Does exercising really make you live longer?

[Yousif]

I’ve been meditating more than usual, so I’m more awake on a daily basis, I also am a gym rat and I workout 5 times a week, so today as I’ve arrived at my gym I remembered how a lot of scientists and even doctors tell you that if you stay active you’ll be healthier and live longer, 

Now I don’t have an issue with “ being healthier “ even tho that claim is still up for furthering questioning, but live longer????!!!

 

I mean think about it logically, how does overusing a think makes it last longer? 
 

To better see this picture clearly, just think of any living or non-living thing that lasts longer and ask yourself how is it that this thing is able to be preserved for that long?? 
 

here’s an example in which I typed in a hurry because I gotta finish my workout 😆😂

[undeather]

The answer is unequivocally - YES! 
Longevity, both through lifespan and healthspan, is impacted more through exercise than any of the other behavioural variable we have.

Your comparisons are flawed. There is (at least) one huge difference between machines and the human body - and that's the wonder of hormesis in adaptive or complex systems. While you car breaks down due to a buildup of mechanical strains over a long period of time - the biological organism has the propensity to build itself back stronger once challenged in a meaningful way. Your immune system get's more resistant  and more capable once it comes into contact a wide variety of pathogens. Children who grow up in rural-regions with a wider variety of microbe-density tend get less autoimmune issues and a more specific immune-response once invaded with a novel pathogen. Lifting weights or combat sports will increase bone-density and musculo-fascial integrity - therefore making the person more reistant to mechanical injuries. Muscle muss increases by damaging your tissue first - which then will adaptively get build back stronger - more muscle-mass means more compensation for blood sugar control. By raising your pulse & blood pressure through exercise, your arteries will increase their compensatory threshhold through a better NO2-signaling and many other mechanisms. Your heart muscles efficiency will improve. Your blood will improve it's capacity to carry oxygen and....and...and!

Do you see what I am hinting at?
Your comparison between lions and turtles also does not work. You just can't compare 2 species with a completely different genetic make-up. The bowhead whale who basically swims around all day gets up to 200 years old, while sloth who chills out usually only gets around 20 years. It doesn't make sense.  

[Yousif]

38 minutes ago, undeather said:

. The bowhead whale who basically swims around all day gets up to 200 years old, while sloth who chills out usually only gets around 20 years. It doesn't make sense.  

Sloth gets about 43 years according to google, he’s relatively active compared to a turtle or to a whale who just lets the water carry him and just opens his mouth to get food, and barely faces and danger that makes it get more active, that’s one point, I don’t really care about genetics, science only measures and identifies genetics but they don’t even know what genetics are, if you observe and living thing or thing, you’ll realize that slow or barely active things lasts longer, look at a fly and it’s lifespan compared to a turtle, it’s the intensity that matters.

 

 

 

[Michael569]

@Yousif why not put it to the test. Stop all forms of exercise,and see how you feel 3 months from now

[Yousif]

49 minutes ago, undeather said:

Your immune system get's more resistant  and more capable once it comes into contact a wide variety of pathogens. Children who grow up in rural-regions with a wider variety of microbe-density tend get less autoimmune issues and a more specific immune-response once invaded with a novel pathogen. Lifting weights or combat sports will increase bone-density and musculo-fascial integrity - therefore making the person more reistant to mechanical injuries. Muscle muss increases by damaging your tissue first - which then will adaptively get build back stronger - more muscle-mass means more compensation for blood sugar control. By raising your pulse & blood pressure through exercise, your arteries will increase their compensatory threshhold through a better NO2-signaling and many other mechanisms. Your heart muscles efficiency will improve. Your blood will improve it's capacity to carry oxygen and....and...and!
 

Yes, I work out, I get stronger, more blood flow, and more of all the good stuff, that doesn’t mean I will live longer, the more active a thing whether living or non living, the shorter it’s lifespan, this is a metaphysical pattern. 
 

and who said you can’t compare a car or a tree to other things?? Aren’t we all made of the same atoms?? 

