Does exercising really make you live longer?

[Yousif]

18 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Ofcourse. Diet is a paramount component of a healthy body. 

That is debatable. For example being skiny with a low BMI does protect you more from things like cancer and heart disease (to some extend)  but makes you more prone to osteoporosis. After the age of 65, about 20-25% of people who fall and break a loading hip or a loading bone die in the hospital. Of those who make it out of hospital (often resulting in major loss of muscle mass and further loss of bone mass) about third die within 12 months as a consequence of prolonged immobiity, infection or heart problems.

Of all those who make it past year 1, almost 100% will suffer chronic consequences such as limping, pain and higher risk of infection, falling and another fracture. 

Falling and breaking a hip is one of the most common ways to die after 65. And the main risk factor for osteoporosis besides being female, old or postmenopausal is low body weight. 

 

That’s off my point, you guys keep going broad and ignore going deep, 

how does over using a thing like your heart make it last longer?

 

things age the more you use them, and rust if you don’t use them at all, which means that yes its unhealthy to not do any activity , but the other extreme would be athleticism will equally make you die faster.

Edited March 6 by Yousif

[Michael569]

40 minutes ago, undeather said:

Adjusted HR 5.04 Low vs Elite V02 Max fuuuuuuck !! . That is absolutely insane, I've not seen this stat before. What constitutes low and what constitutes elite? Also what constitutes High & Average in this chart. 

is this for ACM? 

Edited March 6 by Michael569

[Yousif]

50 minutes ago, undeather said:

Let's also add to that that VO2-max, which is only increased through regular exercise, is one of the best predictors of longevity.
Even if you go from being low to being below average is a 50% reduction in mortality over a decade.
If you then go from low to above average, it’s about a 60% or 70% reduction in mortality.

So even if you are skinny with a perfect diet, you will clearly increase lifespan & quality of life through moderate exercise.

 

We already get enough exercise from :- 

walking 

carrying groceries 

standing

Various social activities

the problem with most people today is high diet foods, but this is off topic. 
 

I’m asking you one simple question and if you can’t answer it please stop responding to this post, I want a simple logical answer to my simple logical question 

 

how does over using a thing makes it live longer ??

the logical answer would be, the more you use something the older it gets the sooner it will die

I’m specifically referring to the heart here,

sure exercise will protect your organs from diseases and make you more functional, this is not my point, get over this point,

 

My point is that the more you exercise the more your heart has to work which means it will age sooner than it should which means you’ll die age and die sooner.
 

there is no such a thing is reverse aging or making something work harder to live longer, this notion is not logical.

 

 

[Yousif]

I’m not loyal to logic

 

But science in its current form is , so I’m just using their language so we can understand each other

 

if you have an illogical explanation of why over using something makes it last longer by all means go ahead, enlighten me

[undeather]

19 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Adjusted HR 5.04 Low vs Elite V02 Max fuuuuuuck !! . That is absolutely insane, I've not seen this stat before. What constitutes low and what constitutes elite? Also what constitutes High & Average in this chart. 

is this for ACM? 

Elite = 2 SD(standard deviations) above average -> so 97.7th and above percentile of cardiorespiratory fitness (measured on a treadmill)
High = 75th - 97.6th percentile
Above Average = 50th -75th percentile
Below average = 25 - 49th percentile
Low= 25th percentile and below

Yes, it's risk adjusted ACM
Here is the study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2707428

[Yousif]

The question still stands 

how does over using something make it live longer?

If you don’t have a logical answer with words, not graphs or weird terminology that no one knows about,

Please , stop replying to this post.

[undeather]

54 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I’m not loyal to logic

 

But science in its current form is , so I’m just using their language so we can understand each other

 

if you have an illogical explanation of why over using something makes it last longer by all means go ahead, enlighten me

Your underlying misunderstanding lies in the assumption that biological systems deteriorate in the same manner as mechanical ones do. Contrary to the notion that the heart succumbs to wear and tear like a vehicle reaching its mileage limit, the biological reality operates on a fundamentally different premise.

Consider a theoretical exploration involving identical twins, indistinguishable in DNA, upbringing, and lifestyle, adhering to an identical diet throughout their lives. Imagine that at the age of ten, one twin—whom we'll name John—begins a regimen of regular exercise, while his brother James leads a sedentary lifestyle. Fast forward to their 70th birthday, and following a celebration, they subject themselves to an advanced heart health assessment in a clinic equipped with futuristic technology. Despite both hearts being chronologically aged at 70 years, John's heart demonstrates markedly superior efficiency in blood circulation. Not only does it appear more youthful via ultrasound, but it excels across every metric evaluated.

