Does exercising really make you live longer?

[Yousif]

Working 100 hours a week tends to make you good amount of money, doesn’t mean it will make you rich. 

 

being healthy may make you reel good and energetic, doesn’t mean it will make you live longer.

 

stop taking these things as facts, no such a thing as a fact.

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I already said it tends, that’s not a fact, that’s a pattern that can be changed, also there’s million other factors you’re not considering that may actually prove that being healthy won’t let you live longer.

That answer makes 0 sense. You are changing what the question asked to you. You are not engageing with the question and evading a really easy straightforward answer.

If everything else equal obviously a more healthy person will live longer. "yeah but you are not considering a trillion other things" the hypothetical accounts for all those things you are just not understanding it. Thats what all else being equal mean you take into account infinite variables except health and compare less health to more health. A very easy question you are just evading it.

Edited April 1 by zurew

[Yousif]

4 minutes ago, zurew said:

That answer makes 0 sense. You are changing what the question asked to you. You are not engageing with the question and evading a really easy straightforward answer.

If everything else equal obviously a more healthy person will live longer. "yeah but you are not considering a trillion other things" the hypothetical accounts for all those things you are just not understanding it. Thats what all else being equal mean you take into account infinite variables except health and compare less health to more health. A very easy question you are just evading it.

Stop stepping out of reality everything else cannot be equal, stop imagining unrealistic scenarios, 

 

and I already said that it tends to make you live longer, which is the same thing as “ all things being equal a more healthy person will live longer “ .

[zurew]

4 minutes ago, Yousif said:

Stop stepping out of reality everything else cannot be equal, stop imagining unrealistic scenarios, 

We will get back to reality , first we has to establish the goalpost and we have to establish whether you can engage honestly with hypotheticals without evading them.

We are going step by step.

Edited April 1 by zurew

[zurew]

4 minutes ago, Yousif said:

and I already said that it tends to make you live longer, which is the same thing as “ all things being equal a more healthy person will live longer “

good, thats something tangible that can be worked with

[zurew]

Now the next step is you giving a definition for what you mean by healthy or more healthy.

[Yousif]

18 minutes ago, zurew said:

We will get back to reality , first we has to establish the goalpost and we have to establish whether you can engage honestly with hypotheticals without evading them.

We are going step by step.

I didn’t know this post was about evaluating me as a scientist.

[zurew]

5 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I didn’t know this post was about evaluating me as a scientist.

We can talk about the value of unrealistic hypotheticals if you want to.

Btw I find it funny that on a highly philosophical forum, people have problem with unrealistic hypotheticals. Engineers and scientific people in general tend to evade certain hypotheticals, because they either don't see value in it or how it connects back to the discussion at hand or they literally cant go to that level of abstraction.

Edited April 1 by zurew

[Yousif]

Just now, zurew said:

We can talk about the value of unrealistic hypotheticals if you want to.

Ig anything can be looked at is valuable or not, that’s off topic, you still cannot say that being healthy will make you live longer, because things will not be all equal, how hard is it to admit it?

[zurew]

39 minutes ago, Yousif said:

you still cannot say that being healthy will make you live longer, because things will not be all equal, how hard is it to admit it?

I can grant that, but thats not the granting you think it is.

There is already a premise that built in your question that I and most people and if you are honest with yourself - you reject as well. The premise being that you have to be 100% certain in your conclusion .- you don't have to - there is evidence that can be gathered that can elevate a hypothesis probability of being true.

So the point is, that you can elevate the probability of this premise  'being healthy will make you live longer compared to if you are less healthy' being true with certain studies, without needing to reach 100% confidence in the conclusion.

You can pretend to be the ultimate skeptic here, but then the best you can achieve with that is that you are completely agnostic about every empirical question.  Which would mean that all of you specualtions are completely undermined as well and you cannot make any positive or negative statement about any empirical matter at all. But obviously you don't believe in that, hence why you made this whole thread.

Edited April 1 by zurew

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, Yousif said:

tell me, doesn’t relativity mean that everything is relative and nothing is actually a fact, why do you take the stance of having empirical facts then?

 

you literally cannot say something is one thing over its opposite, this is the real world, you cannot say health will make you live longer, even if you take data and measure lifespans of all people, still all you have is a pattern, you do not have a fact, there literally is no such a thing as a fact in the real world.

Yes. Reality is entirely made up of patterns and cycles, the more you understand them, the more you can predict reality and succeed in life. Health is one factor in a long life, that's so basic it's why i've stuck around here arguing it from 10 different angles. 

There are no guarantees in anything. No absolutes. There are just patterns, cycles, and sometimes deviations that become the new pattern.

