Why Absolute Awakening Is An Illusion Per Se

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

There is an awakening to what you are and that's it. You are what you are, not a different thing every day. It's something definitive, you are that, that's it. Then you can start with the stories about how the trees disappear when you don't look at them and if they are still there, but that is something else, that is seeing deeply, breaking the veils of reality, opening your mind and your heart as much as possible you can, mysticism. Open yourself to the flow of intelligence that reality is, in this there are degrees, and no one will ever reach the full degree, I would say, it is mortal.

then there are two things: realizing what you are, what is, existence without any label or structure, and there are no degrees, it is that and if there is structure it is not that, and that's it. and on the other hand open your third eye or whatever that is called

Good points, and that resonates with me.

• One can realize what One is and what Reality is (Enlightenment), and that is final. If its not final, it was not the essence of it.
• Then you can have endless Awakenings in what You/True You can do (or imagine, or manifest as form).
  • Endless, because what can be imagined and manifested is endless, Infinity upon Infinity. God herself is busy exploring that, having fun at that, and will never reach the end of it (see Cantors Set Theory, and Infinity of Infinities exist already in this universe. Which means nothing else that the larger Reality manifesting our universe is capable of an Infinity of Infinities, and therefor will never run out of realms to explore.

I am absolutely not against that, its a wonderful thing to pursue the beauty of these Awakenings. But I just prefer to do that after realizing True Nature, because else it gets the usual ego-hamster-mill of pursuing experiences relieving the ego/self-contraction suffering. So its just a matter of what to do first, what to give priority before the other. Not either/or. It can even be done parallel, and normally happens this way (Awakenings/mystical experiences of all sorts before Enlightenment).

Added bonus with realizing of what one really is (True You) and what Infinite Reality really is, its essence (Infinite Being and every possible appearing including ego/separate-self not happening out of it but expressed BY that Reality)... is a tremendous relief/liberation from suffering or resistance to what appears/is, and knowing what survives death (everything that is important), and what was before birth, and what can never not be there.

 

9 hours ago, Argonaut said:

@r0ckyreed this post was spot on. There's always a higher awakening. One thing I've been thinking about... although its really weird... is what would happen if you tortured a mystic. At a certain point of pain, I think every human would become identified with their ego. We only know how awakened someone is within the limits of their tiny human life. 

This topic is what has turned me away from some of @Leo Gura's most recent perspectives. Even with copious amounts of psychedelics, there are always higher awakenings, so why harm your body and disregard your human life for a temporary experience of something that you can never stabilize? I'm more of a fan of using psychedelics to have temporary experiences that allow me to raise my baseline consciousness as much as possible and embody the truth as much as my human self can. Seems like the point of the game is to enjoy it, not to constantly worry about trying to play a more advanced game and shit on the one you're currently in.

Jesus did a good job of keeping Realization during torture (although he had a short lapse: father father why hast thou forsaken me). But of course he was Jesus.

Let's put it this way: When getting tortured, better by pretty stable in Realization. On the other side, even if the self-contraction kicks in again during extreme pain, why is that so necessary? With an incarnation into physical reality, the reset button is pushed anyway for the vast majority of beings, and then hopefully their Karma brings them back. But all of that is relative show.

True Being was never hurt, even if the incarnation forgets realization of True Being. And True Being has no moving parts, can never be damaged. This shift of perspective happens naturally when realizing what one is. Illusion off, illusion on, that is still on the relative level. The illusion of the separate-self never really existed (the rope was never a snake), but appeared to do say (the snake appeared and was seen). Maybe that perspective is helpful.

Selling Water by the River

Edited March 4 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Mu_ said:

wouldn't you say though that levels are itself an idea, even if experientially different?  And yes even the claim and idea that there are not levels, are to an idea, until even these claims that ideas being real are dropped as well..... but once that door is open, I'm not sure we can talk about much, hahaha..... and yet, the experience keeps on chugging.....

