Beware Of Unearned Wisdom

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

I have a paradoxical perspective on this...

On one hand, psychedelics (and other intense processes) can really mess someone up if they aren't ready. So, I'm reticent to talk too much about them on my channel out of concern that people will face with experiences that they don't know how to integrate or cope with. And I'm more apt to caveat the use of entheogens to death.

On the other hand. I took Ayahuasca experimentally at age 20. And I was not prepared. And along with a variety of other traumas in my life, these experiences were awakening experiences that turned my entire worldview on its ear. And it created years of struggle for me afterwards. 

But now, nearly 15 years later, I recognize that these experiences and the chaotic times after these experiences were a key element of my life's journey and that "biting off more than I can chew" was necessary for me to demolish the identity and worldview from before in order to transform into the form I'm approaching now.

So... don't seek out unearned wisdom... unless you really need to struggle with unearned wisdom to transform and grow.

I get what you are saying, and in principle I agree. A healthy dose of struggle and chaos may be a necessary part of the healing process; per aspera ad astra, as the saying goes. So this is definitely not a clear-cut black and white issue where you can draw a neat and clean line between what is healthy & "recommendable" and what isn't. Sometimes you need to lose yourself in order to find yourself, to cite another platitude.

But there are certain cases where you just cannot shake the feeling that the person in question is venturing so far into murky and dubious terrain that some (gentle) intervention might be necessary. Especially when they don't have any real life mentor/counselor or peer group that regularly checks up on them and makes sure that they don't get completely lost in la-la-land.

But yeah, some people need to hit rock bottom first before they manage to wise up, as painful as it may be to watch.

 

Edited March 7 by Bazooka Jesus

[Realms of Wonder]

Interesting perspectives posed so far.

It definitely seems wise and ideal to have a strong foundation of psychological/survival competence before launching into an abyss in search of deeper and deeper consciousness. 

But, That's not how I did/have done it haha.

I was 18 and clueless to personal development and took LSD with my brother, it was life transforming over the years as I unpacked it and started doing the work, it opened my mind to the possibility of there being more then I have known, and what I know could be false.

BUUUUTTT.... I definitely got the idea that I was to go straight for enlightenment without building a foundation by meeting my basic needs. I ended up tripping 150+ times over the course of 3-4 years, hoping and chasing higher wisdom, higher consciousness, expanded states, etc.. 

Now, 8 years later, I am letting the future me to go for Awakening, as current me works on building routines, habits, my Life Purpose and meeting basic needs.

All that said, I am glad I unfolded it the way I did, because now  as I work on the "basics," I am aware of much more to come, of a reality I dont understand but could, of possibilities I wouldn't be aware of if I hadn't tripped as much as I did.

[strangelooper]

There's no such thing as "unearned" wisdom because nobody chose to get the wisdom, they were manipulated by the universe to receive. Nobody has autonomy therefore this is foolish premise.

[Leo Gura]

Tripping is how you earn wisdom.

Unearned wisdom are all these spiritual rats following Ekhart Tolle, Rupert Spira, Mooji, and the like.

Edited March 11 by Leo Gura

[LSD-Rumi]

@Bazooka Jesus Yoy cannot go deep on psychedelics unless you clean yourself psychologically and spirituality. Your ego will prevent higher states and insights. So you will not reach true wisdom in the first place.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

6 hours ago, strangelooper said:

There's no such thing as "unearned" wisdom because nobody chose to get the wisdom, they were manipulated by the universe to receive. Nobody has autonomy therefore this is foolish premise.

What's foolish is to think that you can take reckless shortcuts to awakening as a mentally unbalanced person and not pay a hefty price for it.

But you do you.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

Oh, and thanks for reminding me...

Don't listen to Leo. He is the worst possible person to emulate regarding the responsible use of awakening tools.

[Francis777]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Bazooka Jesus Yoy cannot go deep on psychedelics unless you clean yourself psychologically and spirituality. Your ego will prevent higher states and insights. So you will not reach true wisdom in the first place.

bollocks, its what you make of the insights which is the spiritual maturity/immaturity. Any idiot can realise god on psychedelics then come back down and make a fool of him.

