The importance of Suffering

[Ishanga]

Suffering is needed until You come to Realization of Truth, then you know suffering is no longer needed, is self created..Pain is real, it is good that we have Pain, but Suffering comes from Mind mostly, Humans Suffer, really no other life suffers like us, we have a million ways to Suffer, its mental, Egoic, and disempowers life. Life is there to Grow, Intensify, Glow, Exemplify all that is a Miracle on all grounds, if You really Realize Life, then all You know is Miracle after Miracle, how is it all happening like it is on this planet, within this Body, and all around You, its only a Miracle, Suffering has nothing to do with this!

[BipolarGrowth]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Has nothing to do with suffering.

Equating Consciousness with the avoidance of suffering is just a grotesque abomination unto God.

Well, it seems like you are the expert on this, so who am I to say differently? 
 

I’ll give my take on what you said, and if you want, you can clear things up for me further. Are you saying that raising Consciousness and God Realization have no relationship whatsoever with suffering? From videos and teachings you’ve given in the past on this topic, it seems like God Realization and awakening tend to bring about states of intense bliss and lessened suffering. This is going quite a ways back, but if we consider your video on 30 days of back to back 5-MeO, you seemed to be reporting awakening that was closer to peak bliss and further from suffering than prior awakenings. 
 

Whenever I have seen you report a new depth of awakening, it appears to me to in part be you seeing this new level as more awesome and profound which I would think comes in part from you resisting Consciousness less and allowing yourself to sync up even more fully to God. 
 

Also, avoidance of suffering sounds like a form of aversion to consciousness. The path to less suffering is about becoming less averse to suffering to actually reduce it. Resistance felt to be coming from an individual ego self seems to rather predictably create states of lower consciousness rather than higher consciousness to me. I think of it in this sense: less aversion to what consciousness is appearing as in a moment and less desire for consciousness to be something other that what it is currently presenting itself as ends up lessening the illusion of an ego which in turn allows God to see God as God without a fake personality trying to break up the union of God with God which is already the case yet less noticeable with an ego in the way. Bliss can relax the ego so it can be seen through easier and more fully. 

[Water by the River]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccidānanda

Well, not exactly a new observation of which yours truly is apparently not stopping to mumble about, that the realization of the [Infinite] Being (sat) and cit ([Infinite]consciousness) brings ananda (bliss, liberation)...

"Saccidānanda (सच्चिदानन्द; pre-sandhi form sat-cit-ānanda) is a compounded Sanskrit word consisting of "sat", "cit", and "ānanda", all three considered as inseparable from the nature of ultimate reality called Brahman in Hinduism.[9] The different forms of spelling is driven by euphonic (sandhi) rules of Sanskrit, useful in different contexts.[9]

sat (सत्):[10] In Sanskrit, sat means "being, existence", "real, actual", "true, good, right", or "that which really is, existence, essence, true being, really existent, good, true".[10][note 2]

cit (चित्):[12] means "consciousness" or "spirit".[13][14][15]

ānanda (आनन्द):[16] means "happiness, joy, bliss", "pure happiness, one of three attributes of Atman or Brahman in the Vedanta philosophy".[16] Loctefeld and other scholars translate ananda as "bliss".[13][14]

Satcitananda is therefore translated as "truth consciousness bliss",[8][17][18] "reality consciousness bliss",[19][20] or "Existence Consciousness Bliss".[7]"

 

All of that reminds me of this little anecdote:

A guy dies and is sent to hell. Extremely frightened because of that, he is very surprised when he arrives; beach, palm trees, sun is shining, happy people around in shorts and bikinis. Behind the next corner there are people eating great food and there's some cool music playing. After some time of wondering, a man in an expensive suit approaches him and says: "Hi, you must be the new one. Welcome to hell, I'm the devil. As you're gonna spend eternity here, make yourself comfortable and have a drink. If anything bothers you, always feel free to ask me." The guy still doesn't really understand what's going on, this is not what he expected. But finally he decides to inspect the area. Everywhere he goes, there are people laughing and having a great time, there's games, party and fun all around. Then he arrives at a steep cliff that divides the paradise hell from an area underneath, and there is hell as we know it: demons torturing the doomed, there's fire and the smell of brimstone. Shocked, he runs to the devil and says "Devil, how can that be? Here, we have the sweet eternity and down there people are tortured and burned! How can that be?!" The devil laughs and says "Oh, that. That's the Catholics - they want it that way."

