Why do girls not find their boyfriends creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy?

[mr_engineer]

2 minutes ago, meta_male said:

Girls getting taken advantage of by creeps and toxic men won't have a better life. You just can't accept the fact that you're a creep. So what? I'm a creep too. So is every human being. Have you ever seen a real person? They're creepy as fuck when you think about it. Just accept your creepiness so you can move on.

But calling them 'creeps' and 'toxic men' doesn't solve anything, right? You have to get to the bottom of why you felt 'creeped out' or what 'toxic behavior' the person (not 'man', person) was doing, so that you can solve something. 

[meta_male]

11 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

But calling them 'creeps' and 'toxic men' doesn't solve anything, right? You have to get to the bottom of why you felt 'creeped out' or what 'toxic behavior' the person (not 'man', person) was doing, so that you can solve something. 

I agree it would make it easier if you got an explanation as to why so you can decide whether it was an insult or actually some truth behind it.

Unfortunately most people have no interest in making your life easier. Unlike people on the forum that are hard to come by in real life.

Edited March 12 by meta_male

[mr_engineer]

8 minutes ago, meta_male said:

Unfortunately most people have no interest in making your life easier. Unlike people on the forum that are hard to come by in real life.

That's why you make your own life easier, by banning the words yourself. There is no point in calling someone 'creepy' or 'unlovable' or 'toxic'. Men have to unite against the usage of these words, we have to taboo them. They should be seen as the equivalent to the 'N-word' for Black people, because they are. 

[meta_male]

Nobody is going to ban the N-word from my vocabulary, I use it as I see fit, I don't care. If someone can't stand the sound or meaning of a word it's their own issue. How about you stand up for the men you think are unrightfully called toxic and creepy? Here you got something to fight for instead of making your life easier by banning words (which is wokeist illusion).

[mr_engineer]

5 minutes ago, meta_male said:

Nobody is going to ban the N-word from my vocabulary, I use it as I see fit, I don't care. If someone can't stand the sound or meaning of a word it's their own issue.

Yeah, but you can't actually call someone the N-word, right? You will be penalized for that, right?! 

5 minutes ago, meta_male said:

How about you stand up for the men you think are unrightfully called toxic and creepy?

I mean, saying that 'don't unrightfully call men toxic and creepy' isn't going to do much, cuz everyone who uses these words is already being self-righteous. I prefer banning the words altogether, so that they have to come up with more constructive terms to talk about their issues. 

5 minutes ago, meta_male said:

Here you got something to fight for instead of making your life easier by banning words (which is wokeist illusion).

I don't want to fight anything/anyone. The words themselves are the wokeist illusion. So, if we ban the words, the illusion will break! 

Edited March 12 by mr_engineer

[meta_male]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

I prefer banning the words altogether, so that they have to come up with more constructive terms to talk about their issues. 

Ok ban the words. Much respect if you can pull this off while black people are still fighting racism and the N-word is more present than ever.

3 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

don't want to fight anything/anyone.

This is your problem, you'd rather be in your comfort zone banning words, which is impossible. You need to grow thicker skin you know?

[Nemra]

22 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

There is no point in calling someone 'creepy' or 'unlovable' or 'toxic'. Men have to unite against the usage of these words, we have to taboo them. They should be seen as the equivalent to the 'N-word' for Black people, because they are. 

Those words aren't used only as slurs, and even if they are, they are not equal to the N-word. I know that those words can be hurtful. But you don't have to care about it, as it's easy to misunderstand others while processing emotions, regardless of whether they are right or wrong about you. The real solution is knowing your place, whether others are being mean, compassionate, right, or wrong.

Edited March 12 by Understander

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Understander said:

Those words aren't used only as slurs, and even if they are, they are not equal to the N-word. I know that those words can be hurtful. But you don't have to care about it, as it's easy to misunderstand others while processing emotions, regardless of whether they are right or wrong about you. The real solution is knowing your place everywhere, whether others are being mean, compassionate, right, or wrong.

Do you agree with banning/tabooing the usage of these words? 

[Nemra]

@mr_engineer 

Do you agree to ban the real toxic behavior of men? I know those words can be thrown at you, even if you're not being toxic (maybe you are, I don't know). But see them as a defense mechanism. You're not the only man who exists. Banning them might help you feel good, but it'll be hurtful to women as they will lose power to speak against men, who are really toxic, and there are a lot of them.

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, Understander said:

@mr_engineer 

Do you agree to ban the real toxic behavior of men? I know those words can be thrown at you, even if you're not being toxic (maybe you are, I don't know). But see them as a defense mechanism.

If you could define what 'toxic behavior' meant in a convincing manner, yeah, I would agree to ban it. In order to ban it, though, you do have to define what 'toxic' means first, in practice. If you're staying in the realm of theory, that word is too ambiguous. It's a catch-all term that can be thrown at anyone. That's why I want to ban the word. 

