Best Work of Frank Yang

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a limited notion of Consciousness.

Ironically, you are engaging is some kind of absolutism there.

There is nothing you are not.

It absolutely does.

Not "just". Experience is Absolute Truth.

This is irrelevant to the issue.

When using language as we are here, we cannot talk/write about things like Consciousness, no matter what any says including what You say, its all limited "Notions' because language is based on Logic, Consciousness has nothing to do with Logic on its fundamental level, so in essence we are talking "Around" it.

Absolutism in the context that we cannot come to the understanding that I am "Only" this Consciousness, yes we are Consciousness, but we have a Body and Mind to use, at the same time this Body/Mind are a part of this Consciousness too, so that is why its a paradox...

In fundamental terms I am Everything, Everything is Me, yes, but there are levels to it, on the level of existence on this planet while embodied in a individual Body/Mind complex I am not everything, lol, so this is why we are here as Humans, we can experience and be in both worlds, Unlimited, disembodied, I am Everything/Everything is I Experience, then in the next hour be cleaning our house, going for a walk in the park and expressing, creating, experiencing via 5 senses and such things, that is the beauty of it, we are not just the Everything I experience..

All we have is our Subjective Experience, and all there is is Now, Now is all that exists, past or future does not exist in this reality, only in our memory and imagination, so in a way Experience is absolute Truth, but are we having the Truest Experience, if One is then they will experience as Ecstasy, unbelievable pleasure of great intensity, as you have in some of your videos when You were high on 5 meo..when not in the Truest experience we fluctuate, up/down emotions and thought patterns which come from not being Aware of Truth in moment to moment experience..

Again we have to bring it down to the level of which most of us are coming from, the Individual Ego, Body/Mind complex, so its relevant on that level, not the absolute level imo:)

[Leo Gura]

@Ishanga I am speaking about the view from Awakening here, and high states of consciousness.

Edited March 17 by Leo Gura

[Jannes]

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I appreciate all higher states of consciousness. Just gotta be careful not to get stuck in them.

Not sure if I understand exactly what you said. It is the goal to get stuck in them. Or do you mean that you shouldn't get stuck in them in the sense that you shouldn't see them as the end goal?

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) I have experienced levels of consciousness which rendered all human spirituality teachings as ridiculous. This made me disillusioned with all human spiritual teachings, because they are all wrong in the end. I can't be bothered to take human spiritual teachings seriously any more because that illusion has been shattered for me. I place very little value in anything spiritual that humans say. That's just where I'm at. With that said, as you say, for everyday human life those teachings are still valuable. Because the consciousness I experienced is impractical and even dangerous and antithetical to human life.

But when you say it still has value for everyday human existence, why do you not want to do it, you still have an everyday human existence for the most part I would guess. Or is it too much of a struggle for you to take it seriously because you have seen magnitudes above that? 

So is human spirituality the best that human can practically do or can it be reinvented?

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

2) Ironically, it's the teachers who I am critical of who sell you on the fantasy of being invincible, or reaching some final state. I've sufferred a lot and faced a lot of limitation, so I appreciate how limited the human experience is. What I see is that a lot of spiritual people are kidding themselves. They have brainwashed themsleves with spiritual ideas and fantasies. Because in truth they were never thinking critically about anything. They were just lapping up what some guru was telling them. And then they fused those fantasies with their legit higher states of consciousness, thereby locking in the fantasy. But eventually life will shatter those fantasies. But they probably won't tell you when that happens.

So you think they actually locked in the fantasy and not the higher state of consciousness? 

Well there are false promises everywhere. Magic weight loss, magic money making, etc. why would spiritual gurus be different especially when there are no objective ways to tell if they are right or not. So that makes sense I haven't seen that clearly. 

[Ishanga]

@Jannes just chiming in:)

I would say that anyone that has had a "High State of Consciousness" experience, would come back and look at "Teachings" like a top level Physicist would react to going back to kindergarten and what they are teaching kids, Teachings are not there to give You the experience, there there to peek  your curiosity, so you begin to seek to go thru the sadhana needed so that You too have the Experience of a High Level of Consciousness..

