Does exercising really make you live longer?

[UnbornTao]

@Schizophonia Team sports are more fun and functional, multi-faceted.

Lifting weights isn't that much fun imo compared to soccer, etc. What you do is basically moving your arms up and down. It is comparatively simpler.

[Schizophonia]

25 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Schizophonia Team sports are more fun and functional, multi-faceted.

Lifting weights isn't that much fun imo compared to soccer, etc. What you do is basically moving your arms up and down. It is comparatively simpler.

spot on

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Horsecocking heavy weight is hella engaging. Wtf are you talking about?

 

 

 

No it's boring, even the guy in the second video is just suffering (stressing) and the first video is a compilation of guys raving about personal performances. Don't make me think they're like that most of the time.

Btw, be careful not to confuse bodybuilding and powerlifting.
Powerlifters want to be powerful, most of the time they have an abundance mentality, they are bon vivants.
The average bodybuilder is an orthorexic, generally traumatized by life who thinks that injecting trenbolone will make him attractive to women, it's just sad.

What's funny, however, is when I get criticized for advising really ugly guys (and therefore malformed, in fact) cosmetic surgery which could help change their lives for only a few thousand euros by guys who promote an orthorexic, stressful lifestyle for poor results.

 

Edited April 4 by Schizophonia

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Schizophonia Team sports are more fun and functional, multi-faceted.

Lifting weights isn't that much fun imo compared to soccer, etc. What you do is basically moving your arms up and down. It is comparatively simpler.

Meditation is one of the most engaging things I've ever engaged in, and it consists of moving as little as possible.

But sure, I agree that team sports is in some ways more engaging than some forms of weightlifting, but weightlifting is not 0% engagement/enjoyment. If it was, I wouldn't have been doing it non-stop for 10 years. And there are many exercises you can do that are not simple. For example, there is a reason why deadlifts is an infamous exercise for people doing it wrong.

The type of flow state I get into at the gym is unmatched by anything else. When you get really good at your routine, you become like a well-oiled machine: every exercise, every movement, every drink from the water bottle — all of it runs like clockwork. That is something you get less from team sports because it's less predictable, more probability for error, which can also be a source of frustration. Also, if you're really invested in the outcome of the game, winning or losing (or even the prospect of it) can be hugely stressful.

But we can spend hours over-analyzing these things for and against. It's clear that you can derive enjoyment from almost anything, as long as you're good at it.

 

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

No it's boring, even the guy in the second video is just suffering (stressing) and the first video is a compilation of guys raving about personal performances. Don't make me think they're like that most of the time.

"Just stressing" is just wrong. That's just psychotic. And I can assure you, Rick Bugez and Jujimufu are like that all the time ;D 

Btw, videos like this show how "working out" can blur the line with competitive (maybe not "team") sports (although here it's intentionally playful and creative):

 

Also, are you really saying only team sports is fun? What about non-team sports (which weightlifting is a part of by the way)? Why would top athletes spend their life getting good at something that is boring? Just because something is highly structured and "simple" (try doing snatch) like weightlifting doesn't mean it's not fun. People find golf fun for God's sake >:O

 

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Btw, be careful not to confuse bodybuilding and powerlifting.
Powerlifters want to be powerful, most of the time they have an abundance mentality, they are bon vivants.
The average bodybuilder is an orthorexic, generally traumatized by life who thinks that injecting trenbolone will make him attractive to women, it's just sad.

What about the average gym goer? (careful not to confuse going to the gym with bodybuilding )

Edited April 4 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

@Schizophonia

Also let me echo the CATS model mentioned a few pages earlier (and basically every modern model of stress worth their salt):

Truly harmful "stress" is largely dependent on cognitive appraisal (mental frame). So if you're in a "stressful" situation and you feel like you're coping, it's generally not going to lead to harmful stress. I'll give an example that is a bit more technical than the previously mentioned parachutist example, but I can't be asked to repeat it:

You put a cat in a box and expose it to a stimulus that causes pain if it doesn't move in time, effectively teaching the cat to avoid the stimulus. Over repeated exposures, as the avoidance behavior is mastered, the initial stress response gives way to a relaxed "coping" response. Crucially, it's not that the stress response first arises and then is replaced by the coping response as the avoidance behavior removes the cat from the stimulus. Rather, after mastery, the stress response never actually arises. 

So there is something within the cat that has changed how it interprets the otherwise stressful situation (cognitive appraisal). The same is true for anything else you might consider stressful, including working out while screaming your balls off. If you find working out to be stressful, maybe you're just not very good at it. Maybe you're just a pencil-necked individual (sorry, I love Bugezism ). 

Edited April 4 by Carl-Richard

[Nemra]

@Schizophonia

Years ago, I was fit compared to now. I was mostly doing push-ups, pull-ups, and other exercises using dumbbells. The feeling of being fit and strong and knowing that I can improve and be more fit and how much I could survive the pain was highly motivating and desirable.

[Schizophonia]

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Meditation is one of the most engaging things I've ever engaged in, and it consists of moving as little as possible.

