail.
Dustin says: Leo,
At 46:30 you said “Feminism takes it one step too much to one side.” You said it’s kind of the polar opposite of pickup in that way. I feel that it’s important to clear up what feminism is.
The definition of feminism is “the advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.” Many people confuse the word feminism with the word misandry, which is the opposite of misogyny. The opposite of feminism would therefore be gender discrimination. Neither feminism or gender discrimination have anything to do with the egotism found in the pickup community.
Leo Gura says: Perhaps. But pickup culture has it’s own characterization of feminism which is very different than that.
Tait Jones says: Feminism as defined by the dictionary is fine, but in practice it is rarely what it advertises. This is a weird parallel to make but here goes:
Terrorism is leveraging peoples fears to control their behavior. Madmen strap bombs to themselves, but true terrorism is George Bush and Barrack Obama who create and leverage public fear to support and streamline their own agendas.
Feminists do the same thing. An example of a “real” feminist is Vonnie Bower a 20 year veteran welder in SF. I use her as an example because in structural welding nobody gives a fuck about your sex, sexual orientation, or your opinions on anything. Can your work hold up to code requirements and can you perform in a capacity that exceeds that of your coworkers both in quality and consistency. It is just a numbers game.
Feminism is retarded in practice as a movement. There is no playing field to level. This woman I mentioned is a better welder than myself because she has at least 11years of experience on me. It is so simple, man or woman, outwork everyone around you for a long enough duration and you come out on top. Period.
Matteo says: Hi Leo,
My name is Matteo, I have watched many of your videos and they really helped in different situation, I admire your work and I hope all the best for you.
I also hope you will have time to give me your opinion.
It’s the first time I am commenting one of your videos, but I mainly felt the necessity to express my idea about this topic.
First of all I completely understand your point of you, and tried to keep my mind open for all the video.
I believe that in the pick up community there is a lot of bad suggestions at the level of the self development, but if you are able to find it there are also some great useful information.
I believe that the one that I have encountered were really valid and useful for me. I think because they worked more on the inner level and on breaking your social fear.
Other than that, in general I think the solution for this argument all depends on your goal.
If you are trying to self actualized yourself and find a steady happiness with what you have, I think your suggestions are useful.
On the other hand if you are trying to know more about yourself, experience and push the boundaries of your comfort zone I think that this approaching lifestyle can be, more than beneficial.
As you said the life can be divided in different steps, and I think that when you are young and you want to understand more about your limits the approaching lifestyle can exciting and effective.
In the end I think the most important thing is being aligned with your goal and be aware of the steps of life.
So as a suggestion I wouldn’t demonize the PUA lifestyle, because can be useful and exciting for a period of your life.
Thank you for your help and your motivation
I hope to see your opinion
Sincerely,
Matteo
P.S. It’s always possible to take the positive part from everything, without falling into the excess.
Sina says: Generally I’ve been doing fine with women but still there has been many questions. For instance, my best friend is a natural very successful “player” or whatever the name is. I’ve been seriously wondering why he behaves however he wants (like disrespect them and all) and still gets the best result.
So I went through a couple of programs by David DeAngelo whom you might now. They were inner-work oriented and actually very deep. I got many of questions answered by his materials.
But then more questions raised, something was definitely wrong, like why my friend is genuinely not happy and tend to drink a lot and compulsively sleep with different people. Or ok, how come David D. is married himself.
Finally, after listening to this podcast, things are more clear than ever. Thanks Leo.
Elton says: How do you know? That we can’t skip stages? What if we don’t want to go through the spiritual stage? and jump to the next colour?
Leo Gura says: Developmental psychology is a very well-researched field. Study the literature.
The desire to skip stages is what the ego tries to do because it doesn’t want to face its own falsehoods.
Tait Jones says: I’ve always had a flawed strategy of attempting to be “clever” to circumvent stages of progression. I have a question for you: I have never really had any desire (at least consciously) to manipulate women or be a pick-up artist, player, etc.; although, I can reflect on a few times in my past when I have behaved as such.
I don’t see any value in short lived shallow relationships. The true search for me is to find the person I can tell jokes to from across a crowded room by eye contact and gestures. Serious intimacy.
I have cycled through these colour stages multiple times and at the moment seem to be torn between becoming absorbed in the orange and holding on to the green.
