Can you move up Maslow's Hierachy if you don't have sex?

[bloomer]

Well not really just sex, but love. Alternative title "Can you move up Maslow's Hierachy if you're not loved?" My minds become obsessed with sex, love, finding a woman and a sense of connection. If I don't get that does that mean I can't self actualize? Read someone that trying to skip steps on Maslow's Hierachy is what breeds mental illness. Am I just stuck in the bottoms purgatory if I can't find a woman? Also sex is occasionally listed as a physiological need on some of the pyramids I've seen, why is this? 

[ZenRising]

Maslow's hierarchy wasn't intended to be a rigid set of sequential categories... more a general nebulous framework... he himself talked about there being overlap and things not necessarily always being in sequence... so no, you don't have to have sex to self-sctualise, but mastering the part of yourself that limits you're ability to fulfil your sexual needs will be an important help in freeing up energy for the 'higher' pursuits...

[hyruga]

Many people may not realize that during the last few years of his life Maslow believed self-transcendence, not self-actualization, was the pinnacle of human needs. What's more, it's difficult to find any evidence that he ever actually represented his theory as a pyramid. On the contrary, it's clear from his writings that he did not view his hierarchy of needs like a video game-- as though you reach one level and then unlock the next level, never again returning to the "lower" levels. He made it quite clear that we are always going back and forth in the hierarchy, and we can target multiple needs at the same time.

So what’s your problem with the pyramid?

It’s described as ‘Maslow’s pyramid’ when he did not create it and it’s just not a good representation of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It perpetuates unfair criticisms of the theory. For example, that people are only motivated to satisfy one need at a time, that a need must be 100% satisfied before a higher-level need kicks in, and that a satisfied need no longer affects behavior. Another is the view that everyone has the same needs arranged and activated in the same order. In his 1943 article in Psychological Review Maslow anticipates these criticisms and says they would give a false impression of his theory. Maslow believed that people have partially satisfied needs and partially unsatisfied needs at the same time, that a lower level need may be only partially met before a higher-level need emerges, and that the order in which needs emerge is not fixed.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/who-created-maslows-iconic-pyramid/

[Leo Gura]

In practice you will be a broken man, held back by your basest cravings like an animal while acting all spiritual and too cool for sex.

[somegirl]

@bloomer

That's like asking can you do spiritual stuff or achieve enlightment while starving. 

The thing is, fulfilling basic human needs is prerequisite for other things (things that are on a higher place in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs). At least I believe this to be true. 

[Shin]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

In practice you will be a broken man, held back by your basest cravings like an animal while acting all spiritual and too cool for sex.

Can 100% confirm this.

@bloomer It will only held you back, you have to take care of all of it.

That doesn't mean you can't tackle a bit the higher stuff, but it shouldn't be a priority most of the time if any.

[museumoftrees]

You could probably transcend your desire for food if you went 40 days without it in the desert

[Leo Gura]

Keep in mind that guys have very different sex drives.

Those Zen monks got low testosterone. If they had a high sex drive they could not be monks.

So if you have high T, be careful trying to act like a monk. It will not work. A lot of monks are rather effeminate men.

You have to be honest with yourself about your sex drive and don't just blindly compare yourself to the likes of a 70 year old Eckhart Tolle.

[Random witch]

Any needs you have, emotional or physical needs, you should be aware to them and find ways to meet them in order to survive happily.

We are never going to be needles, as long as we exist in our physical form, no matter how mushroom we are going to take and how many God realizations we might have. 

I love Teal Swan's video about it:

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Random witch

[mandyjw]

Hmm.. "I need you as a stepping stone so I can climb the ladder to more important things." Doesn't really go over well. 

[Javfly33]

5 hours ago, Shin said:

Can 100% confirm this.

@bloomer It will only held you back, you have to take care of all of it.

That doesn't mean you can't tackle a bit the higher stuff, but it shouldn't be a priority most of the time if any.

Yes But the mindfuck is that sometimes you need the high stuff to keep yourself out of the ego/mind an actually do stuff.

So when people say "avoid Enlightment/spirituality" if you Dont have the básic needs met , is kinda meh.

Because to get things as job or sex, one of the biggest barriers is being extremely neurotic (Big ego) about It.

As always, you guys loved to do differences between spirituality Focus and material Focus, But they are not separate. You can avoid one withouth the other. 

[bloomer]

@ZenRising

7 hours ago, ZenRising said:

Maslow's hierarchy wasn't intended to be a rigid set of sequential categories... more a general nebulous framework... he himself talked about there being overlap and things not necessarily always being in sequence... so no, you don't have to have sex to self-sctualise, but mastering the part of yourself that limits you're ability to fulfil your sexual needs will be an important help in freeing up energy for the 'higher' pursuits...

It's seem though that to have a healthy sense of self respect that's required for self actualization means you need met your needs for love and belonging. 

@hyruga

7 hours ago, hyruga said:

On the contrary, it's clear from his writings that he did not view his hierarchy of needs like a video game-- as though you reach one level and then unlock the next level, never again returning to the "lower" levels. He made it quite clear that we are always going back and forth in the hierarchy, and we can target multiple needs at the same time.

That's an interesting way to look at the pyramid that I haven't heard of before.

@Leo Gura

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In practice you will be a broken man, held back by your basest cravings like an animal while acting all spiritual and too cool for sex.

Well aren't you a base animal if you're incapable of doing anything transcendent without having those cravings met?