Maybe this is the case for you and that's great, but most people don't like meditation because it's boring.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

But sure, I agree that team sports is in some ways more engaging than some forms of weightlifting, but weightlifting is not 0% engagement/enjoyment.

Fortunaly

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

If it was, I wouldn't have been doing it non-stop for 10 years.

Because you are neurotic or homosexual.
It's the same story as "I want a good physique for myself", as if anyone would want to look good on a desert island.
Well no, we want to be handsome to sleep with women, and possibly to integrate socially.

There's no point in bodybuilding when you can do something else except please.

Men would do better to focus on what really matters, namely vital energy.
Sorry to loop around on this lol, but it's the alpha and omega. A person with a strong metabolism will be naturally muscular, with good bones, a big beard, veiny arms, etc.
If you do weight training without a lot of vital energy, you will just exhaust yourself even more and look like a random but with a slightly better physique, still "soft" and weak in general.

Btw, without even cosmetic surgery, most men can improve their face as adults by taking large amounts of testosterone (leaving the aromatase!), or by cycling powerful steroids like 19nor.
Puberty never stops, only the growth plates calcify and prevent you from growing any further, and even then...

I dont recommand steroids at all, that say.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

And there are many exercises you can do that are not simple. For example, there is a reason why deadlifts is an infamous exercise for people doing it wrong.

This is one more reason not to do bodybuilding.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The type of flow state I get into at the gym is unmatched by anything else. When you get really good at your routine, you become like a well-oiled machine: every exercise, every movement, every drink from the water bottle — all of it runs like clockwork. That is something you get less from team sports because it's less predictable, more probability for error, which also can be a source of frustration.

Anything that takes you away from the problems of daily life, ruminations etc. will trigger the flow state.
When I was learning Python I had a state of flow, that doesn't mean that it's amazing to code and that it's the best thing to do.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Also, if you're really invested in the outcome of the game, winning or losing (or even the prospect of it) can be hugely stressful.

The important thing is not stress, it is the investment ratio and the gain in vital energy that you gain from this investment, against physiological stress.
Being competitive increases your metabolism and hormonal cascade through the roof, outweighing the effects of stress.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

But we can spend hours over-analyzing these things for and against. It's clear that you can derive enjoyment from almost anything, as long as you're good at it.

Yes

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

"Just stressing" is just wrong. That's just psychotic. And I can assure you, Rick Bugez and Jujimufu are like that all the time ;D 

Btw, videos like this show how "working out" can blur the line with competitive (maybe not "team") sports (although here it's intentionally playful and creative):

 

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Also, are you really only saying team sports is fun?

no

It's the firtst term who come to my mind, the point is that to my opinion sport would be a game, otherwise it would just be slavery.

You can be proud of your progress and your physics, but it's pretty small/mediocre, you get used to it and you actually can become dependant of your physics and become bigorexic.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What about non-team sports (which weightlifting is a part of by the way)? Why would top athletes spend their life getting good at something that is boring?

Because they are stuck in their loop at best out of habit, at worst because of neurosis.
People spend their lives wasting it for whatever reasons.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Just because something is highly structured and "simple" (try doing snatch) like weightlifting doesn't mean it's not fun. People find golf fun for gods sake >:O

Golf is not stressful or even physiologically dangerous.
It's boring yes lol, but it's good for old people or boring people in general.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What about the average gym goer?

Waste of time.

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

(careful not to confuse going to the gym with bodybuilding )

It's true.
Bodybuilding is even worse, people who think they are strong while they take drugs to get on stage like African-American slaves being sold to work in the cotton fields.

 

Excuse me if I seem hostile, it's not, you do what you want if it makes you happy 

 

All I wanted to say, even if I could qualify, is that most of the time it is more stressful than pleasant and that it is probably not the best solution for mental and physical health (and therefore the longitivity).

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Schizophonia said:

Because you are neurotic or homosexual.

Bro you're literally psychotic  I'm laughing too hard to be able to write a response.

[Schizophonia]

37 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Schizophonia

 

So there is something within the cat that has changed how it interprets the otherwise stressful situation (cognitive appraisal). The same is true for anything else you might consider stressful, including working out while screaming your balls off. If you find working out to be stressful, maybe you're just not very good at it. Maybe you're just a pencil-necked individual (sorry, I love Bugezism ). 

You don't understand, stress is not physical suffering.
Stress is the coping mechanism, to maintain blood sugar levels and possibly repair damage.
Even if you adapt to the pain, it doesn't change the stress.

14 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Schizophonia

Years ago, I was fit compared to now. I was mostly doing push-ups, pull-ups, and other exercises using dumbbells. The feeling of being fit and strong and knowing that I can improve and be more fit and how much I could survive the pain was highly motivating and desirable.

No one cares about your arms, it's not even something anyone will see most of the time.
It's an illusion, what matters is your look and your energy. 

[Schizophonia]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Bro you're literally psychotic  I'm laughing too hard to be able to write a response.

Why ?

What is the relationship between psychosis and the declaration that bodybuilding has little interest other than responding to insecurities, or preparing to get fucked in the onion ?