Curious about these discrepancies, they undergo a heart biopsy for a closer examination at the cellular level. Under the scrutiny of the microscope, the differences become starkly apparent. John's cardiac cells exhibit enhanced resilience against the degenerative forces that besiege us all as we age. This resilience is evident in the diminished susceptibility to free radical damage, the upregulation of epigenetic markers boosting mitochondrial energy production, improved lysosomal degradation, and elongated telomeres indicating a greater capacity for cell division. Furthermore, John's consistent physical activity has augmented his VO2 max, optimizing oxygen delivery to his cells and amplifying their adaptive responses.

James, in a moment of revelation, exclaims, "AHHHH!!!" He finally understands that the heart is not akin to a car. This moment underscores a crucial insight: living organisms are comprised of cells—entities capable of division and complex self-renewal, allowing our bodies to repair and fortify themselves against a multitude of challenges. We even have some special kind of cells, called stemcells - which under certain circumstance can produce new tissue ad infinitum. Thus, the aging of biological systems cannot be simplified to mere temporal strain. It is a profoundly intricate process, far surpassing any mechanical analogy.

This complex dynamic makes it possible that an biological system which objectively went through more "movement"/"effort" or "strain" can be biologically younger and healthier than a sedentary counterpart.

Edited March 6 by undeather

[Yousif]

18 minutes ago, undeather said:

Your underlying misunderstanding lies in the assumption that biological systems deteriorate in the same manner as mechanical ones do. Contrary to the notion that the heart succumbs to wear and tear like a vehicle reaching its mileage limit, the biological reality operates on a fundamentally different premise.

Consider a theoretical exploration involving identical twins, indistinguishable in DNA, upbringing, and lifestyle, adhering to an identical diet throughout their lives. Imagine that at the age of ten, one twin—whom we'll name John—begins a regimen of regular exercise, while his brother James leads a sedentary lifestyle. Fast forward to their 70th birthday, and following a celebration, they subject themselves to an advanced heart health assessment in a clinic equipped with futuristic technology. Despite both hearts being chronologically aged at 70 years, John's heart demonstrates markedly superior efficiency in blood circulation. Not only does it appear more youthful via ultrasound, but it excels across every metric evaluated.

Curious about these discrepancies, they undergo a heart biopsy for a closer examination at the cellular level. Under the scrutiny of the microscope, the differences become starkly apparent. John's cardiac cells exhibit enhanced resilience against the degenerative forces that besiege us all as we age. This resilience is evident in the diminished susceptibility to free radical damage, the upregulation of epigenetic markers boosting mitochondrial energy production, improved lysosomal degradation, and elongated telomeres indicating a greater capacity for cell division. Furthermore, John's consistent physical activity has augmented his VO2 max, optimizing oxygen delivery to his cells and amplifying their adaptive responses.

James, in a moment of revelation, exclaims, "AHHHH!!!" He finally understands that the heart is not akin to a car. This moment underscores a crucial insight: living organisms are comprised of cells—entities capable of division and complex self-renewal, allowing our bodies to repair and fortify themselves against a multitude of challenges. We even have some special kind of cells, called stemcells - which under certain circumstance can produce new tissue ad infinitum. Thus, the aging of biological systems cannot be simplified to mere temporal strain. It is a profoundly intricate process, far surpassing any mechanical analogy.

 

The matter is simple, you really don’t need all these graphs or paragraphs, I already said the point that the system will be more efficient is valid, but

my question is how does over using your heart make it live longer??

to answer that question we have to know what aging is, what causes something to age faster?

It’s not time, because time doesn’t exist in the real world 

what makes someone/ something age is the amount of work and energy it has expenditured,

If you compare a celebrity with a normal person that’s been working physical jobs his whole life, even tho they’re both 50 years old, the guy that doe’s physical labor looks 75 while the celebrity looks 30, 

 

and I know you’re gonna say oh that’s just stress and lifestyle, and diet

but the truth is the person that puts out more energy is the one that’s gonna age faster.

 

ALSO, stop assuming you can’t compare a living organic being to a mechanical machine. After all we’re all made of the same atoms according to science. 
 

 

 

Edited March 6 by Yousif

[undeather]

Well, I tried.
Good luck with your life, Yousif! 

[Yousif]

19 minutes ago, undeather said:

Well, I tried.
Good luck with your life, Yousif! 

Good luck to you as well.

[Princess Arabia]

Everything is designed specifically to accomplish or do specific things which in turn require different maintenance. The human body was designed to move. You cannot compare a drinking glass to a human body in this regard. Does a glass have a heart or kidneys or lungs. 

