Why do girls not find their boyfriends creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy?

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

I can be talking to my husband and he might say something to me which I may respond in a joking way ,"ooh, that's creepy". He will say, no it's not, you're just being too sensitive, and I may say. I'm not, its just creepy. Then we change the subject in a flowing way, go home and have crazy sex. Why should I advocate to make the word creepy taboo. I call a spider creepy.

Point taken. 

[Nemra]

@mr_engineer

So this is why you champion being nice. The things you say here you won't say to women face-to-face because you still want validation from them, even though you're against that.

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Don't personally attack me on an intellectual discussion. 

If you call my statement a personal attack, you don't know what it is to verbally attack someone. Saying to someone that you gave your power away without realizing it is not an attack.

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Understander said:

@mr_engineer

So this is why you champion being nice. The things you say here you won't say to women face-to-face because you still want validation from them, even though you're against that.

Actually, I'm looking at whether you can come up with rational objections to what I'm saying, before I actually say these things to women. 

So far, I haven't seen any. Maybe I will say these things to women! 

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

If you call my statement a personal attack, you don't know what it is to verbally attack someone. Saying to someone that you gave your power away without realizing it is not an attack.

It is. 

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's very unfortunate

I can see why you wanted to help, your website says it all. You're in the field and can spot this easily.

[StarStruck]

 

[mr_engineer]

3 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

 

Yall can't resist personally attacking me, can you?! 

[Nemra]

@mr_engineer

You don't learn, you preach here.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Actually, I'm looking at whether you can come up with rational objections to what I'm saying, before I actually say these things to women. 

So far, I haven't seen any. Maybe I will say these things to women! 

It is. 

No it's not. If that's the case every guru who teaches emotional mastery that tells you how you're giving your power away and to take control back is attacking you. The sensitivity is unreal and problematic. I feel sorry for you. You have given your power away immensely and thinking you're actually doing something brave. You're not, you're just whining because you've lost your power and don't know how to regain it back.

I'll tell you how. Ignore the women who call you a creep and move on to the next. Done.

[StarStruck]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

Yall can't resist personally attacking me, can you?! 

You are making it personal by being so defensive 

 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Yall can't resist personally attacking me, can you?! 

. Your ego is very fragile. You can dish it out but can't take it. You whimp and whine as soon as somebody says anything to hurt your fragile ego and call it an attack. You're just crying for help. I told you what to do. Go out into the world and take control of your life, don't give it over to women by getting upset with them for calling you a creep. If you're not a creep, it shouldn't bother you. Move on and approach some more with confidence. Plenty of women out there. Creeps attract creeps. You're not a creep so you'll be fine. 

[StarStruck]

How old is@mr_engineer??

[Consept]

Imagine talking for literal years on a forum about how you should be allowed to be creepy towards women, whilst never actually talking to any women irl. This is peak Internet. 

Let's say you win this argument @mr_engineer and everyone agrees with you, youll still be in the position. Just go out and talk to women, theyre not that bad i promise 

[Buck Edwards]

3 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

When men creep-shame other men, we enable this rhetoric of 'you are unlovable'. The more we unite against this rhetoric, the more we will be able to leave behind unloving women, the more loving the mothers of our children will be, and the better future our society will have. 

3 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

This is the textbook definition of 'narcissist' - A person who only cares about themselves and has no concern for others. 

You're living in a self concocted fantasy world. Dating is not a love fantasy where you're supposed to feel accepted and loved. Who told you that? Dating is a cruel logical survival game, not a lovers paradise. If you want that kind of love, turn to spirituality or God although some part of it could be spiritual bypassing. If you date a girl, there's no guarantee that she will give you the most wonderful, pure, gorgeous heavenly love. It's also foolish to expect that out of anyone, much less a spouse or a partner. Your partner is with you because you provide them the value they seek and not because they are in heavenly fantasy ridden love with you. I don't know where you get these ideas from, probably movies? It's time to have some emotional and social maturity. Girls want high value men, end of the story. A girl might accept a guy who is acting creepy, if he is the right fit she is looking for. This applies to both men and women. Men look for a healthy partner. You aren't attracted to seriously unattractive women. Don't they deserve love? It's because dating is a game of attraction. A soulmate is only a soulmate as long as you are of value to them. That's why even the healthiest couples divorce. At some point the value is lost and they see more harm than joy in living together. So they separate? Your idea of a partner is fantasy ridden. Why will a handsome man date an ugly chick? He won't see any value in it. It's cuthroat, yes, and that's the whole idea. It's survival value based fundamentally and not love based. 