Many Enlightened Individuals have said in their experience coming back to normal life takes some work, most of them have to consciously create karma to be able to hold onto the body to be here on this earth, to do some sort of work or whatever, just imagining experiencing things way way beyond the typical eat, sleep, work, reproduce/family life cycle lol, its ridiculous really, but the key is not not be into that sort of thing, just make yourself Happy and Healthy first, get that down, make it an absolute (its not done via the intellect or teachings) then go from there, see what arises within You, if if Enlightenment is in your potential it will manifest itself naturally:!  

Edited March 17 by Ishanga

[bammy32]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I appreciate all higher states of consciousness. Just gotta be careful not to get stuck in them.

1) I have experienced levels of consciousness which rendered all human spirituality teachings as ridiculous. This made me disillusioned with all human spiritual teachings, because they are all wrong in the end. I can't be bothered to take human spiritual teachings seriously any more because that illusion has been shattered for me. I place very little value in anything spiritual that humans say. That's just where I'm at. With that said, as you say, for everyday human life those teachings are still valuable. Because the consciousness I experienced is impractical and even dangerous and antithetical to human life.

Great, balanced, mature reply Leo. Never goes unnoticed when you show patience, understanding and restraint and take the higher road in face of a personal attack, accusation or ignorant projection, especially with a topic like this. Just calling it out to let you know that such a thing inspires me with Love the most.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Jannes said:

Not sure if I understand exactly what you said. It is the goal to get stuck in them. Or do you mean that you shouldn't get stuck in them in the sense that you shouldn't see them as the end goal?

Just because it is high does not mean there isn't something above it.

7 hours ago, Jannes said:

But when you say it still has value for everyday human existence, why do you not want to do it, you still have an everyday human existence

I am for raising your consciousness however works for you.

7 hours ago, Jannes said:

So is human spirituality the best that human can practically do or can it be reinvented?

I don't know. It probably varies from person to person what is achievable.

7 hours ago, Jannes said:

So you think they actually locked in the fantasy and not the higher state of consciousness?

They lock in a higher state of consciousness plus a fantasy about it.

[Davino]

On 17/3/2024 at 0:25 AM, Leo Gura said:

Different people will have different "natural" states. Your state is a function of your genetics, first and foremost.

Funny enough he explains it in the same way as you did. He says that after the point of no return you will be who you actually were before all the wiring made by society, family, meditation and spirituality. He explains that it takes still some time to dissolve all of that, because some conditioning cannot be dissolved after there is truly no center. When this process of cleansing and conditioning is complete after the shift: You will be naturally you, whatever that is for you.

I would like to note that after the shift took place in Frank Yang he started recommending psychedelics. One trip every month and a breakthrough 5meo dose a year. He said psychedelics are a great catalyst for dissolving but that in the end the methodology becomes irrelevant as you will also become awake and free from the particular tool you are using, being it psychedelics or meditation. I found this last point interesting and I only heard it from Adi Da Samraj before. In this line of approach, there seems to be a final discard of methodology and tools. Adi da says that the last stroke of egoity is the tool itself for awakening and that this is the last speck to dissolve and become continuosly free. I have no methodology to keep consciousness in place. It is always already the case. It is what it is. Adi Da

 

On 17/3/2024 at 1:03 AM, Leo Gura said:

You can't experience anything which you are not.

Regarding this I would like to ask you about the topic of identity. Some people say that you should realize what you are, let's say consciousness, but identifying with it and making an identity out of it is wrong, you are trying to fill a glass with the whole ocean. Other say that you have to reflect the truths you have awoken to and if you are consciousness and that's your real identity then it is natural to say I am consciousness as well, and rewire your identity arround consciousness. Others say that if you realize that you are consciousness that really means, no identity at all, and you cannot make an identity out of it, or said in another way, the identity of consciousness is no identity at all or all identities simultaneously and identity itself.