[Yousif]

28 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

@Yousif why not put it to the test. Stop all forms of exercise,and see how you feel 3 months from now

How you feel doesn’t matter, that doesn’t disprove my claim, there are many variables at play.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif

[Yousif]

Ask yourself, why does calorie intake greatly affects your life span, because the more you eat the more energy you burn, the more mass you accumulates, the more activity of the heart is required, the more active it is the faster it ages even if it’s strong 

and the more active a thing is the shorter its life span.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif

[undeather]

So, there are 2 possibilites here:

Taking your proposition seriously would mean we were to negate everything we have scientifically discovered about biology, the human body, evolution, and life itself, it would imply a complete reversal of understanding, challenging the accumulated knowledge contributed by millions of brilliant minds throughout history. This encompasses the insights of exceptional individuals, the foundational paradigms established over centuries, and the intuitive understandings shared by the vast majority of humanity, spanning back to ancient times - making you the single greatest genius who ever lived.

or...

You are a random dude trying to make a cool, heterodox argument which fails the simplest logic and scrutiny.

I will let others decide

Edited March 6, 2024 by undeather

[Yousif]

1 minute ago, undeather said:

So, there are 2 possibilites here:

If we were to negate everything we have scientifically discovered about biology, the human body, evolution, and life itself, it would imply a complete reversal of understanding, challenging the accumulated knowledge contributed by millions of brilliant minds throughout history. This encompasses the insights of exceptional individuals, the foundational paradigms established over centuries, and the intuitive understandings shared by the vast majority of humanity, spanning back to ancient times - making you the single greatest genius who ever lived.

or...

You are a random dude trying to make a cool, heterodox argument which fails the simplest logic and scrutiny.

you can ignore thousands of years of war and conflict over god and religion and all the people that died for that cause because some scientist said “ ohh, well prove to me that god exist “ just to look smart.

it goes both ways my guy, 

It doesn’t matter how many people worked for something, what I care about is the truth of the matter, 

 

don’t attack the messenger, if you can’t disprove my point, you don’t have to reply.

[Yousif]

.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif

[Yousif]

12 minutes ago, undeather said:

You are a random dude trying to make a cool, heterodox argument which fails the simplest logic and scrutiny.

This has nothing to do with me, I’m not so needy to post something in a random forum to strangers whom I’ll probably never meet just to look cool, I’m here to discuss points and truth, it’s impersonal to me, you’re the one that keeps making thing’s personal and keep attacking people whenever they make a point that you can’t disprove,

 

once they put you on the spot and call you on your bullshit, once they find out that you’re guilty, you start attacking, this is what happens to you whenever I post or comment on here.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif

[undeather]

Quote

I’m here to discuss points and truth

My friend, it's truly virtuous to question or even reconsider our most basic assumptions about life & the universe.
Because truth is that we picked up most of our frameworks unconciously.

But there is a fine line between radical open mindedness and being so open minded that your brain falls out.
Some questions aren't worth your time—especially when they're based on a shaky foundation of gobbledygook.
If you care about the truth in this matter, then go spend some time on basic biology. Start with real not knowing.
Then you will also start recognizing how naive your arguments actually are.

It's amusing—this could have sparked an intriguing debate, had you phrased your question differently
Because, as you propably don't know, there seems to be a treshhold effect when it comes to exercise:

Edited March 6, 2024 by undeather

[Yousif]

10 minutes ago, undeather said:

My friend, it's truly virtuous to question or even reconsider our most basic assumptions about life & the universe.
Because truth is that we picked up most of our frameworks unconciously.

But there is a fine line between radical open mindedness and being so open minded that your brain falls out.
Some questions aren't worth your time—especially when they're based on a shaky foundation of gobbledygook.
If you care about the truth in this matter, then go spend some time on basic biology. Start with real not knowing.
Then you will also start recognizing how naive your arguments actually are.

It's amusing—this could have sparked an intriguing debate, had you phrased your question differently
Because, as you propably don't know, there seems to be a treshhold effect when it comes to exercise:

Nice graph,

although it doesn’t say anything, 

I just asked a simple Logical question,

how does over using a thing make it last longer?

you claim to be logical, if you are, answer this simple question with LOGIC. 
 

You don’t have to use fancy words or fancy graphs just to look like you know what you’re talking about.

 

[Yousif]

@undeather what you’re trying to say that is that your body or the thing becomes stronger and more efficient with exercise and I agree on that point like I said above,

 

but that comes with a cost, and the cost is due to everything working so efficiently, even tho the body might not die from a disease, nevertheless it will age faster, and that’s the point I’m trying to make, if you overuse it, it will die sooner, maybe not from disease, but from overuse and old age.

 

 

[Michael569]

@Yousif Don't forget that the rest of your body suffers wear & tear as much as your muskuloskeletal system does. 