One thing I am sure of is that I don’t have a clue what I am doing when approaching women, or strangers in general.
I am an introverted extrovert that had to address some serious abandonment issues as I got older (so yes, I’ve been the clingy dude in past relationships.)
Life has been this weird enigma of trying to figure out how to “merit being good enough to be loved by another person.”
I have tried to just be friendly to people without motive for several years now, but I consistently get the same screwed up results. If I strike up conversation with a woman that isn’t sexual and has no goal except to have a friendly exchange, its always taken as flirting or making some sort of pass. (And their reaction is often rude). I haven’t actually talked to or approached a woman with the intention of getting a date in years.
Something of note, I’ve been told I can be very intimidating. I’m 6’1″ 180lbs and in really good shape. However, I seriously get terrified of social interaction and used to leverage this fear when skydiving to get myself out of the plane.
I don’t know where to start.
Miley says: This video really got me thinking about all my values. It seems that most of them feed the ego or is trying to fill a void. Is there a difference with resonating with a value and fulfilling an ego’s craving?
Ninos says: Leo you are changing your view of life. You had videos asking us to fuck as many woman as possible. You said something about to be a man you have to fuck a lot and we should fuck the world. It made sense when you said it because guys that fuck are very confident. But inside they are garbage, because they don’t care about the big picture. I think I commented and you disagreed with me. I don’t recall. Our view of life was diffrent. Now you seem to be coming to my view point. I think soon you might believe and God and might become Christian. You are on the right track.
Kevin says: Why is someone on the right track in becoming a Christian? It doesn’t make sense at all. And shouldn’ t you be doing any Pickup at all, as you are a Christian?
Natalya says: Thank you Leo, I hope you’ll come up with more videos of this nature. Someone needs to tell men to stop treating women like objects.
Kristian says: Dear Leo, i hope that you read this.
I want to tell you that your videos are truly healing. i get a ton smarter with your help.
I find those pieces of knowledge that i been seeking whole my life in short half hour.
My brother is a pua and he got scared when i explained him that i dont have a system to get woman, that i just talk with them and ask them out or make some joke and kiss them..pua call it natural – i would not do stuff to girls that’s inhuman i want to make them feel good, pua is so damn unnecessary
it’s true that i dont understand their anatomy completely and am not best kisser on planned but pua is so unnecessary
i tell girls honestly what i think and why i want to be with them..
as i view it its a Art to keep them out from life to work on my dreams
i work on my life purpose(not completely clear but i got a draft and i gain knowledge how to build it)
anyway, thank you for teaching me
Kevin says: Yo Leo,
It is a good thing that you posted this as extra information as I saw this video especially being spread on the RSD Nation site. Guys stating you are wrong and treating you as an enemy, only because you giving feedback on the matter. They jumped to conclusions too fast so it is a good thing you straightened some things up here.
For me, your video was the final blow in an already unconscious pre-verbal proces of breaking down the pick-up fortress. Sometimes you just feel things are not ‘ right’. Like doing everything in order to gain validation from women or even using this as a mean to get validation from other guys to be perceived as cool.
Anyhow, I have done this myself for years and even coached, but the last year I even tried to convince guys getting out of the pickup community. It is sickening, keeps you stuck. In your video you talk about the points I was thinking, but I felt such a loner in this, even if some points were still preverbal but on the level of ‘ feeling’ already present.
I am very curious actually what made you start doubting the pick-up community. You said after years you really began to dive into the arguments and epiphanies which do not support pick-up philosophy at all. Perhaps we share common ground. For me, after reading Mark Manson Models (and corresponding with him) and reading the entire booklist which the book is founded on (besides his personal thoughts on the matter)(No more mr. nice guy; Brene Brown – Power of vulnerability etc.). But even though these books were a first turning point, I initially USED them or convinced myself this was the new METHOD. But it still did’ t FEEL good. I just felt I was stuck, and I missed genuine communication and even alltruistic behavior, which is so not align with PUA-Philosophy.