I'm a bit confused regarding this topic of identity, after the same awakening, consciousness is all there is, each individual takes different paths regarding their own identity. You awaken to your nature but then the role of identity that awakening triggers seems to be diverse. I would like to hear what you have to say on identity

[Davino]

@CosmicExplorer Literally what he says is in perfect accordance with what I said. Pain yes but no suffering. As pain is a first order phenomena and suffering is a made out of the first one, resisting what is. If what is, is suffering that is fine, you don'r resist either pain nor pleasure. In fact, pain and pleasure are seen as codependently arising. That's what he says, I'm not having his experience but this seems to be very consistent and clear. The tweet you posted says the exact same thing. Otherwise, please explain me the disonance

[Davino]

On 17/3/2024 at 9:51 AM, Leo Gura said:

Emotional suffering will also arise when shit hits the fan. Don't be fooled. No one is above that. They are just pretending.

@Leo Gura You sure about that? I am certainly open to both possibilities.

 

I like this little story of Sri Anandamayi. I'm well aware that it is not relatable to anyone. She was born with rare genetics and an insane level of God-Realization. I like to study her case to see what is really possible under the sun, you may surely have seen the section I have here of her. It's like an alien of Awakening.

Quote

On one occasion Sri Anandamayi came to our house. In the course of our talk I said casually,-"It appears, Ma, that to you hot and cold are the same. If a piece of burning coal fell on your feet, would you not feel the pain?" She replied, "Just test it."

I did not press the point further. After a few days, taking up the thread of our previous conversation, Mother placed a piece of burning coal on Her foot. There was deep burning sore. For one month it did not heal up. I felt very upset about that silly suggestion of mine. 

One day I found Her in the verandah with her legs stretched out and Her gaze fixed on the sky. Some pus had gathered on the sore. I bowed down and licked the pus up with my tongue and lips. From the following day the sore began to heal up.

I asked Mother how She felt when the live coal was burning Her flesh. She said in reply, " I was not aware of any pain. It looked like nothing but fun; with great joy I watched what the poor wretched coal was doing on my foot; I noticed that at first some hairs, then the skin began to burn; it smelt of burn and gradually the coal was put out after doing its work. "When later a sore formed, it continued its course; but as soon as a strong desire arose in you that the wound be healed up soon, it took a rapid turn for the better."

Are all of these just stories? I'm open to both possibilities

[emil1234]

On 17.3.2024 at 0:25 AM, Leo Gura said:

They can be distinguished as facets or aspects, but to make linear stages out of them is wrong.

I didn't avoid your question.

Whatever his baseline is, it's one state of possibly millions. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with his state. But to frame it as some kind of 'natural' or ultimate state is silly. Different people will have different "natural" states. Your state is a function of your genetics, first and foremost.

Comparing all these states is very hard because they are just qualitatively different from each other.

Just because he was able to achieve that state does not mean you will be able to. You might have a different natural state. You guys are overlooking just how different people are and all the wild variations that exist with consciousness.

in support of the argument against the "natural" state:

this person claims she reached the "natty state" as refered to by frank, and while her experience sounds similar to franks', its also vastly different, claiming she encounters entities, out of body experiences, feeling peoples emotions etc.

what i dont like about frank yang is that he somewhat attempts to invalidate all former states of consciousness, (god, awareness, brahman) as totally invalid and mere side quests on the way to the "natural state", as if the natural state is the only true realization

[Davino]

@emil1234 That's an interesting video, thanks

[Adrian colby]

Mysticism and theaergy is like talking about ‘rest’.

simple, hyper rational and hyper logical (although when you reach it logic and reason no longer apply)

greek, indian or egyptian mysticism is based on seeking by negation or engaging in retroductive analysis.

Mystical union is based in ‘objective’ negation. You can’t engage in subjective negation unless you are a nihilist or a “buddhist”. (this is where I understand where Leo is coming from) I quotation mark the word buddhist because people who call themselves buddhist are participating in a secularised version of the philosophy based on misinterpretation of the ancient poly language it was originally written in. For example when it was written  “there is no soul in the body” that did not mean there is no soul. It is referring to the body as a signal receiver and the signal does not reside in the body, nor does the signal disappear after the body is gone. Energy when it is modulating has different modalities and they exist (albeit temporarily) in different degrees of limitation from tangible to intangible. like water can be a solid, a liquid or a gas or even plasma if you reach a vibratory rate of capacitance when it begins to become light

It means that we see ourselves as something other than that which we truly are.. We initially or mistakenly see ourselves as the flesh, the appearance of a solidnself which is not the true self as all of that fades away.