It's the same old crazy debate, the enlightened people who say that your body is a concept and reality is an empty hologram. They are wrong, let's say that the ve brake too late. It is one thing to get out of the learned human mind, from the conceptual prison, and another to become a crazy nihilist. Reality is the unlimited living, and it is absolute. That is to say, absolutely real, and this is an idea as far as I am transmitting it to you, but it has a real basis, like all ideas. The conceptual world is real, as a conceptual world, what you cannot do is lose yourself in its meaning, but its substance is the living infinity, like everything that exists, and there are levels of perception of this, which are not conceptual

 

[Princess Arabia]

@Razard86Thanks for that. I will take it into consideration. 

[Breakingthewall]

54 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

• One can realize what One is and what Reality is (Enlightenment), and that is final. If its not final, it was not the essence of it.
•  

The thing is that more than realize what reality is , is to remove all the mental structure and reality remains. One doesn't realize, one is the reality, subtle difference.

54 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Then you can have endless Awakenings in what You/True You can do (or imagine, or manifest as form).

Again the subtle but essential difference. You don't do or imagine. when you go deep you perceive what you are, you essence, in a deeper way, because what you are is existence, this, now, always. But this existence is absolute depth, it's the infinity alive. The cosmos, the "form", is. It cannot not be, it's absolute, is inherent to the existence. The movement of the infinite intelligence is absolute, is the reality. There are not holograms, there is infinite existence , and there is a source of this movement, the power that emerges from the abyss, being a bit poetic. You can go deep in it, this is mysticism. 

You could be let's say enlightened all time right? When you are working focused in anything, of even sleeping as you said. It's just absence of identification, is just be you, but it's still limited because you are a limited bubble of existence, your sight is limited to your bubble. This is not an identification, is something like see your body, it's real. That bubble can be broken in some extent and see deep . The synchronicity of all that exists is not an illusion, is the absolute cosmos, always existing without possibility of don't do, it's the consequence of the absence of limits, not a game that you do as god, because there is not god, thats the main pont, there is no creation, there is just infinite existence that organice and synchronizes itself cyclically and perfectly like a natural phenomena. There is no you and things inside you, there is just infinity being infinite. Then you are same time this bubble, all the bubbles in synchronized movement and the no buble, the absolute openenss. It's not a simple realization, it's a hobby that you could do, see deeper and deeper, with psychedelic . Fascinating and in a given moment scary 

All what I said sounds like mental construction I know. It's mental construction done after seeing, but maybe it's wrong, you never know, sorry for being categorical . I don't want to say that I reached the total freedom, just the capacity of turn off the logical mind and be now, but there are more barriers, always are Id said, and that of the dreamer seems one to me but maybe in some time I say that you were right 

Edited March 4 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

So-called enlightenment is not so much about finding an answer as it is about getting rid of the question. Or to put it another way: The (absolute) answer to all of your questions will be 100% non-verbal, a-rational and un-communicable.

Which is why enlightenment cannot be taught... it can only be realized.

Why is this starting to feel like when you used to be in Church and they would say don't question anything  just listen and obey. I'm not trying to get enlightened, I'm just asking questions, questions no one can answer. You all just telling me to never mind the questions just see for yourself and it will be revealed. Well, nothing will be revealed to a mute.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

This seems easy but it is not,

Well, the fact that it's simple doesn't necessarily mean that it's easy.

But there is no need for overcomplicating it with endless theorizing. In fact, the compulsive overcomplication of all this stuff is exactly what keeps you in the "matrix".

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

there should not be even a molecule of attachment left in the mind, and then the real change occurs. By the way, is this your case?

Naaaaw, I still have plenty of attachments. But they are getting progressively lighter... one step at a time. 