It's nobody's job or obligation to provide you the love you want. Your fundamental friction arises from wanting someone to love you for who you are and wanting to be accepted. 

You're slowly and gradually inching closer to incel category with your distorted line of thinking. You aren't  putting cognitive effort here, only emotional effort. 

But repeat these statements in your mind as daily affirmations 

"Nobody owes me love. It's nobody's job to make me feel loved." 

You think that someone should make you feel loved so you can feel better about life. But that's not written in stone or a written law that someone should love you. This expectation is purely arising from self and has no obligation associated with it. Why should someone love you at all? What if they don't want to? It's not written in stone that someone is legally obligated to love you. The only person who has such a duty is most likely your mom and dad. Because they birthed you and raised you, so they have an obligation to raise you with love. Your siblings out of the moral obligation of being a blood relative have a partial obligation to love and respect you but nothing beyond it. 

Coming to romantic relationships, most relationships are transactional. They happen between two people who aren't blood relatives. They have zero obligation to reciprocate your love. They might out of courtesy or because they feel attracted to it. 

Your fundamental problem is emotional weakness, emotional emptiness and neediness. You can't throw this liability on others that they should love you so that you begin to feel loved. Also wanting them to keep loving you is a  form of fatal dependency. What if they are bored of you? Yes you can blame them for having mistreated you but try not to place blame entirely on others and handicapping yourself in the process. If you aren't attractive enough to them, they haven't committed a crime by rejecting you. 

There's nothing unloving about rejection. Although I have been rejected really badly and rejection felt like death to me, I still value a person's freedom in rejecting me, they are perfectly alright in doing so and it will be my own immaturity and arrogance to blame them. 

.. 

But repeat these statements in your mind as daily affirmations 

"Nobody owes me love. It's nobody's job to make me feel loved." 

"I should not need someone else to make me feel loved." 

Relationships are about value sharing and less about loving. They are not your parent, mother or father. It's value reciprocation and exchange. They give you value. You give them value. It's like friendship but it's on equal terms. You bring something to the table. They bring something to the table. If they like what you bring they will accept you and try to bring something to the table themselves in the hopes of winning your love. 

Creep is not another word for "unlovable" since it's nobody's job to make you feel loved. It's just another word for "low value." it means she doesn't see much value in the guy and might reject him. If you work on raising your value (rather than worrying about being labeled a creep), you have better chances of meeting someone who feels great to be with you. This applies to both men and women. If a woman is yelling, kicking, screaming, a man might not like her. She will try her best to be desired by a man. You should try your best. Social rules and norms aren't exclusive to men. Even women have to bear the brunt of being shamed if they don't womanly in public. Guys won't find her high quality and most likely never approach her. Her value is determined as well. Maybe some horny guy might still want her, but she loses the chance of a high value man. 

Relationships aren't a love emotional support group. The sooner you realize this the better. 

You're putting the onus of your neediness on other people who are probably not interested in you. This does not mean that you're unlovable but it certainly means you can work on your value so that somebody someday might reciprocate it by wanting to invest in you. You can't force someone to love you and even if you pressured or guilted them to it, that's some manipulation. Relationship should be based in honesty and not manipulation of emotions to make you feel loved. 

If you bring in massive value to the table in terms of personality, looks, ethics, money, standards, character, career, (value as a potential parent) integrity,intelligence, sexual market value (SMV), age, high quality behavior, values of trust and commitment, then you should have to worry very little about being rejected or possible failure in the dating market. Most people don't work on their values and expect a BEAUTIFUL WONDERFUL PERFECT PARTNER in return. As though  they are going to be handed to you like a trophy. Meanwhile you never had to do shit for it. Don't you think it looks very undeserving? In fact there are "almost perfect" people who have their shit together and still having to deal with a very shitty partner since they fell for the trap. 

You place huge expectations on life when you expect unconditional love without any value proposition. It's unfair to the other person. 

Creep is not unlovable. You made it up. Nobody is unlovable, just that the source of love should be you and not another. They don't owe you love. 

