"I" recognize what enlightenment is, ask me anything.

[Breakingthewall]

26 minutes ago, James123 said:

They are no losers, we are always what we are and therefore winners. 

sure sure, and a lot of love and all that. This is already clear, but I was asking you if you believe that a rabbit's mind is silent. Your answer is the one that Leo used to give as an evasive one: you are imagining the rabbit. good! But what's the point of that kind of dynamic? be the most awake? so that?

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

I was asking you if you believe that a rabbit's mind is silent. 

 

[James123]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

But what's the point of that kind of dynamic? be the most awake? so that?

Just explaining that what is enlightenment and our true nature. That's all brother. Moreover, I love to talk and share to you guys . That's all. 

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

 

The answer is that a rabbit's mind is empty of thought but full of fear, but that doesn't matter to James, he will constantly look for the formula to appear the most enlightened, it seems that that is very important to him. 

5 minutes ago, James123 said:

Just explaining that what is enlightenment and our true nature. That's all brother. Moreover, I love to talk and share to you guys . That's all. 

Yes , according to you enlightenment is a mind empty of thoughts, that's why I asked you that about the rabbit, but ok, all is clear

[TheSelf]

@Breakingthewall Enlightenment is not just empty mind, though less thoughts coud be consequence of that, though it doesn't matter, a lot of people could less verbal thinking kind of mind almost silent but they suffer and have no clue about their true nature, therefore not enlightened.

Enlightenment is when you see you are the eye to witness everything.

The very sun itself, you shine and things could apear before you, in your light.

Edited March 9 by m0hsen

[James123]

@Breakingthewall @m0hsen enlightenment is simply being where you already are, not even moved nor began.

[TheSelf]

@James123 but you see you've been always you, you can't change nor be less or more than what you've always been.

Edited March 9 by m0hsen

[James123]

@m0hsen definitely brother!!!

[Water by the River]

 

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

On 7.3.2024 at 11:35 AM, Water by the River said:

Your persistent inquiry, “What is it that hears?”

On 7.3.2024 at 2:55 AM, Inliytened1 said:

 

On 6.3.2024 at 11:40 PM, Inliytened1 said:

 

The thing is, how do you ask yourself that? Obviously not with the mind, because the mind is superficial. Then, without the mind no question could be done, just a movement could be done, the movement that penetrates, that opens. If the mind is asking: what is that hears? You are going to get a mental answer

Yes. Koans work "non-mental", both in working with them and answering them to a Zen Master. A mental "answer" is not an answer for a Koan.

If one goes with a mental answer (instead of a "hard" Awakened Nondual, or even enlightened state in this case as an answer) to the Zen Master, one gets a no no from the Roshi. The answer is given with ones whole Being. Something along the lines as you write, the movement that penetrates, that opens.

And if this Koan if applied to the very end, it can indeed "make one feel as if one has returned from the dead, and seen all Buddhas of the universe face-to-face".

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, m0hsen said:

@Breakingthewall Enlightenment is not just empty mind, though less thoughts coud be consequence of that, though it doesn't matter, a lot of people could less verbal thinking kind of mind almost silent but they suffer and have no clue about their true nature, therefore not enlightened.

Enlightenment is when you see you are the eye to witness everything.

The very sun itself, you shine and things could apear before you, in your light.

If you are the seeing eye, what do you see? Your dream that you create? This is not complete, is still duality, and a mistake. The eye appears when the object appears, because eye and object are one, so enlightenment is much more than understand that you are the existence itself, it's open yourself to what existence is. And it's not a dream that "you" create to experience love, there is no cause to the existence, the only cause is the absence of limitations, that is nothing 

[TheSelf]

48 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you are the seeing eye, what do you see? 

Myself, my being.

48 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

This is not complete, is still duality, and a mistake. The eye appears when the object appears

The mind looks for complexity and avoid the simple truth cause that's how it can survive the burning rays of it.

The eye doesn't appear or disappear, It's always there, you don't cease to exist in sleep or any other states.

48 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

it's open yourself to what existence is

I don't have such quality, I cannot open or close myself, I can only be myself, and be free.

See, the mind looks for understanding, learning, thinking,  contemplating etc, cause as long as these mental activities are there it survives the truth, you don't have to identify yourself with it,

I-Awareness really don't care about anything but to be myself like I always been, I'm free from anything you think I should care or look for, but the ego wants to understand everything cause it's the way it survives, if it calms down then it merges back to it's source, me.