4 minutes ago, Understander said:

You're not the only man who exists. Banning them might help you feel good, but it'll be hurtful to women as they will lose power to speak against men, who are really toxic, and there are a lot of them.

This is what I want to ban. 'Speaking against men'. Speak against toxic behavior, but why are you against men?! Why 'empower' ('enable' is the actual word) women to 'speak against men' and hurt men? 

Edited March 12 by mr_engineer

[Consept]

@mr_engineer

What do you regard as real toxic or creepy behavior in men?

[Nemra]

@mr_engineer 

The thing is, you believe men aren't toxic at all, or if they are being called as such, then women are exaggerating. I mean, yes, women can exaggerate it. That's why I said to see it as a defense mechanism, because sometimes they can be wrong about it.

12 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Speak against toxic behavior, but why are you against men?!

Women are against men who are toxic.

Of course, there can be women who hate men, but there'll be fewer than men who hate women (I don't think those two groups would entirely hate each other).

Men still have power, at least physical power, which they can abuse and certainly do.

[mr_engineer]

11 minutes ago, Consept said:

@mr_engineer

What do you regard as real toxic or creepy behavior in men?

'Creepy' has nothing to do with behavior and everything to do with how the other person feels about it. If the other person feels 'creeped out' by your behavior, you could smile at them and they'll still call you 'creepy'. 

And, 'toxic' behavior (that's legal) includes: 

• Sexism, 'women belong in the kitchen' type rhetoric, 
• Overtly controlling and disrespectful behavior, 
• Aggressive and threatening behavior, lacking impulse-control (pointing fingers, shouting, fist-clenching) This need not be threatening to the other person, that's illegal, it could just be displaying uncontrolled aggression towards anything in front of women/children. 
• Swearing in inappropriate settings
• Abusing power, hypocrisy 

10 minutes ago, Understander said:

Women are against men who are toxic.

Again, it's not the men themselves who are toxic, it's the behavior. You have to correct the behavior, not call 'men' or 'masculinity' toxic. 

 

Edited March 12 by mr_engineer

[Nemra]

@mr_engineer

Also, no one here is defending women blindly. They do it because a lot of men believe they are superior because they have power, whether it is given to them naturally or by humans. So, those men are basically being against women.

[mr_engineer]

5 minutes ago, Understander said:

@mr_engineer

Also, no one here is defending women blindly. They do it because a lot of men believe they are superior because they have power, whether it is given to them naturally or by humans. So, those men are basically being against women.

Is having the power in and of itself 'misogynistic'/'toxic'? Or, is the abuse of this power a product of a 'misogynistic' ideology? 

Is the problem that men have power, or is it that men are abusing it? 

[Consept]

3 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Creepy' has nothing to do with behavior and everything to do with how the other person feels about it. If the other person feels 'creeped out' by your behavior, you could smile at them and they'll still call you 'creepy'. 

So do you believe there's no behavior that could be classed as creepy? 

Some examples - if a guy is following a woman late at might on a street and not saying. If a guy stares at a woman's crotch or tits whilst speaking to her. If a guy touches a woman's ass on purpose on a crowded train. If a man tells a woman he just met he's imagining having sex with her. 

Would these examples be on the women for being creeped out? Keep in mind none are illegal 

[Nemra]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Again, it's not the men themselves who are toxic, it's the behavior. You have to correct the behavior, not call 'men' or 'masculinity' toxic.

Masculinity, like femininity, can be toxic. That's why men, who mostly identify themselves as masculine, can be toxic. Women being against men being toxic is not toxic, which can become toxic if they are wrong about the person. That is why I said don't care if women say that you're being toxic, if you are not.

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, Consept said:

if a guy is following a woman late at might on a street and not saying. If a guy stares at a woman's crotch or tits whilst speaking to her. If a guy touches a woman's ass on purpose on a crowded train. If a man tells a woman he just met he's imagining having sex with her. 

The first three are illegal. The first one is 'stalking', the second one is 'ogling', the third one is 'sexual assault'. And, the fourth one is not illegal but it's not advisable because it comes across as 'narcissistic' and 'objectifying'. So, I would prefer to not use the word 'creepy' for it, I'd rather say 'objectifying'. 

4 minutes ago, Understander said:

Masculinity, like femininity, can be toxic. That's why men, who mostly identify themselves as masculine, can be toxic.

This is because of the cultural definition of 'masculinity', which is exclusively about 'conquest' and 'achievement'. That's not the reality of what masculinity is about! In reality, masculinity is about providing and protecting. 

[Nemra]

5 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Is having the power in and of itself 'misogynistic'/'toxic'? Or, is the abuse of this power a product of a 'misogynistic' ideology? 

Is the problem that men have power, or is it that men are abusing it? 

 

[mr_engineer]

@Understander In that case, the 'toxicity' associated with masculinity has nothing to do with masculinity in and of itself. Anyone can come up with a hateful ideology and be abusive towards others as a result of it, irrespective of the power-balance.