You're with someone because they find you better aligned to them and you seem to fit the bill and you find them better aligned to your needs and goals in life. That's where it ends. If you fulfill their needs, they will fulfill your needs. 

You might want to believe in the idea of a soulmate. But even a soulmate is not someone like a pillow that you get to put all your weight on. Your partner is not your emotional tampon and you shouldn't use them as such, that's greedy and selfish that you expect them to just take your emotional burden. This is akin to treating them like a therapist or a doctor and less of a partner. They deserve to enjoy your company, they are not your slave to keep serving all your needs till eternity. To think of a partner as someone who should be at your beck and call (or else they're not loving) is a form of severe entitlement. Why should you deserve love and not someone else who is probably better than you? Why should someone be happy with you when you do nothing to make them happy? 

It's not a crime if they are not attracted to you. It's your inability to accept your own lack and lack of accountability to work on it. It's your arrogance to persist on wanting to be loved when the other person is not interested or attracted. And then to shame them because they won't do what you want. Once again this is arrogance and entitlement and nobody wants to sign up to be your slave. 

Statement affirmations - 

"I'm always lovable no matter what. I should not depend on social validation to consider myself lovable." 

"I should be independent and not depend on someone's love. Such dependency is unhealthy. "

"It's nobody's job to love me." 

 

"I should learn to cure my void." 

"Creep does not mean unlovable. It means "socially uncalibrated" and someone who doesn't align with social values and dating principles. "

"Romantic love is associated with survival and value exchange and has nothing to do with unconditional love." 

 

"Perfect love doesn't exist. But emotional maturity can help two people to fulfill each other's needs." 

"I should not burden someone with the duty to love me. It's not their responsibility." 

"I don't have the right to use or exploit others for my needs especially if I don't have anything to offer in return." 

"They are entitled to reject me and I should not punish them or call them unloving. Rejection does not mean "unlovable." 

"If someone is not attracted to me, I shouldn't fault or blame them for it. They have personal autonomy. "

"I should not resent that the person I find desirable is attracted to someone else and not me. "

Also a woman who rejects you is not necessarily unloving. She is simply not attracted to you. She might be extremely loving to a man she has a deep attraction for. She might even be a loving mother to her children with that man. She doesn't become unloving simply because she is not attracted to you, you're putting yourself yourself on a pedestal there.. Ironically it is you who is punishing her for rejecting you. Once again it's your inability to cope with your illegitimate dependency on others to make you feel better. You are making it seem like they owe you. 

Even if you do provide value, if someone is not attracted they might find someone who they are genuinely attracted to. They don't need to accept you even if you provide value, it's a matter of personal choice, desirability, emotion and you can't own or dictate that. Nobody owes you and you don't own anyone. 

The key here is not blaming women for calling you a creep or for rejecting or not being attracted to you. The key here is to raise your own value as a man, to not look for low quality low value relationships but to aim high and provide accordingly, to find love in what you are and what you do rather than in people, to stop preaching and stop seeking validation, to stop wanting to exploit others for your needs, to not take rejection personally, to be more emotionally matured so that you bring massive value to your future partner and relationship, to stop the sneaky blame game and avoiding responsibility and to fix your own issues yourself rather than putting the onus on others to fix it for you. And above all to not feel so entitled to others desires and feelings. 

Also your real problem deep down (from the nature of your collective posts) is that you crave reciprocation for your romantic desire/passion and when you it doesn't go your way, you become silently angry and bitter about it and convert that bitterness into — "she is a bad bad unloving person." Notice how unloving you're being in labeling someone else as unloving. Where is your own love for others? 

Deep down you don't respect the other person at all. Because if you did, you wouldn't be punishing them for not reciprocating you. You would respect their choice and move on humbly and look for a person who is ready to willingly reciprocate you. 

So work on your need to demand reciprocation and realize that it's okay if someone doesn't do it, they don't have to. 

Edited March 5 by Buck Edwards

[Schizophonia]

No one here except to a certain extent Léo has serious experience and theoretical study of male-female relationships. Most of the time it involves writing down previous thoughts (at worst rumination) in the shower.
I wouldn't listen to anyone.