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Yousif said:

Go back in this post and read what I said, 

how does over working your heart makes you live longer? 
how does over using something makes it newer or last longer? 
 

doesn’t seem logical, and yet all your science and empirical data is based on logic,

What does "over working your heart" mean? Elevated heart rate? If so, how elevated? And for how long? The problem is that you're not quantifying your statements, so they don't mean much.

"Doesn't seem logical" is only a feeling you have. It's not an argument.

 

5 hours ago, Yousif said:

I again made a point that sure, you’ll get to a resting heart rate of 50 bpm, but that’s after you’ve already exhausted yourself in exercising, and also if you’re really that athletic to the point of your resting heart rate comes down to 50 bpm, you tend to be a monkey and unable to rest, you’re basically addicted to being active, which means you’ll end up over using your heart which means you’ll not be living longer.

Again, your statements don't mean much when you don't provide quantities, numbers, statistics. For example, "drinking water is lethal" can be a true statement when you add a clarification about the lethal dose (6 liters in 3 hours), but on its own, it's not necessarily true.

Exhaustion is not a problem if you rest at the point of exhaustion.

If top athletes were unable to rest, they would probably be dead with the amount of strain they put themselves through.

Edited April 1 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Yousif said:

That’s completely relative and subjective, which is why there’s no such a thing as empirical facts, 

you can study 50 or 100 people and come up with an answer, doesn’t mean it will work on everyone with different backgrounds ang genetics. 

What I meant by empirical fact is just a piece of information that you've gathered from observation. I was not implying that an empirical fact is an undeniable truth. Empirical facts are probabilistic (except the fact of existence itself). Anyways, I'm more concerned about your lack of statistics.

 

5 hours ago, Yousif said:

This is why science is stage orange and low consciousness, they look at the problem linearly and not holistically, and they don’t not consider all the factors, 

I don't consider a perspective that excludes basic scientific observations very holistic, but you do you. Which factors?

 

5 hours ago, Yousif said:

a wild child is more likely to hit his head and die then a lazy child, even tho the wild one is way healthier and fitter.

That's stage Purple reasoning at most. How much more likely is a wild child to die than a lazy child?

 

4 hours ago, Yousif said:

tell me, doesn’t relativity mean that everything is relative and nothing is actually a fact, why do you take the stance of having empirical facts then?

So longevity is the same as non-longevity? Yay, now I can work out as much as I want.

Edited April 1 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

anything that is not running marathons or half-marathons regularly, or the proportionally the same to people that do strength training

I could agree with that if "regularly" implies the type of numbers I've discussed above.

[Yousif]

5 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Yes. Reality is entirely made up of patterns and cycles, the more you understand them, the more you can predict reality and succeed in life. Health is one factor in a long life, that's so basic it's why i've stuck around here arguing it from 10 different angles. 

There are no guarantees in anything. No absolutes. There are just patterns, cycles, and sometimes deviations that become the new pattern.

And I said yes, health (tends)to make you live longer, the original point was whether or not exercising will make that for you, and then we made the point of okay moderate exercise maybe, not too much not too little.

 

[Yousif]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

That's stage Purple reasoning at most. How much more likely is a wild child to die than a lazy child?

When I do it it’s stage purple, when science does it it’s an empirical fact. 
 

it’s basic logic really, and it was an example to get you out of your linear thinking, I forget not everyone is capable of that.

[Carl-Richard]

50 minutes ago, Yousif said:

When I do it it’s stage purple, when science does it it’s an empirical fact. 

It was partially tongue in cheek. I would be hard-pressed to ever use Spiral Dynamics as an ad hominem in any serious way in any discussion.

 

50 minutes ago, Yousif said:

it’s basic logic really, and it was an example to get you out of your linear thinking, I forget not everyone is capable of that.

If anything, refusing to quantify your statements (which would introduce some nuance to your statements) would be considered more "linear" than the alternative.

Edited April 1 by Carl-Richard

[Rigel]

Exercise makes you more alive right now

[Yousif]

9 hours ago, Rigel said:

Exercise makes you more alive right now

Agreed, training for both body and mind is essential for health and functionality.

[Yousif]

3 hours ago, Optimized Life said:

Exercising like jogging, playing sports or lifting some weight makes you feel better mentally physically AND it doesnt present many concerning side  and risks unlike "Nootropics" most drugs and even many "healthy" foods like caffeine. 

especially sports if you combine exercize with social connection then vahalaha inshallah now that's very healthy. 

Of all the things that you shouldn't over think or worry about , it's definitely exercise. 

Shut your fuck up and go work out, every fucking day. 

This thread is pointless. 

You're talking about living longer but you're wasting your finite time discussing this shit back and forth, debating? You guys aren't serious about life, just wasting it. Stop. 

Aren’t you wasting your time lecturing us sir optimized life? @Optimized Life