The importance of Suffering

[Peacelily]

On 29/02/2024 at 7:57 AM, Inliytened1 said:

Shadow work is hard especially those who have suffered, yet there is light at the end.  Thoughts can creep back If one isn’t able to express and bring it outwards. I realised how my thoughts could fill the universe, I stood still, I realised that when tomorrow comes, todays thoughts will be the past, and so for me the only way was to quiet the mind.
 

Though I needed to express and bring it outwards,  and so I began painting instead of thinking, I would express through art, and something beautiful happened here, it was like someone was working through me, I was able to see the thoughts/emotions, and the messages within from the self,  from the subconscious. This is why art is so beautiful! Sharing these were a way for me to express and bring them outwards. For some it may be ok to just know, but for others they need to bring it outwards, whether through poetry, art, music or even stories, they are their emotions and thoughts and they are meant to be shared, it is this network that helps us connect and awaken to the web of consciousness, and why so many of us can relate or feel close to certain art. Expressing is the release! 

Nature is all around you, not what you see! 

[Breakingthewall]

The reality is that if you want to open yourself to total existence you must open yourself to the face of existence that is yin, destruction, violence, disease, torture, oppression and isolation. When we talk about suffering we talk about moving away from suffering, with this mental dynamic duality is created and with it falsehood. All spiritual teachers sell the paradise of ala, milk honey and hot girls, in one way or another. They are scammers with a beatific smile who want your attention. There are not shortcuts, if you want the whole, the whole is whole. 

[LSD-Rumi]

21 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Leo Gura I figured out the Buddhist\ New age simplistic and flawed definition of Enlightenment. They mistake it for the slight increase in consciousness when you focus on the moment and mere existence and see that everything around you is made out of consciousness\nothingness. Then they say "You are already enlightened!!! there is nothing to do, etc...".Of course, What they describe is a high level of mindfulness. What they dismiss is that there are much higher levels of consciousness\ insights.

@Breakingthewall What do you think about this?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Breakingthewall What do you think about this?

I think it's more or less like that, and that in the best cases, in the worst cases it is spirituality with religious ideas about past lives, demons, angels and so on.

I think the problem is that without psychedelics it is very difficult for someone to truly go deeper and begin to understand what reality is. I know two people who have done several vipassana retreats, that is extremely hard, and they have had no use at all, only self-help and also a short-lived effect, since in a month or two they are the same as always, with anxiety.

There are people who can access what we can call mysticism, openness to the unlimited, whatever you call It, without psychedelics, but they are few, the majority will remain at a superficial level.

But the problem is that psychedelics are very deceptive, they have a fundamental component of deception, you have to realize that. Our psyche doesn't want to open and that's why it doesn't, you give it a chemical and you break its defenses, but it will always hold on, it will remain in part, it will come back and appropriate the experience, define it and convert it in part of his baggage. The objective of psychedelics is to acquire depth and show the psyche that opening is possible, that existence without structure does not mean madness or death, and then access depth in an increasingly normal and complete way. I think it is a fairly long and difficult process, and psychedelics deceive and inflate the ego, everyone thinks they are more advanced than Buddha and Jesus Christ combined from day one, when what we are is still trapped in our mental structure.

[Schizophonia]

10 hours ago, puporing said:

It's just the way it is, means you're close to being a Saint probably. A Saint suffers and almost compulsively tries to protect the vulnerable.

I actually mostly see it as a form of denial, i think that the savior is too afraid of being unmasked because he was traumatized (humiliated? attacked?) about being weak or at least not reliable enough.  So we hide behind a pseudo-hyper-masculine leader mask, and we experience our vulnerability vicariously.

But ultimately the trauma persists and even gets worse because we identify with someone who hopes to be loved by enduring the trauma and difficulties of others.
But it's difficult to love ourselves, because love is a vibration of abundance and we refer to a vibration of survival, of self-preservation (of the ego).

Obviously when I say "we", we are not the same person lol, but we understand each other, i think. 🤔

 

 

I don't believe in altruism, I think that we are fundamentally selfish, that we want to have sex, attention, games, food etc, and that there is ultimately a process of sublimation more or less serious.

 

10 hours ago, puporing said:

I'm not understanding very well what you were asking here. You are both the masculine and feminine. That's why I don't really care if people call me he or she or they.. it's just that "he" usually implies you could have both fem/masculine traits whereas when someone calls you a "she" it tends to box you in that one aspect.

My message was impulsive and I don't have any clear ideas about all of this yet, so I'm going to keep quiet for the moment, mea culpa.

 

[LSD-Rumi]

@Breakingthewall Thanks for the response! 

Yeah, psychedelics demand a unique mindset to navigate them effectively; otherwise, you might find yourself experiencing intense trips, only to return to your everyday life the next day without any profound insights gained, as many psychonauts do. Even just reading trip reports from some psychonauts make me gag. 

[Breakingthewall]

47 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Breakingthewall Thanks for the response! 

Yeah, psychedelics demand a unique mindset to navigate them effectively; otherwise, you might find yourself experiencing intense trips, only to return to your everyday life the next day without any profound insights gained, as many psychonauts do. Even just reading trip reports from some psychonauts make me gag. 

Really the question would be why psychedelics promote a deeper perception than sober, and why this is so. I think that because the normal human sober state is full of mental barriers and psychedelics dissolve them, but then if you have already done psychedelics 100 times, do those mental barriers still exist? it should not be like that. The objective is for the perception to be deeper and cleaner sober than with any psychedelic.

[LSD-Rumi]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

now two people who have done several vipassana retreats, that is extremely hard, and they have had no use at all, only self-help and also a short-lived effect, since in a month or two they are the same as always, with anxiety.