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

that about dream and illusion is sick madness, make me sick just reading about "illusion". Illusion is mind, how the people say that they transcended the mind and then they label the reality as "illusion"? Crazy

Using words like dream and illusion is absolutely okay as long as you don't give them too much significance. It only starts getting problematic if you confuse the relative validity of those terms for absolute truth. But as long as you're aware that they are just replaceable pointers... no problemo!

This is why I don't argue against these terms when they are being used by people who are clearly aware of the fact that they are just random words; it's usually pretty easy to tell if someone is using them lightly or if there is a strong conceptual attachment behind the written words.

And btw, you can of course get just as attached to a word like "Infinity". As I have said before, NO words are truly the correct ones when it comes to describing that which cannot possibly be described.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

The truth is there is no physical existence

Sorry to point, but this is meaning. If you start with this, you get lost in the mind. Physical or no physical is a mental construction that binds you, you are not free anymore if you do this differentiation, same as any other differentiation 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

you get lost in the mind

Who is the you that gets lost in the mind. 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

14 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You all just telling me to never mind the questions just see for yourself and it will be revealed. Well, nothing will be revealed to a mute.

Okay, here is your answer: The universe is being created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and we are all the individual noodles that make up this reality.

Satisfied?

 

Edited March 4 by Bazooka Jesus

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Okay, here is your answer: The universe is being created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and we are all the individual spaghetti that make up this reality.

Satisfied?

I will answer my own questions. Soon I'll be telling you all what you all are made of. 😜

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Who is the you that gets lost in the mind. 

How to be lost in the mind if it's empty of structure? The solution of the maze is removing the maze, no other choice 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

How to be lost in the mind if it's empty of structure? The solution of the maze is removing the maze, no other choice 

You said "If you start with this, you get lost in the mind". I asked you who get's lost in the mind. The body, breakinthewall, the human, God, the no self, reality, who?

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You said "If you start with this, you get lost in the mind". I asked you who get's lost in the mind. The body, breakinthewall, the human, God, the no self, reality, who?

What you are is something, it's existence flowing in a concrete shape. This intelligence can be free, open, or attached. There is the attaching to the mind conceptual world, you can be free of that, but then you are still attached to what you are as a bubble, you are this bubble of existence, that's real, until you die. You can free yourself from the mental conceptual world totally, but I think that it's impossible to free yourself totally from your shape, just in some extent, and that's mysticism. How much? I don't know

Maybe I'm deceived and all about the bubble is an illusion and I am now totally free ? I really don't think so, but the enlighteneds say yes, that's this is an illusion, a dream that I am creating and you can be totally free of it. How? Sounds crazy, some energetic structures are real 

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What you are is something, it's existence flowing in a concrete shape. This intelligence can be free, open, or attached. There is the attaching to the mind conceptual world, you can be free of that, but then you are still attached to what you are as a bubble, you are this bubble of existence, that's real, until you die. You can free yourself from the mental conceptual world totally, but I think that it's impossible to free yourself totally from your shape, just in some extent, and that's mysticism. How much? I don't know

Maybe I'm deceived and all about the bubble is an illusion and I am now totally free ? I really don't think so, but the enlighteneds say yes, that's this is an illusion, a dream that I am creating and you can be totally free of it. How? Sounds crazy, some energetic structures are real 

Why are humans the only ones not free.

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Why are humans the only ones not free.

I'd say that no one living being are free, they are limited for their bubble, their limited sensorial perception. That's why when they say that being enlightened is being like a child, I think they are wrong. that is freeing yourself from the conceptual mental superstructure, from social programming, being able to understand it and using it. then you are free from the learned mind, you are in the real. ok, you are happy, you have no ups and downs, congratulations. but you are still limited, the reality is much more. We have to agree with Gura here, he explains it vaguely but he is not a crazy retard, I don't know why he seems to be trying to seem that way by saying that about aliens. any blown fuse? a strategy ? I don't know. Humans, because we have that mental superstructure, by making the movement of freeing ourselves from its slavery, we see that we can also go beyond the bubble of existence, the closed energetic pattern that we are, opening our perception 