 

 

Edited March 5 by Schizophonia

[Bando]

I swear this section of the forum never grows its always the same 3-4 people posting the same shit over and over this conversation is nearly identical to discussions had over 2 years ago by the same people, nothing productive will happen here

[Israfil]

7 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Yall can't resist personally attacking me, can you?! 

Firstly, I would struggle to see any of the replies directed at you as a personal attack—advice or recommendation at best. And you even dismissed actual arguments as personal attacks.

Secondly, the "intellectual discussion" you are trying to have is based solely on your biases. Socialization shouldn't adhere to idealistic rules you are stating they should follow, but it is a process that happens materially and can only be properly understood in practice. That's why anthropologists observe as people live, record their habits and rules, and report back.

As long as you keep refraining from genuinely engaging with people, you will keep repeating this pattern of trying to describe the behavior of people, or worse, trying to prescribe how people should behave based on an ideal created over internet content. There's nothing "intellectual" about your arguments. You're simply using sophistry to justify your social inadequacy. That might be a good defense mechanism but is not exactly intellectual work.

Thirdly, be open to the possibility that people on a self-development forum are interested in helping you develop yourself. Your defensiveness is only detrimental to both your social and intellectual development. Your refusal to engage with comments that challenge more deeply your convictions might be holding you back in the endeavor of constructing a more coherent worldview.

May you find peace, man. 

[Emotionalmosquito]

21 hours ago, Understander said:

So this is why you champion being nice. The things you say here you won't say to women face-to-face because you still want validation from them, even though you're against that.

Not even sure if that’s true about mr engineer (unless I’ve missed a post where he admitted that). You might be surprised.

What I do know is i will say anything I say here to a woman IRL. No fucks given. As long as I remain standing a nice safe distance away from her I will say anything limited only to what won’t get me a charge.

[Emotionalmosquito]

23 hours ago, Emerald said:

@Emotionalmosquito As it pertains to women, the core wound that impacts men most is shame. As it pertains to men, the core wound that impacts women the most is powerlessness.

So, when men are sensitive to being called a creep... it's mostly because it triggers that shame and they aren't able to empathize with how it's a common experience that creepy men often make women feel powerless and unsafe. 

See the thing is most of the women calling guys creeps aren’t doing it for valid reasons, they just say it because the guy isn’t their type or they cracked a joke that didn’t land well. That makes women who experience actual creepiness get taken less seriously.

Often times a guy will be looking at a girl for several minutes trying to build the confidence to approach. To her, that may look like he’s plotting a kidnap or something. So when he finally works up the nerve, she will automatically react very negatively because she has already decided in her mind that he’s a threat before he even has a chance to show otherwise. Then he’ll go home falsely believing he may really be creepy. That’s messed up. Then unless he has emotional mastery he will likely carry that energy into the next approach.

I can totally understand why a woman would feel unsafe if she’s being approached in an empty parking garage or alone on the street. But they act like this in crowded areas in broad daylight or in clubs where there’s no possible way a dude could get away with assaulting her.

23 hours ago, Emerald said:

This unfortunately, makes these men feel unsafe and creepy in women's eyes because they cannot empathize with women and do not understand their own power. There is a phrase that denotes danger that fits here... "He doesn't know his own strength." That is the essence of the creep.

I don’t see how people think we have all this power or where it’s coming from. Women have more power than ever before in history and are actively gaining even more. The only thing we have on them is muscle, nothing more. The law and social dynamics are biased in their favor in most developed countries now.

Edited March 6 by Emotionalmosquito

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Often times a guy will be looking at a girl for several minutes trying to build the confidence to approach. To her, that may look like he’s plotting a kidnap or something. So when he finally works up the nerve, she will automatically react very negatively because she has already decided in her mind that he’s a threat before he even has a chance to show otherwise. Then he’ll go home falsely believing he may really be creepy. That’s messed up. Then unless he has emotional mastery he will likely carry that energy into the next approach.

I can totally understand why a woman would feel unsafe if she’s being approached in an empty parking garage or alone on the street. But they act like this in crowded areas in broad daylight or in clubs where there’s no possible way a dude could get away with assaulting her

Bro it is not a normal thing for a woman to just call a guy a creep just for approaching, even if they think he is they're obviously not going to say something that would wind him up if they thought he was potentially dangerous. Here are many examples of the exact scenarios you talk of where the guy was never going tonbe called a creep