Some people have deep traumas and negative energy stored in their bodies, they will keep having anxieties\depression until these traumas are confronted and the negative energy is released.

Personally, psychedelics was the only tool that helped me in releasing this negative energy. You can sense this energy lodged within your very bones, so to speak, and traditional methods failed in helping me to release it.

But being mentally ill for so long, made using psychedelics extremely hard for me. Deep traumas make the psychedelic extremely difficult depending on how bad the trauma is.

Edited March 15 by LSD-Rumi

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Personally, psychedelics was the only tool that helped me in releasing this negative energy. You can sense this energy lodged within your very bones, so to speak, and traditional methods failed in helping me to release it.

But being mentally ill for so long, made using psychedelics extremely hard for me. Deep traumas make the psychedelic extremely difficult depending on how bad the trauma is

For me is quite similar. Psychedelics have allowed me to see energy blockages and completely release them. Without that it would have been impossible. The most useful has undoubtedly been 5meo DMT, but others too. Without psychedelics it is literally impossible, the energetic pattern that you are must be broken and rebuilt again and again, it takes some courage to do this, but when you see the path you do not hesitate.

But once the trauma is completely resolved, your energy flows in an aligned and perfect way, that is when you can begin to truly open to what existence is, and what this human life is. They are also useful then. For putting an example, psychedelics can open you to a dimension of sex that is very difficult without them, and the same for many other things. once the inner restructuring is done, true perception begins

[puporing]

13 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I actually mostly see it as a form of denial, i think that the savior is too afraid of being unmasked because he was traumatized (humiliated? attacked?) about being weak or at least not reliable enough.  So we hide behind a pseudo-hyper-masculine leader mask, and we experience our vulnerability vicariously.

This is an understanding based on your current level of consciousness projected onto me, but that's okay it's bound to happen. Almost everything I do is not about "me" the avatar anymore, I would say since a few years ago but especially the last year or so. And whether I lean more into the masculine or feminine depends entirely on the environment/situation at hand, I actually lean feminine more often when interacting with most people who are not in a spiritual community. Though I guess when I'm alone I lean more masculine.. because it's a more complete state.
 

13 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I don't believe in altruism, I think that we are fundamentally selfish, that we want to have sex, attention, games, food etc, and that there is ultimately a process of sublimation more or less serious.

well you can transcend a lot of this. Ofc there'll always be some survival so long as you're in the body due to the way this environment is. I have almost no interest in things like dating these days because I am a teacher with just about everyone, I mean I just don't feel that way about 99.99999% of the population sadly.. if I'm lucky maybe find some platonic kind of connection. And most people only choose to see my more feminine aspect and much of my actual consciousness is totally invisible. Not to be mean but I see how people's mind works very quickly and generally it's not attractive to me in that way other than being a teacher/healer/friend of some sort. So yeah.. that's just what happens and you accept it.  

The thing is "Christ consciousness" is antithetical to ego consciousness which is what most people are in. So even a guy who is maybe more spiritual but has a big ego, is not gonna like my consciousness and vice versa. You'll just end up in a situation where you're constantly trying to "fix" each other. It can be dangerous too. 

Edited March 16 by puporing

[Buck Edwards]

I give a lot of importance to suffering. In fact all of my insights and who I am as a person today is the direct product of suffering. 

 

[Buck Edwards]

There's only one word for Christ Consciousness - kindness 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

There's only one word for Christ Consciousness - kindness 

Christ wasn't a very kind guy many times. So if you believe in Christ, clearly his kindness was not what made him special.

There are many ordinary people on this planet who are more kind that Christ was. And you don't regard them as special or important.

Edited March 17 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Christ wasn't a very kind guy many times.

Not being kind is also kindness. 

 

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Buck Edwards said:

Not being kind is also kindness.

Nice mental gymnastics.

[Buck Edwards]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Nice mental gymnastics.

You can't be kind to everyone. Fact of life. 

[Buck Edwards]

@Leo Gura it's more like if someone slaps you and you turn the other cheek, then they slap you again.  you gotta make up your mind if you wanna turn your other  cheek once more. 

[Razard86]

On 3/16/2024 at 9:10 PM, Leo Gura said:

Christ wasn't a very kind guy many times. So if you believe in Christ, clearly his kindness was not what made him special.

There are many ordinary people on this planet who are more kind that Christ was. And you don't regard them as special or important.

John 2:15 

"So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables."

Matthew 23:27-28

"“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."

^^^ Can people stop cherry picking Jesus. What made Jesus special is he spoke truth to power. He was a rebel. He called out bullshit without remorse. He was the first example of non-violent resistance which Ghandi and Martin Luther King also did in their life which is why they are all revered. They all took beatings, and other forms of humiliation and powerlessness and ultimately were murdered for what they stood for. They are celebrated because most people are ruled by fear of death and thus wouldn't stand for something. They also had the ability to still love those who harmed them and forgave them. This is only possible because they tapped into the love of God which made them embodied beings.

Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “If a man has not found something worth dying for, he is not fit to live."

 

 

[Bobby_2021]

I don't get why people romanticise and glorify suffering. You clearly didn't think like that while you were going through it. You wanted it to end as soon as possible.

So why this glorification? Suffering is mostly you own creating. Something you impose on yourself out of your own choice. It has it's value, but nothing that is to be kept on a pedestal. 

[James123]

On 3/17/2024 at 4:18 AM, Buck Edwards said:

You can't be kind to everyone. Fact of life. 

Believe me you can. Check out Rumi.