[PenguinPablo]

You can really turn your life upside down with this shit

 

[Breakingthewall]

The only way to transcend the psyche and open yourself to the total absolute for 99.9% of people is to work with psychedelics. You can say that you are afraid to do this and you prefer not to try it, it is respectable, but then your chances of achieving real progress in your life in this sense will be minimal. You will be going around in circles until you die of old age. Serious work with psychedelics has risks and you must be mentally strong, anything real in life has risk. but it is much riskier to stay stagnant

 

[Jodistrict]

A shaman from Mexico has been teaching me to use mushrooms to equilibrate my energy.  He says that everything in the trip is just our own energies and we can go on any level of journey by forming a calm center that coexists with and accepts the energies.  The psychedelic journey is training the mind to be calm and in a state of equanimity.  In my last journey spirits appeared to me saying “we are not energy, we are real” and they convinced me because the visions were so high fidelity, vivid, and as real as ordinary reality.  But I just focused on my mantra and remained calm.   In ordinary reality, we are constantly triggered by our environment.  The triggers are activation of our energies.  So we train the mind to be in a calm state, focused always on the present, letting the energies move without affecting our equilibrium.  Our ordinary waking consciousness is also a form of imagination which convinces us it is real, just like the visions in an altered state.   So it is not dissimilar.

 

[LSD-Rumi]

2 hours ago, Francis777 said:

bollocks, its what you make of the insights which is the spiritual maturity/immaturity. Any idiot can realise god on psychedelics then come back down and make a fool of him.

This reminds of some erowid trip reports, drug addicts having a spiritual experience, to then come back and do meth all day.

[LSD-Rumi]

27 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

A shaman from Mexico has been teaching me to use mushrooms to equilibrate my energy.  He says that everything in the trip is just our own energies and we can go on any level of journey by forming a calm center that coexists with and accepts the energies.  The psychedelic journey is training the mind to be calm and in a state of equanimity.  In my last journey spirits appeared to me saying “we are not energy, we are real” and they convinced me because the visions were so high fidelity, vivid, and as real as ordinary reality.  But I just focused on my mantra and remained calm.   In ordinary reality, we are constantly triggered by our environment.  The triggers are activation of our energies.  So we train the mind to be in a calm state, focused always on the present, letting the energies move without affecting our equilibrium.  Our ordinary waking consciousness is also a form of imagination which convinces us it is real, just like the visions in an altered state.   So it is not dissimilar.

 

This reminds me of an incident in which The Buddha gently brushed away a fly, remarking that he momentarily lost his mindfulness, and said this doesn't suit a monk. It seems he was in a constant state of mindfulness, and constantly aligning his energy with existence.

.

[BipolarGrowth]

On 3/6/2024 at 4:13 AM, Bazooka Jesus said:

You have no idea what kind of an unholy mess you might wind up in if you don't tread lightly with this stuff.

I know precisely the kind of unholy mess I might wind up in if I don’t tread lightly with this stuff. 
 

Maybe it’s not that much of a surprise that obtaining unearned wisdom over and over again and dealing with the consequences is actually a path to wisdom. 
 

But yeah, if you aren’t prepared to lose $100,000, get a criminal charge, be contained in a psychiatric ward against your will, sully your reputation, lose friends, and strain family relationships, you should listen to @Bazooka Jesus

[LSD-Rumi]

2 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

But yeah, if you aren’t prepared to lose $100,000, get a criminal charge, be contained in a psychiatric ward against your will, sully your reputation, lose friends, and strain family relationships, you should listen to @Bazooka Jesus

Did you face difficulties lately? You were withdrawn from the forum. 

[BipolarGrowth]

12 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Did you face difficulties lately? You were withdrawn from the forum. 

No, I’ve actually been a lot more stable than before. I had a couple hospitalizations/psych ward stays last summer and was out of work for a few months, but it used to be a lot worse. I haven’t used psychedelics since the summer of 2021. This has made my mental health far more predictable and easier to manage. I used to resist the side effects of psychiatric medications, eventually coming off of them and usually taking psychedelics around that time which ended up putting me in the psych ward several times each year. I had a craving for mystical experiences and insight which I couldn’t experience that well without psychedelics, but my baseline consciousness rose substantially after a few events/“attainments” in 2021. This higher baseline now means that I can fulfill my spiritual desires much easier without the need of substances. The higher baseline consciousness also combats a lot of the side effects of psychiatric medications that used to make me feel sort of lifeless.