When it fades away what is left is a ‘rest’ state or the true self. This ‘signal projects into the dream of solid appearance all of which is imagined and experienced via consciousness.

 

Everything in the psychophysical is described as varying degrees of hell as it is the rest state in a constant state of agitation. Action agency and work. Consciousness is the experience of what everything that manifests, ‘is’.

 

the subjugation of becoming: modulation, disturbance, agitation, action, agency, work

 

all the varying modes and practices of mysticism seeking the absolute is the removal of modulation, disturbance agitation, action, agency, work. To bring the seeker back to the rest state or the true self. 

 

There’s ‘nothing’ there other than the fundamental understanding of where ‘everything’ comes from. 

 

The second the true self rest state moves, all of existence occurs. It becomes existence. I describe this as a coin with two sides. While it is fundamentally one thing it is also another yet altogether still a tautology (the coin) On one side there is infinity which is a rest state of absolute nothing, a container of potential(awareness). On the other side there is an infinity of consciousness which is the psychophysical self that becomes all of existence (a projection of awareness into the varying different states of limitation). Leo is exploring the infinite consciousness space including all the states of consciousness itself that there are to explore. It is infinite and endless. The spectrum is endless. When you reach the rest state of the absolute you realise what you are and what you are is the absolute exploring itself through the creation of infinite conscious existence. Tah dah! I am Leo….

 

Fuck, did that just happen?

 

Removing that which you are not.. but people keep asking how. It’s like asking what you want. If you say you want something like an apple, people tend to be… right ok, that is something objective and you want it, but if you say you want ‘nothing’, they look at you like you have 10 heads. Negation is like telling someone about rest. to find your true self in absolutism you have to have the realisation your fundamental self is a state of rest or absolute nothing. few people get it conceptually. you can’t point at rest. it’s not objective but you can only get there by negating the objective or at least the attachment to it. everyone is so used to energy in a state of agitation or the observation of the universe of perpetual movement, agitation, objectivity that they cannot see beyond it to grasp the concept of nothing. What you are doing is the abstraction of awareness out of consciousness. The taking of the absolute back to its infinite singularity by the negation of its infinite and perpetual agitation state of ‘experiencing’ to simply ‘being’. 

 

 

mystical union would therefor be the absolute becoming existence and finding its way back to itself via consciousness. it is achieved through abstraction or retroduction by way of consciousness. Knowing itself through the exploration of its infinite creation including its own states of consciousness which is what Leo is doing.

 

don’t get stuck in the absolute, that is the beginning and end of your experience. you can go there for ‘rest’ but go explore everything created and experienced by consciousness. People who get stuck in the absolute end up suffering from meaninglessness or nihilism when the psychophysical self attaches to it. I understand it is a phase that most go through on their journey.

 

 Consciousness is like the full ‘experience’ that is perceived by awareness and it is not limited to just the solid form modality. Our individual conscious experiences can extend beyond the limits of the physical experience. Everything with mass and magnitude has a beginning and end in time. if you can point to it, it is not the transcendent self, however, everything that you can point to is the manifestation of the transcendent self exploring its infinity so when you are done dismissing it to find the fundamental, come back again and begin to explore it ‘as the fundamental self’ free of attachment to the objective or psychophysical self.

[CosmicExplorer]

what he says is in perfect accordance with what I said. Pain yes but no suffering. As pain is a first order phenomena and suffering is a made out of the first one, resisting what is. If what is, is suffering that is fine, you don'r resist either pain nor pleasure. In fact, pain and pleasure are seen as codependently arising.

I asked him if he could theoretically do self-immolation and not suffer during it, and he started making excuses (it's from a comment in his last video on yt) and said his pain tolerance is higher when lifting weights lol. Someone who would be free from suffering would be able to do self-immolation with perfect calm without any problem, being waterboarded, sit with no back support in meditation for 16h repetitively... Read my Reddit post I linked in this thread it's a good summary of my thoughts about it

1 hour ago, Davino said:

I like this little story of Sri Anandamayi. I'm well aware that it is not relatable to anyone. She was born with rare genetics and an insane level of God-Realization. I like to study her case to see what is really possible under the sun, you may surely have seen the section I have here of her. It's like an alien of Awakening.