Edited March 4 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

This is why I don't argue against these terms when they are being used by people who are clearly aware of the fact that they are just random words;

But seems that they used them as real definitions, they believe in them 

Edited March 4 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd say that no one living being are free, they are limited for their bubble, their limited sensorial perception. That's why when they say that being enlightened is being like a child, I think they are wrong. that is freeing yourself from the conceptual mental superstructure, from social programming, being able to understand it. then you are free from the learned mind, you are in the real. ok, you are happy, you have no ups and downs, congratulations. but you are still limited, the reality is much more. We have to agree with Gura here, he explains it vaguely but he is not a crazy retard, I don't know why he seems to be trying to seem that way by saying that about aliens. any blown fuse? a strategy ? I don't know. Humans, because we have that mental superstructure, by making the movement of freeing ourselves from its slavery, we see that we can also go beyond the bubble of existence, the closed energetic pattern that we are, open our perception 

I'm trying to figure out why my cat is free and I'm not. Didn't we come from the same Source. If you say because I have a mind and the cat doesn't, and all this structure stuff and breaking limits etcetc, why isn't my cat trying to do all that. Of course i'm being facetious here but i'm trying to make a point which is humans seem to be the only species that got duped.

Edited March 4 by Princess Arabia

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The thing is that more than realize what reality is , is to remove all the mental structure and reality remains. One doesn't realize, one is the reality, subtle difference.

We align here, I have written similiar things in the past. It is a matter how words are used...

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd say that no one living being are free,

The thing is this, if you remove yourself from the equation and see a bird as you, then you are flying. If you see everything as you then you are free because everything is being you and you are that millionaire, that poor person, that homeless man, that elephant, that mouse just in different form. It's the separate person that suffers. If you don't desire anything you can't suffer.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

The thing is this, if you remove yourself from the equation and see a bird as you, then you are flying.

But the bird flies and you don't. That's the point that I meant before when I said that reality is real. 

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

I'm trying to figure out why my cat is free and I'm not

Your cat is an individual being and you are part of a hive entity. It is something very different. A living being that eats, sleeps and reproduces does not have a conceptual mind since it does not need one.

We are something else, another evolutionary step. In part we are like the cat, but in another large part we lend our processing capacity, our vitality, to the collective. This is genetic, there are irresistible pushes that attract you towards acceptance and separate you from social rejection, just as the cat has irresistible mechanisms that separate it from dogs. From there our mind branches into a thousand branches, all of them with their emotional charge that in the end is the duality of life/death, and that's it, you are already programmed, like everyone else, because it's necessary, the collective mind is in evolution and needs you. It's a living being as you are, but formed by many, that is evolving at super accelerated speed.

then you realize that this programming is slavery and dissatisfaction and you look for a way out, which is difficult because it requires a lot of understanding. once you achieve it, which is 100% possible, you have deactivated the software, connecting with the source directly, you no longer suffer, or you suffer little, since I don't think it can be completely deactivated. If tomorrow you are told that you will be tortured and mutilated in a medieval dungeon for 5 years by psychopathic professional torturers, you will suffer thinking about it. but ok, at a certain level you can deactivate the software. And who knows, maybe you understand that it's the movement of reality that must be done and you accept 

This does not mean that you are nothing, that the body is imaginary and so on. there is a real structure, a real flow of intelligence that is defined in this structure. This is solid, not imaginary, it's real, evolutionary. All reality seems to be organized in synchronous cyclical bubbles, it is not imaginary. That crazy guy from the US embassy in Vietnam that caught fire thought that yes, that everything was imaginary, it's the Buddhist thing, they have gone too far and are in the realm of nihilism, that nothing is real. If nothing is real, who minds the us invasion? Crazy . But let's give some space for the doubt, maybe they understand deeply and they saw without doubt that this must be done

 

Edited March 4 by Breakingthewall