Let's take an example of a person who does not exercise and they end up with hypertension (high blood pressure). Because their heart has to work harder all the time, there is more sheer pressure on the lining of their arteries and this is causing progressive damage which leads to inflammation and a deposition of a plaque (complex topic simplified). 

On the other hand, you have a very active individual with normal blood pressure in whom this is not happening but yes, his joints are under more wear & tear and he might need surgery in his 50s or 60s for knee or pelvic joint. 

Maybe the argument should be - which poison are you going to choose? Would you rather that your heart and vascular system works extra hard or that your mobility aparatus does. Which one is easier to reverse and repair? Which one will kill you faster? 

What @undeather is saying is that exercise won't necessarily make you live longer (it might) but it slows down the first onset of health problems and helps you age better without less pain and less disease 

Edited March 6, 2024 by Michael569

[Yousif]

One of the most concerning thing about how science is done today is that they think in a linear/broad fashion, and they ignore the aspect of depth , let alone get to a point of merging the broad with the deep to get into the 3rd dimension which is where non-duality starts to become a reality for them.

[Yousif]

2 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

@Yousif Don't forget that the rest of your body suffers wear & tear as much as your muskuloskeletal system does. 

Let's take an example of a person who does not exercise and they end up with hypertension (high blood pressure). Because their heart has to work harder all the time, there is more sheer pressure on the lining of their arteries and this is causing progressive damage which leads to inflammation and a deposition of a plaque (complex topic simplified). 

On the other hand, you have a very active individual with normal blood pressure in whom this is not happening but yes, his joints are under more wear & tear and he might need surgery in his 50s or 60s for knee or pelvic joint. 

Maybe the argument should be - which poison are you going to choose? Would you rather that your heart and vascular system works extra hard or that your mobility aparatus does. Which one is easier to reverse and repair? Which one will kill you faster? 

Yes I agree that being active will make the body stronger and run smoother,

but making it you live longer that I don’t agree with, 

also there are other things that also matter, like your diet, 

being skinny with a perfect diet and low body mass will probably have you live longer than an athlete with more mass, 

 

but none of this disproves my position.

[Yousif]

The simplest and most obvious example is this:-  the claim be science is that the more you exercise the longer you will live because they only consider this problem with one aspect which is the aspect of disease and functionality,

Not taking into account the thing we call aging,

 

and what I’m saying here is the more you use a thing the more it ages.

[Michael569]

15 minutes ago, Yousif said:

also there are other things that also matter, like your diet, 

Ofcourse. Diet is a paramount component of a healthy body. 

15 minutes ago, Yousif said:

being skinny with a perfect diet and low body mass will probably have you live longer than an athlete with more mass,

That is debatable. For example being skiny with a low BMI does protect you more from things like cancer and heart disease (to some extend)  but makes you more prone to osteoporosis. After the age of 65, about 20-25% of people who fall and break a loading hip or a loading bone die in the hospital. Of those who make it out of hospital (often resulting in major loss of muscle mass and further loss of bone mass) about third die within 12 months as a consequence of prolonged immobiity, infection or heart problems.

Of all those who make it past year 1, almost 100% will suffer chronic consequences such as limping, pain and higher risk of infection, falling and another fracture. 

Falling and breaking a hip is one of the most common ways to die after 65. And the main risk factor for osteoporosis besides being female, old or postmenopausal is low body weight. 

 

Edited March 6, 2024 by Michael569

[undeather]

Quote

 

That is debatable. For example being skiny with a low BMI does protect you more from things like cancer and heart disease (to some extend)  but makes you more prone to osteoporosis. After the age of 65, about 20-25% of people who fall and break a loading hip or a loading bone such as femur or tibia die in the hospital. Of those who make it out of hospital (resulting in major loss of muscle mass) about third die within 12 months as a consequence of prolonged immobiity, infection and heart problems.

Of all those who make it past year 1, almost 100% will suffer chronic consequences such as limping, pain and higher risk of infection, falling and another fracture. 

Falling and breaking a hip is one of the most common ways to die after 65. And the main risk factor for osteoporosis besides being female, old or postmenopausal is low body weight. 

 

Let's also add to that that VO2-max, which is only increased through regular exercise, is one of the best predictors of longevity.
Even if you go from being low to being below average is a 50% reduction in mortality over a decade.
If you then go from low to above average, it’s about a 60% or 70% reduction in mortality.

So even if you are skinny with a perfect diet, you will clearly increase lifespan & quality of life through moderate exercise.