 

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Are all of these just stories? I'm open to both possibilities

People exist who can burn themselves and not react to sensations until they feel the smell of burning flesh - and they don't give a fuck about spirituality, it's just their genetics https://news.sky.com/story/rare-genetic-mutation-allows-british-woman-75-to-feel-no-pain-12888007 doesn't say much

[Davino]

4 hours ago, CosmicExplorer said:

asked him if he could theoretically do self-immolation and not suffer during it, and he started making excuses (it's from a comment in his last video on yt) and said his pain tolerance is higher when lifting weights lol. Someone who would be free from suffering would be able to do self-immolation with perfect calm without any problem, being waterboarded, sit with no back support in meditation for 16h repetitively...

I am not interested in the topic of end of pain, just anecdotally.

However, I'm a bit more interested into the suffering question, as buddhist talk so much about it.

You seem to confuse these two things a lot, hence the misunderstanding.

What is the difference between pain and suffering for you?

For me it's pretty clear. Pain is the raw sensation. Suffering is a construction, disonance and resistance with the what is.

You can get tortured and experience great pain. That is clear. But afterwards, one can be happy or suffer from that the rest of their life. In that difference is my inquiry. 

4 hours ago, CosmicExplorer said:

Read my Reddit post I linked in this thread it's a good summary of my thoughts about it

Yes, I did the first time I answered to your post.

4 hours ago, CosmicExplorer said:

People exist who can burn themselves and not react to sensations until they feel the smell of burning flesh - and they don't give a fuck about spirituality, it's just their genetics https://news.sky.com/story/rare-genetic-mutation-allows-british-woman-75-to-feel-no-pain-12888007 doesn't say much

Some people are born without inner self talk. Are they the best meditators then? No

The point is not to have a specificity and then generalise it but seeing the specificity I pointed of Sri Anandamayi Ma in the full context of her life. Not trying to prove God Realization or anything by the mere withstanding  of pain blisfully. That makes no sense.

 

[Leo Gura]

14 hours ago, Davino said:

Regarding this I would like to ask you about the topic of identity. Some people say that you should realize what you are, let's say consciousness, but identifying with it and making an identity out of it is wrong, you are trying to fill a glass with the whole ocean. Other say that you have to reflect the truths you have awoken to and if you are consciousness and that's your real identity then it is natural to say I am consciousness as well, and rewire your identity arround consciousness. Others say that if you realize that you are consciousness that really means, no identity at all, and you cannot make an identity out of it, or said in another way, the identity of consciousness is no identity at all or all identities simultaneously and identity itself.

I'm a bit confused regarding this topic of identity, after the same awakening, consciousness is all there is, each individual takes different paths regarding their own identity. You awaken to your nature but then the role of identity that awakening triggers seems to be diverse. I would like to hear what you have to say on identity

My position is: Your true identity is God.

The only trick is becoming conscious of what that entails.

In practice the way identity works is that you can identify with anything, from the most limited to completely unlimited (Infinity) and anything in between.

Your identity is bascially a function of your state of consciousness. Depending on what state of consciousness you're in you will identify with various things. And the higher your state the more you will identify as everything until eventually you reach pure formless Infinity.

Edited March 19 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

7 hours ago, Davino said:

Some people are born without inner self talk.

What does this mean. They don't have a monkey mind? They don't have a mind? They don't talk inwardly to themselves? They don't think? Explain please. Never heard of this.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

What does this mean. They don't have a monkey mind? They don't have a mind? They don't talk inwardly to themselves? They don't think? Explain please. Never heard of this.

No internal voice.

Think of a cat. You don't think it talks to itself in its own mind.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

No internal voice.

Think of a cat. You don't think it talks to itself in its own mind.

Just pure instincts then?

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

Just pure instincts then?

Don't talk to yourself for a few minutes and see how it feels.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Don't talk to yourself for a few minutes and see how it feels.

Ok give me a sec, let me try. 5mins.