Edited March 9 by m0hsen

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, m0hsen said:

The mind looks for complexity and avoid the simple truth cause that's how it can survive the burning rays of it.

Not. Complexity, depth . 

I understand that idea of enlightenment, Ralston, spira, etc. Identify yourself with existence, not with the psyche. That is the first step, after this comes mysticism, the non-conceptual understanding of what existence is, which is produced by opening to it. but it seems that for most people it is very important to think that they have arrived

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

Yes. Koans work "non-mental", both in working with them and answering them to a Zen Master. A mental "answer" is not an answer for a Koan.

If one goes with a mental answer (instead of a "hard" Awakened Nondual, or even enlightened state in this case as an answer) to the Zen Master, one gets a no no from the Roshi. The answer is given with ones whole Being. Something along the lines as you write, the movement that penetrates, that opens.

And if this Koan if applied to the very end, it can indeed "make one feel as if one has returned from the dead, and seen all Buddhas of the universe face-to-face".

 

 

Yes, it's interesting and possible, since there are mental formulas that can cause opening in a given moment.

But how do you give the answer to the Zen master when he asks you the sound of clapping with one hand? I can only think of one logical answer, applause is with two hands, therefore, what is the sound of something that does not exist?

[TheSelf]

29 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

after this

After this? Theres no after this! When you drop the identifications with the mind then you just remain as you are, 

Did you have any experience with it?

How one can possibly go through these, see the mind, their experience for what it actually is drop it and realize their true self as Awarness beyond the mind, still be interested to pursue anything further? And what that could be that would be superior or deeper than Awarness or reality itself?

So I'm asking you to see that the mind can only be interested to have fun pursuing mysticism, God, spiritual practices etc, when the identification drops or atleast weakens, All these spiritual egoic desires will be lost too.

Edited March 9 by m0hsen

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, m0hsen said:

realize their true self as Awarness beyond the mind

Because this is a limited realization. For me it is not difficult to silence the mind, without identification or meaning, silence. then you see yourself as the unchanging consciousness that witnesses. well, but this is not true opening, reality is not that, this is still limited and dual.

Reality is the absence of limits and this is the source from which reality flows. What you are is the source, and this source is the absence of limits, it is, so to speak, infinite living intelligence. There is no witness, the witness is created when existence arises, there is no creator, everything exists spontaneously, there is flow in forms, movement of intelligence. The perception of this is the opening that is sought, empty meditative states are necessary but limited, reality is more

[James123]

@m0hsen he won't understand that psychedelics are limited with mind and experience. Before he recognize. 

[Salvijus]

Are you one of those who think "I" doesn't exist? Neo advaita teachings etc. This whole teaching that "I" doesn't exist is actually false I would say. If you scrutinize this subject more carefully you would see: ego, I, self-grasping, fear are all synonymous.

You can't have fear without the "I" being there first to feel threatened. Hence, if there's even a speck of fear in your reality/mind/experience. Then there is still belief and investment in this "I". The source of all sense of insecurity, fear and lack. And so... If you follow the implications of the black sentence. You will see, to say "I doesn't exist" is incorrect.

Edited March 9 by Salvijus

[TheSelf]

55 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 meditative states are necessary but limited, reality is more

I'm talking about a realization in which you see your true nature as meditation, not something you do or achieve, states belong to ego, reality is beyond it.

[Salvijus]

9 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

If you follow the implications of the black sentence. You will see, to say "I doesn't exist" is incorrect.

Better yet.

1. Contemplate how fear arises. What causes it to arise. 

2. And contemplate if fear can exist if there is no sense of I.

3. And would there be any desire for self protection or self-preservation, self-grasping if there was no sense of I at all. 

Therein lies all the answers as to why "I doesn't exist" or "ego doesn't exist" is incorrect. 

Edited March 9 by Salvijus

[TheSelf]

57 minutes ago, James123 said:

@m0hsen he won't understand that psychedelics are limited with mind and experience. Before he recognize. 

It's actually hard to understand when you are still quite identified with your mind and heavily into spiritual concepts and theories, effort is needed here until you see yourself as effortless awareness to what is, then he will get it easily.

Edited March 9 by m0hsen