@somegirl

5 hours ago, somegirl said:

@bloomer

That's like asking can you do spiritual stuff or achieve enlightment while starving. 

Well if you look at ascetics they literally starve themselves through fasting and deny themselves any sexual gratification. They're far more enlightened then me or some fat sex addict. 

@Shin

5 hours ago, Shin said:

Can 100% confirm this.

@bloomer It will only held you back, you have to take care of all of it.

That doesn't mean you can't tackle a bit the higher stuff, but it shouldn't be a priority most of the time if any.

What should be a priority? It just seems so petty that my wants are dominated by wanting to be seen as the cool guy or to get laid. 

@museumoftrees

5 hours ago, museumoftrees said:

You could probably transcend your desire for food if you went 40 days without it in the desert

Yeah once you've toppled over and died from heat stroke and starvation lol.

@Leo Gura

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Keep in mind that guys have very different sex drives.

Those Zen monks got low testosterone. If they had a high sex drive they could not be monks.

So if you have high T, be careful trying to act like a monk. It will not work. A lot of monks are rather effeminate men.

You have to be honest with yourself about your sex drive and don't just blindly compare yourself to the likes of a 70 year old Eckhart Tolle.

So the only way I can become enlightened is by being a low t pussy?

@Random witch

5 hours ago, Random witch said:

We are never going to be needles, as long as we exist in our physical form, no matter how mushroom we are going to take and how many God realizations we might have. 

Isn't asceticism all about overcoming your needs?

@mandyjw

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Hmm.. "I need you as a stepping stone so I can climb the ladder to more important things." Doesn't really go over well.

I don't think that would be a good pick up line. But honestly, I think I would be happy with just the stepping stone.

@Javfly33

11 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

So when people say "avoid Enlightment/spirituality" if you Dont have the básic needs met , is kinda meh.

meh

[bloomer]

Just now, bloomer said:

Well aren't you a base animal if you're incapable of doing anything transcendent without having those cravings met?

Point is when can you really say you're not just a base animal? 

[Nahm]

11 hours ago, bloomer said:

 Can you move up Maslow's Hierachy if you don't have sex? Can you move up Maslow's Hierachy if you're not loved? 

Yes & yes. 

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My minds becomes obsessed with sex, love, finding a woman and a sense of connection. If I don't get that does that mean I can't self actualize?

Without objectifying women, those (sex, love, finding a woman and a sense of connection) are all recognized as experience(s).  (Not things/objects you could get).  Self-actualization is of course not contingent upon what you get, nor is it exclusive such that anyone who hasn’t experienced or is incapable of experiencing sex, or is unloved in any way, is somehow ruled out, disbarred or prevented from self-actualization: “desire to become the most that one can be”. 

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Read someone that trying to skip steps on Maslow's Hierachy is what breeds mental illness.

Mental illness in this context turns out to be emotional suppression, and is unfortunately common to sexual, substance or spiritual bypassing of the foundations of the pyramid. Probably better to address prior to breeding, yes. 

Notice, you say the mind is obsessed with these experiences, and you also say you are not experiencing, these experiences. I propose what you are experiencing, are thoughts. If so, the mind is obsessed, with thoughts. Often referred to as thought attachment, and often remedied with daily meditation, expression, and emotional understanding. With that foundation in place, thoughts as presently experienced don’t even arise, and the experiences on the pyramid become doable and enjoyable, & much more. 

For one willing to notice one is focused upon unwanted, absence, avoidance or aversion… (“Can you move up Maslow's Hierachy if you don't have sex?”)… improv writing stands to be a simple & quick mindset and life changing experience. 

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Am I just stuck in the bottoms purgatory if I can't find a woman?

No. There’s a bunch of em down there too. 

Quote

Also sex is occasionally listed as a physiological need on some of the pyramids I've seen, why is this? 

Because different people create difference variations. 

[Yarco]

Watching porn is enough to trick your brain into thinking you're having sex.

You don't have to get love and belonging from a woman if you have a close enough connection with family and friends.

[something_else]

16 minutes ago, Yarco said:

Watching porn is enough to trick your brain into thinking you're having sex.

You don't have to get love and belonging from a woman if you have a close enough connection with family and friends.

Lol, maybe for some guys but I can 100% confirm this does not apply to me

Porn does not trick my brain into thinking I had sex, not even close really

It feels like a bandaid that makes sexual urges go away for half a day or so. Compare that to good sex which can clear my mind for a good couple weeks 

@bloomer Ultimately the work required to suppress sexual urges while doing spiritual work is gonna be much greater than the effort it takes to learn to attract girls. For most guys, anyway. 

The advice of "just ignore it and keep working on yourself" is really silly. You'll probably get more spiritual growth by facing all the fears and demons you have surrounding yourself and girls than you will with 10yrs of meditation

The hierarchy is not so rigid, but there is a truth to the idea of getting basic survival shit handled before you start on the really challenging stuff. No reason you can't do spiritual work while you're improving your ability to attract girls but don't completely ignore the latter

[Raze]

Gary Weber and Angelo DiLullo said they dissolved / reduced their sex drive after awakening.

[Jennjenn]

Choose one woman who you feel might like you and pursue her, chase her, treat her right, make her fall in love with you by figuring out how she likes to be treated. Once a woman is in love with you and you constantly make her orgasm, the oxytocin in her brain will provide infinite amounts of sex for you. 

[Leo Gura]

Never chase a woman you like.

[Jennjenn]

@Leo Gura why