Leo is not LUCID & Reality is neither real nor imaginary

[Arthogaan]

Click-baitish title, as I am still agnostic on the following topic. 

But I think the video that I will be referencing makes some interesting points and it would be great for Leo to make longer post or even video explaining his stance/response on this very thoroughly. Because that is really often debated on the forum ever since the infamous "Nobody on this forum is AWAKE" thread. And I feel it was never really fully addressed.

The video: (It's not long but you can actually start at 7:40 as that's were the good stuff begins)

 

Main Points:

- the belief in a story that this is all a dream and that that story is an objective perspective that somehow holds truth outside of the dream is itself also to be confused about the reality of reality,

- the realization that you are God is the same deal. There may be experience that everything is God, but that is more mind content. It is not direct contact with an objective mind independent stones. The same goes for everything is God/Love/Consciousness. The same goes for the sense that everything is Mind or a Dream or even Real,

- so long as you're reliant on some felt sense of something within experience to give a clear reading of how reality is ontologicaly then you are just appealing to more dream content, 

- If it feels like something to perceive everything as One or God, and you base your belief in reality off of this feeling quality, then you lost lucidity, the same goes for feeling quality of dreaminess or realness, 

- the world is neither a dream nor real,

[Thought Art]

I mean, the trick is God is both the source and the content. So, yeah. 
 

The “Content” is God. Idk how else to say it. Yes, all of the content is not the absolute (while also being the absolute). 
 

I’ll have to listen to him again. First impression he didn’t give a great explanation to back what he was saying. Though, I did like his non-dual take on it. However, I do wonder if he non-dual stance influences his understanding in a way that is limiting. 
 

Willing to try later again.

Edited March 6 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

His Buddhist framing is important to note. 
 

In my view he doesn’t understand what awakening is in how Leo talks about it. It’s more profound than just a similar mental happening when we wake up in the morning. 
 

I have to watch again. It’s a pretty dense talk. 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

Yup!

There is no exiting the "illusion"... cause the illusion is all there is and therefore is not an illusion, and also not not an illusion. It's just THIS!

Glad to see that the penny has finally dropped, my man.

 

Edited March 6 by Bazooka Jesus

[Yimpa]

@Bazooka Jesus My partner’s dog name is Penny, heh.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

35 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Bazooka Jesus My partner’s dog name is Penny, heh.

Amazing. Thanks for this invaluable contribution to the discussion at hand.

[Yimpa]

10 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Amazing. Thanks for this invaluable contribution to the discussion at hand.

I would like my imaginary trophy blasted via bazooka cannon 

[Arthogaan]

12 hours ago, Thought Art said:

His Buddhist framing is important to note

Yes I also can feel that. But even though part of me feels that it is a Buddhist paradigm, i still can't find inconsistency in it. It seems bulletproof. Any ground seems silly.

 

11 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Glad to see that the penny has finally dropped, my man.

Thanks brother. I have to say, the last 1.5 week was crazy. It started by "His Moistness" posting Roger's description of 5th stage of enlightenment, and something just clicked during walking meditation and all models are falling apart. Btw be prepared for my messages because Waterbytheriver is probably getting sick of my dm's haha.

[Water by the River]

37 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

Btw be prepared for my messages because Waterbytheriver is probably getting sick of my dm's haha.

don't worry...

 

... Rodents  (singing the Heart Sutra) with style

Here then,
Form is no other than emptiness,
Emptiness no other than form.
Form is only emptiness,
Emptiness only form.

Feeling, thought, and choice,
Consciousness itself,
Are the same as THIS.

 

Selling Water by the River

 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

1 hour ago, Arthogaan said:

Thanks brother. I have to say, the last 1.5 week was crazy. It started by "His Moistness" posting Roger's description of 5th stage of enlightenment, and something just clicked during walking meditation and all models are falling apart. Btw be prepared for my messages because Waterbytheriver is probably getting sick of my dm's haha.

Hehehe... nice!

[Mu_]

I always like hearing new ways of trying to talk about "this", and about 100% of this I agree with.  The only thing I'd add or say, is Qualia isn't qualia in the traditional sense, arising from senses due to a phenomena.  The whats arising is ultimately You, God, Gods experience.....  But honestly it doesn't really matter to say it like this or the way the video is saying it, because ultimately its all the same anyways.  I think I and many others here get a little to pedantic about all this.

Edited March 6 by Mu_

[Razard86]

The key to your confusion, is you don't realize that qualia is imagination. You need to have an awakening into what imagination actually is. Until you discover what imagination is, none of this will make sense for you. When I discovered that I could touch a table and it could feel like water, that's when I realized how deep imagination is.

Close your eyes, imagine an apple, now open your eyes. That apple you just imagined is equal to the physical world. You are just able to imagine at various levels of FREQUENCY, or in another word, consistency. The reason the word TRUTH is used, is a result of something being true based on it's integrity, its consistency, it's frequency. The apple you just imagined, was easily dissolved. But if you go to the store and pick up an apple you can't easily dissolve it. THIS is why he says whatever before you is ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Because what we call physical is just imagination that is true and is consistent and is so consistent that even if that apple were to rot you would see it as an apple that had rotted versus the apple you imagined earlier you don't view it as an apple since it disappeared.

Now when you change your state enough, you can dissolve the physical world the SAME WAY you just dissolved the apple just now. Then when you investigate from that state you realize the physical world is just as imaginary as the apple you imagined earlier. This is why he says there is no Universe. So you realize that even the Universe can be dissolved. That time and space, and physicality is just a strong imagination. So strong, that it's real, but it can also NOT be real and be dissolved into nothing just like that Apple.

When the Universe is dissolved there is a void, a NOTHING and you STILL EXIST even though there is no time, no space, and no Universe. THIS IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Because it is nothing, it HOUSES everything. What we call Something in totality is the Universe. This Something arises and changes but is absolutely stable. It is Absolute because it is made of the same thing as the Absolute, which is pure imagination, and what you discover is the qualia is the same as lack of qualia. So now you realize it is BOTH real and imaginary and imaginary and real are the same thing. It is real, in that it is eternal, and it is imaginary in that it can always collapse into nothing at various levels of integrity, frequency, consistency.

TLDR: You need to discover the VOID, it is called cessation in meditation circles. You need to experience still existing with NOTHING THERE. This is why we talk about Absolute Solipsism which says you are all alone. You are, because you are so unified. This is why you can feel connected with other people, and you can feel alone around other people. Because you are alone, together. 

Read this trip report by this girl it might help put some dots together as well. 

^^^^ Other examples of the void besides cessation, is deep sleep. If you ever passed out completely and say you blanked out. Notice you can remember a blank.....that blank....is the void. It is a cessation of all qualia. But notice you can remember in the present, it happening. That means you existed....when there was nothing there. So that is another proof that you don't need qualia to exist. It also means wherever you go, you are there because nothing....is always there.

Now all you need to do is discover that something...is also nothing. You can also replace the word nothing with nonsense, as it is not bound by sensory perception because you don't need a human body to see, hear, touch, etc. Hell you don't even need a physical universe to see hear touch etc, and the proof is when you go to sleep at night you can experience that without there being a physical universe and are completely fooled until you wake up.

 Good Luck!!!

Edited March 6 by Razard86