🤔

[Schizophonia]

Btw, I have nothing against homosexuals. In fact, in some cases I can be attracted to certain very specific phenotypes of guys, some people know.

mhh

Okay, I'll stop there.

[Nemra]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

No one cares about your arms

I know.

I did it for myself because I enjoyed being strong. You don't understand the feeling of it. You are doing it for its sake, for being and feeling strong. At least I think that way.

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Nemra said:

I know.

I did it for myself because I enjoyed being strong. You don't understand the feeling of it. You are doing it for its sake, for being and feeling strong. At least I think that way.

True strength is to be grounded and uninhibited, in other words not to identify excessively with the outside.

 

[Nemra]

@Schizophonia I'm talking about physical strength.

[UnbornTao]

My take wasn't meant to disparage weight lifting. I was pointing out that sports have a function that isn't just mechanically moving the body -- winning a game, throwing an opponent, etc. Whether it is sports, running, going to the gym, doing callisthenics, etc., enjoy them all.

"Does a sedentary lifestyle decrease your lifespan and overall health?"

Likely, to simplify, yes.

Edited June 12 by UnbornTao

[Schizophonia]

10 hours ago, Nemra said:

@Schizophonia I'm talking about physical strength.

The symbolism does not matter, it is relative and above all it is only what conditions the management of energies, in other words having a piece of protein a little larger and being able to supposedly lift things a little heavier has no meaning in absolute terms.
What you're really looking for in fine is the feeling of power you think it gives you, especially in terms of seduction (would you do the same thing on a desert island?).
Except that it's false, it will never make you STRONG but just possibly more anxious and therefore feminine again.
This is how you have bodybuilders, or simply "successful" men with mannered tendencies, masochistic fantasies etc, because no matter how strong they appear, they are mostly constantly stressed, so with a weak sense of self, and will seek the phallus outside, like a woman.

Edited April 5 by Schizophonia

[Applegarden8]

Yes, it does. In moderation which means more than 0 or irregular exercise. Long story short - the body is supposed to be used and will perform better if maintained and lubricated by the exercise.

You can also do exercise severely incorrectly, which is what you should avoid like not doing it after a meal, doing proper stretching, breathing correctly, having correct posture in whatever you are doing, not laying down or sitting right after exercise, not taking steroids, that kind of thing.

Edited April 24 by Applegarden8

[fopylo]

Guys let's stop debating these trash forms of exercise.

The true king of all is CALISTHENICS.

[Carl-Richard]

On 4.4.2024 at 11:23 PM, Schizophonia said:

Btw, I have nothing against homosexuals. In fact, in some cases I can be attracted to certain very specific phenotypes of guys, some people know.

mhh

Okay, I'll stop there.

Mmm, look at this beautiful "homosexual" bursting through his old plateaus (I'm making a joke, but his burning passion and emotional reaction is truly inspiring).

 

Edited June 12 by Carl-Richard

[integral]

On 2024-03-06 at 9:48 AM, Yousif said:

how does over using a thing makes it live longer ??

the logical answer would be, the more you use something the older it gets the sooner it will die

I’m specifically referring to the heart here,

sure exercise will protect your organs from diseases and make you more functional, this is not my point, get over this point,

 

My point is that the more you exercise the more your heart has to work which means it will age sooner than it should which means you’ll die age and die sooner.
 

there is no such a thing is reverse aging or making something work harder to live longer, this notion is not logical.

The logic is correct if you overwork it it ages faster but also if you under work it it ages faster, so you have to work it at a healthy level the way it was designed.

People don’t know where their limit is and how do you know if you cross the line into the overworked domain?

The system is built to work and it is in disfunction if it works too little or if it works too much.

if we somehow isolate the heart in a jar and just pump it non stop Will it age faster? Probably, maybe,  maybe not let’s experiment.

But you can definitely reverse ageing in the human body including the heart as long as the heart is still attached to the system.

how hard something is working is relative if you’re comatose in a bed Then your heart is not working very much but if you’re exercising very slightly then you’re working 10 times harder compared to the comatose person, In this relative situation working harder equals longevity.

So at the very least your logic doesn’t take into account relativity and is trying very hard to overgeneralize and reduce everything, ignore context ignore all systems and is attempting to conquer the universe with a general rule that applies with no exceptions.

Edited June 13 by integral

[integral]

On 2024-03-06 at 0:05 PM, Yousif said:

If you look at it purely logically, you’ll soon realize it doesn’t make any logical sense, our logic tells us the more we use something the faster it gets old or die.

Logic has anything to do with this statement. It’s not about logic it’s about you have a premise that the more something works the more it ages.

The issue with this is “what is work?” is gravity holding your body down a type of work a type of stress on your system? is that work bad or good? This is the main issues some work is good and some work is bad. Some stressors are good some stresses are bad. So the logical mistake is all work = bad. While in practice in the real world some stressors are good for you and a necessity and some stressors are not and contribute to age.

So now you need to revise the logic to remove that assumption.

Edited June 13 by integral