Exercise can extend your years because you are caring for specific body parts and those require a certain level of optimization to function properly and can wear down causing the speed up of entropy which is responsible for aging. The cells have telomeres which gets shorter and shorter and they have a shelf life depending on the pace at which these telomeres shorten and probably slows down if we treat the body in a healthy way.  You cannot compare humans to even tigers to turtles nor turtles to tigers because of how they are designed; and each is specifically designed for it's respective survival.

In general, moderate exercise can optimize the body's capabilities which in turn allow it to do it's job more effectively. What exercises you do will determine it's optimization and some exercises are more beneficial than some depending on your aim. Overall, it is good practice in addition to a healthy lifestyle for living a healthier life. You can get run over by a truck while doing all these things, so it is not a prerequisite for living longer on its own, but it surely helps to ward off certain cardiovascular ailments and degenerative diseases that can bring on pre-mature death.

[Princess Arabia]

55 minutes ago, Yousif said:

my question is how does over using your heart make it live longer??

When you take care of the heart by exercising it or eating the proper heart-healthy foods, the heart is not being over-used, it is being optimized - there's a difference. 

[Princess Arabia]

The way that something gets overused is if something else is being underused and that thing has to kick in to make up for what that underused thing was supposed to be doing in the first place. I'm referring to body parts in the human systems.

[Yousif]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

When you take care of the heart by exercising it or eating the proper heart-healthy foods, the heart is not being over-used, it is being optimized - there's a difference. 

This is like the 3rd time I say that this point is valid, but my point or question was, how does overusing something makes it live longer? Is that logical?

If you look at it purely logically, you’ll soon realize it doesn’t make any logical sense, our logic tells us the more we use something the faster it gets old or die.

 

there might be an illogical answer to this, I’m not really sure.

 

I’m not loyal to logic, scientists and our current systems are.

if there’s in illogical answer, I don’t know how we’re still defending and are loyal to logic and science as it is done today.

Edited March 6 by Yousif

[ZenAlex]

The body is designed to move, but I think it's about knowing at what point exercise is benefiting you and making you feel better and at what point the amount of exercise you're doing is no longer going to lead to any health benefits but merely place more stress on the body and your body will simply adapt to it.

I do think that exercise beyond a certain point could age you prematurely because intense exercise can increase cortisol  and stress ages people.

The only thing I'd say is listen to your body. Exercise to a certain degree can make you feel better. Sedentary lifestyles are proven to be unhealthy. So it's about finding the middle ground between unecesssary wear and tear levels so stressful exercise and sedentary.

[Yousif]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

The way that something gets overused is if something else is being underused and that thing has to kick in to make up for what that underused thing was supposed to be doing in the first place. I'm referring to body parts in the human systems.

I’m referring to one specific organ which is the heart, what science says is, the more you exercise, the more it’s efficient, which I agree, but I don’t agree that over using it will make you live longer, and yes professional athletes are overusing their heart , I could be wrong  , but if I am wrong, the answer would have to be illogical, because strictly looking at it logically it’s impossible for something to get better over time by using it more, 

compare anything in the universe, give me one logical explanation of anything living or non living that, the more you use it, the newer it gets.

Edited March 6 by Yousif

[Yousif]

2 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I’m referring to one specific organ which is the heart, what science says is, the more you exercise, the more it’s efficient, which I agree, but I don’t agree that over using it will make you live longer, and yes professional athletes are overusing their heart , I could be wrong , but if I am wrong, the answer would have to be illogical, because strictly looking at it logically it’s impossible for something to get better over time by using it more, 

compare anything in the universe, give me one logical explanation of anything living or non living that, the more you use it, the newer it gets.

 

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I’m referring to one specific organ which is the heart, what science says is, the more you exercise, the more it’s efficient, which I agree, but I don’t agree that over using it will make you live longer, and yes professional athletes are overusing, I could be wrong , but if I am wrong, the answer would have to be illogical, because strictly looking at it logically it’s impossible for something to get better over time by using it more, 

compare anything in the universe, give me one logical explanation of anything living or non living that, the more you use it, the newer it gets.

You are right in the sense if you over-use the heart it will put strain on it and cause it to burn out quicker. That's why they have heart-monitors on exercise machines. I don't think scientists are saying if you OVERUSE the heart, you will live longer, that's how you're interpreting what they're saying.

Edited March 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Yousif said:

compare anything in the universe, give me one logical explanation of anything living or non living that, the more you use it, the newer it gets.

Idk, maybe the brain.

[Yousif]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You are right in the sense if you over-use the heart it will put strain on it and cause it to burn out quicker. That's why they gave heart-monitors on exercise machines. I don't think scientists are saying if you OVERUSE the heart, you will live longer, that's how you're interpreting what they're saying.

They do say that being athletic will make you live longer. 
 

look up how to live longer, any doctor or scientist Will tell you to be more athletic and that athleticism is healthy

Edited March 6 by Yousif