On the flipside of this, I ask you. Aren’ t you affraid this video of yours, is ‘ used’ again by PUA’ s as a new way of pick-up? Or PUA communities like RSD are going to MISINTERPRET your video very subtle and even turn it around as to use it to support their ideas? Because I honestly think, they are using s much Popular psychology linguistics to sound very ‘ advanced’ but well. yeah. Is usually just common sense put into very not so common sense to sustain their ‘ GOD-status’ and ‘ LOOK-at-ME-BEING- SO COOL and I got the answers…
‘ We are narcisistic, we MUST BE more GENUINE now. Because if your current development isn’ t ready for the true deep meaning of it, it just can’ t conceive it? Anyway keep up the good stuff. I think your videos make a lot of what is unconsciously present in many guys is being verbalised, thus making clear what was unclear but present.
Cheers,
Kv
Netherlands
Tina says: PU community? PU seminars? PU products? PU theories? Is this a real thing?
Wow. I honestly had no idea. This ‘culture’ seems incredibly misguided. And so obviously not healthy.
Kevin says: Hey Tina,
That is true. They are incredibly misguided in terms of personal development, even though it is quite funny they are using the term frequently. The personal development never gets further than an increase in building the ego and gratifying the ego.
I was impressed and enlightened by Leo’ s comparison of PUA with spiral dynamics and it all made sense. He puts it in a bigger picture. And as Einstein quoted: ” The same problems can’ t be fixed in the same paradigm.”
Pickup was an answer or reaction against the traditional roles of man (status and money) at the time it emerged. I consider it as an understandable development of cultural values to a next level at the time it appeared.
In the colors I interpret it as in going from blue to orange. Anyhow, it is a transcendence to a ‘ higher’ level, more egocentric, narcissistic now (more I). On the level of EGO, on the level of this colour, it is almost entirely based on SUcces. Personal succes with women. So every action is based in the pursuit of this. Personal win. But the pickup community stays stuck at this level as there appears to be a contradiction in more more and more personal succes and building the walls of Ego even though it conceive it as ‘ The Way’.
At a certain level for me, and for many others (I assume Leo as well), there comes a point where u realize more and more and more there is something wrong with this. And this is the point where u start transcending to a next level. You are being confronted with making a choice to leave this landscape of Pickup in the process to a new higher level where new values are being created. For me, it was/is connectedness with other human beings, peace etc. (the hippy alike lol).
But it is very hard for many guys to do this, because this means you won’t be as successful in terms of results with girls anymore. And because PUA teaches guys to be more effective with girls it is inherent that PUA doesn’t evolve beyond this level. It interprets everything and uses every bit of information, even Eckhart Tolles teachings in the service of personal win. To reach the next level would mean abandon many values and I assume the PU-community would close down entirely.
Therefore when guys are attracted to this, I assume it is not ‘ wrong’ but part of their spiritual development to experience themselves and transcend beyond this. Sometimes they need a depression, sometimes they need to experience dreadful experiences and in return perhaps, seek solitude to reflect on what they value, other perspectives, the world, the humans etc.. That is the part where they discover it doesn’t bring anything to their soul or the souls of others (and I don’ t mean this in a new agey way). For me, this is where I got forced to contemplate on everything.
Tina says: Hi Kevin,
Thank you for taking the time to write and share your perspective with me.
You’re right, of course. And I apologize if I came across as judgemental or critical.
I’m in no position for that and believe completely in people walking their own path.
I guess I was just a bit taken aback that there was something as established as a pick up community. I didn’t realize it was such a “Thing.’
I guess I don’t get out much!!
Enjoy your journey
Ahdriam says: Ahoi Leo, I must say you confuse me a little, all those who I percive to be enlighted or are close to that such as my kong fu teacher master wong, every crazy bearded indian yogi, monks and zen masters of all sorts, they don’t seem to care the slightest for girls, niether “pick up” nor meaningful releationsheaps.
I don’t recall the Budah having a girlfriend.
It is really hard to not care at all for girls especialy when you are near them but isn’t it just your mind playing tricks and decieving itself, so in order to kill the ego shouldn’t I avoid girls?
The other day a pretty girl aproched me and started smiling and I decided to simply walk away from her and I have felt as if I am detaching from reality, how come you don’t use that aproche? Don’t you believe it’s right?
I am looking forward for your answer
Is there a gay version of this video in the works? I found this very incredible but it is taking care of one side of the coin.
Kelley White says: As someone who fell victim to someone who did this? I really thank you for the video.