But well, its a free country...

 

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Bliss can relax the ego so it can be seen through easier and more fully. 

Exactly. And when the True Infinite Impersonal Boundless Being (aka Awakened Awareness) starts becoming clearer and clearer, that bliss starts flowing. Without the need for any experience/state/"changing of what currently is the case" required. Releasing the ego/separation-contraction. Killing it softly.

And it is that bliss in which the endless hamster mill of "grasping activities/state-chasing/projects of the separate-self/ego chasing states/salvation via experiences to escape the suffering/resistance to the here/now" drowns for good... 

 

Selling Sat Chit Ananda by the River & smiling at the hungry crocodiles

 

PS: The separate-self IS the cyclical suffering/resistance to what is. Until that is seen through/transcended for good, no Sat Chit Ananda with "on-board-devices".

Edited March 10 by Water by the River

[Yimpa]

Suffering is imaginary. 

Be wise in how you use imagination 

[koops]

There is still confusion between end of suffering and God/Truth realization/ Oness.

You can realize God and still suffer from a break up, busines failures etc...

So... whats the (practical) point of reaching God Realization?

Ha! Ponder that question. Who is asking? Who wants the 'practical' benefits? Why?

 

Thats why people get depressed reading Jed McKenna books.

He makes a very clear distinction between aliviating suffering, blissful states  and reaching Truth.

 

 

 

[Water by the River]

"In the past I used to struggle with that. I had about a 6-12 month period where I felt like I was losing my mind and things were somewhat erratic and even dangerous. A few times I came close to physical death. But eventually, with even more awakenings and inner work my mind reached a new level of stability and groundedness. Insane groundedness and peace. I am profoundly happy much of the time now. I bask in GOD's infinite beauty everyday. My consciousness glows with GOD-realization and my mind has become poetry. That is the upshot of all this work."

"When you realize reality is Perfect, that GOD is Perfect, you just surrender to it and you are happy and at peace.

The ego is always trying to manipulate its way into a better reality. But with Awakening you realize there is no better reality than to surrender to GOD's Perfection."

"You must let the beauty of consciousness penetrate you.

If you are not overjoyed with your own consciousness then it's not awakening.

The highest consciousness is so delighted in itself it is in endless joy. God needs nothing outside itself to be endlessly happy and satisfied.

If you feel incomplete or something is bugging you -- if lack of other is bugging you -- that just means a serious lack of consciousness. So you ain't done with the work.

Awakening is the realization of Absolute Perfection. Nothing at all is wrong or missing.

A hallmark of full awakening is zero fear. You are too conscious to fear anything."

 

"I have Awoken so profoundly that I opened a portal inside my skull to a colorful Infinite Cartoon landscape full of striped and polka-dotted sentient Alien creatures doing cartwheeels, backflips, and helicoptering around.

I have Awoken to an Infinite dreamscape of pure fun and Love!

I gained complete access to imagine the Universe any way I want. That is what true God-Realization means. If you think I've gone insane, I've gone way beyond any insanity a human can ever imagine. It's the most amazing thing I've ever experienced and the happiest I've ever been in my life.

I'm explain more later. For now I'm having too much in fantasy land.

Cheers!

As I've told you guys before, reality is all in your Mind. Only now I have completely broke through every last limit of my Mind. The only problem is, ya'll are still stuck in your human dreams and it would take a nuclear explosion to break you free from your closedmindedness. So don't come whining to me about that. I am only responsible for my Mind."

"It goes beyond any one example. Just the fact that reality is imaginary is my deepest love for reality. If reality was anything other than imaginary, I would be deeply disappointed at the stupidity of reality.