Joe says: Leo, I first got into pick up after being married for many years and going to a terrible divorce. Self-esteem was wiped out was lonely and doing terrible with women. I happen to find your videos on pickup on YouTube which got me going to investigate it. Since then I have been moderately successful. I use certain aspects of pickup to my advantage in order to meet woman. I have found pick up has helped me more in self development and self confidence building then all the other self help methods I have used. I’ve built confidence, self-esteem, not just in the area of woman but is also help me in other aspects of my life , and it turns out the girls actually enjoy it! I really don’t understand your 180 degree stance on it. Unless you feel you were doing something morally wrong yourself . If that’s the case maybe you should do some inter examination of your methods of operation . If you are unhappy about what you would doing might be a good time to change . It’s just like everything else in this world. You can make good or bad of it. Look at the people that twist the Bible to make it work in their favor look at David Koresh, you can take anything to an extreme. All depends what type of individual you are. I believe everybody has their own movie and I don’t interfere with other people’s movie I just care about what works for me I tried to see the good in everything
Leo Gura says: Well, what you’ll discover with further development and time is that everything I said in this video is accurate.
You’re not yet at the point in your development where you’re willing to seriously investigate the mechanisms of your ego and their limitations.
Joe says: I’m guess you can make pickup what what ever you want.. i am not some over sexed dude looking to put another notch on his belt or build up my ego based on conquests, i am using it to find a girlfriend , it happens to be the fastest and most efficient method i can find for meeting and dating attractive woman. At this point in my development the only thing real thing holding me back is the very difficult task of shattering old belief about what attracts woman and what they want in a man. I’m understand most of the concepts. Most of it is in field practice as you have stated in some of your videos. There really is no better way.
Danny says: You say you have thousands of hours of live infield pickup, but a simple search returns nothing online. I’m not having a pop at you, but with all of these credible videos, I’m surprised that a bold claim like that can’t be verified.
I do, however, agree with your comments about how Pickup should be more ethical. I used to spend nights out with guys who made my skin crawl, and I started to become like them as I saw the results they were getting, but it’s short lived and definitely not fulfilling.
Nietzshean says: PUAs are in a way, are attempting to become the Overman. They in a way celebrate life. They are the Dionysus of this era. They celebrate what is noble in human beings; power, fame and prestige. According to Nietzsche in his work about Dionysus and Apollo, humans must celebrate life. He also wanted us not become sheeps who view people more powerful than them as evil but as humans who view power as a virtue.
Kevin says: Just read Zarathoestra heh, What is noble for one, might not be noble for another, it is all about the big paradigm one views himself in relation to the world. The power, fame and prestige is all about manipulation in order to get what I want and in the process making use of others and even doing harm to them. If that is what an overman is, you might have also read that a man is not an ending point, thus always developing. Power as a virtue is only seen as a virtue by Big Egos. But they will be crushed to, they must and will go down as well, because that will be the next Overman in his downfall. Man will get tired by his own egoistic and narcisistic way of life. Therefore The PUAs were just a point in an ongoing revolution. The dionysus of the PUA s will be repelling to the next.
Erotic Tour Guide says: It doesn’t sound like you have done all forms of what has been called “pick-up.” This sounds like a reaction to the Mystery Method and schools that have come from it.
Before Mystery Method, there was the practice of always “leaving them better than you found them.”
There is nothing wrong with talking to women about what they want to talk about, exciting them with language patterns like any good poet might do, and then giving them your business card to hang out sometime if they want to. Sure it’s manipulation, but so is every single action you ever take whether you’re aware of it or not. What is so bad about wanting to see them again? I honestly don’t care whether we have sex or not, because some of them will end up wanting to and others I’ll just have a great connection with…or not.
If she’s the one who suggests you go back to the house and cuddle and then wants more, are we supposed to say no just because we described one of our experiences to her and it can be seen as “manipulation?”
In my opinion, certain models of Speed Seduction and the teachings of Brent Smith are not guilty of many of the things you have generalized about pick-up, and actually steer you TOWARDS the Green.
I could put several of the videos you have here under the “pick-up” umbrella, are you referring to them as well when you generalize the term “pick-up?”
Erotic Tour Guide says: P.S. No, pick-up will not create fulfillment.
But neither will a relationship or children.
Are we all to go celibate in order to attain true detachment and non-duality?