The first time I realized reality was imaginary was the happiest day of my life. I said, "Thank God! Of course! Finally it makes sense."

If reality was not imaginary it would be an insult to intelligence because then reality would be limited. But of course reality cannot be limited because there exists nothing outside of reality to limit it, and this is the greatest thing about reality."

Bold markings by yours truly.

And now tell me that you are not doing it to be happy & blissfull & ease the suffering. And that True God Realization is not salvation & potential for an end of suffering.

Ok. Already done.

 

And True Being/Infinite Consciousness is not the avoidance of suffering. It is bliss itself. Sat Chit Ananda. It is the origin and true home of all bliss, The bliss each and every being longs for, and knows in its heart as its True Home. The bliss of True Infinite Being, Reality itself.

You have tasted that.

Hallelujah!

 

Selling Hallelujah at the River

 

[Yimpa]

The reason why Leo removed “You are Leo” from his bio is because it’s a reminder to forge your own path and vision for your life. Leo ain’t gonna do it for you, and nobody else will. This is how we reduce suffering - by taking full ownership of your life back.

[Inliytened1]

26 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

The reason why Leo removed “You are Leo” from his bio is because it’s a reminder to forge your own path and vision for your life. Leo ain’t gonna do it for you, and nobody else will. This is how we reduce suffering - by taking full ownership of your life back.

How would you know that for sure unless you were him?

 

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

How would you know that for sure unless you were him?

Just my hunch. In any case, just like one song can have infinite meaning, even beyond what the artist originally intended.

[Inliytened1]

@Water by the River God can appreciate bliss much more by first imposing limitations on itself- ultimately leading to its own suffering through that limitation trying to survive in a world beyond its limitation.   Through its need for control and pleasure - to forget its limitations.    Yes, only after the suffering brought about by its own hand, can it then shower itself with Infinite Bliss and Love.  For that is awakening.  One must go to sleep to awaken.

[koops]

35 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

"In the past I used to struggle with that. I had about a 6-12 month period where I felt like I was losing my mind and things were somewhat erratic and even dangerous. A few times I came close to physical death. But eventually, with even more awakenings and inner work my mind reached a new level of stability and groundedness. Insane groundedness and peace. I am profoundly happy much of the time now. I bask in GOD's infinite beauty everyday. My consciousness glows with GOD-realization and my mind has become poetry. That is the upshot of all this work."

"When you realize reality is Perfect, that GOD is Perfect, you just surrender to it and you are happy and at peace.

The ego is always trying to manipulate its way into a better reality. But with Awakening you realize there is no better reality than to surrender to GOD's Perfection."

"You must let the beauty of consciousness penetrate you.

If you are not overjoyed with your own consciousness then it's not awakening.

The highest consciousness is so delighted in itself it is in endless joy. God needs nothing outside itself to be endlessly happy and satisfied.

If you feel incomplete or something is bugging you -- if lack of other is bugging you -- that just means a serious lack of consciousness. So you ain't done with the work.

Awakening is the realization of Absolute Perfection. Nothing at all is wrong or missing.

A hallmark of full awakening is zero fear. You are too conscious to fear anything."

 

"I have Awoken so profoundly that I opened a portal inside my skull to a colorful Infinite Cartoon landscape full of striped and polka-dotted sentient Alien creatures doing cartwheeels, backflips, and helicoptering around.

I have Awoken to an Infinite dreamscape of pure fun and Love!

I gained complete access to imagine the Universe any way I want. That is what true God-Realization means. If you think I've gone insane, I've gone way beyond any insanity a human can ever imagine. It's the most amazing thing I've ever experienced and the happiest I've ever been in my life.

I'm explain more later. For now I'm having too much in fantasy land.

Cheers!

As I've told you guys before, reality is all in your Mind. Only now I have completely broke through every last limit of my Mind. The only problem is, ya'll are still stuck in your human dreams and it would take a nuclear explosion to break you free from your closedmindedness. So don't come whining to me about that. I am only responsible for my Mind."

"It goes beyond any one example. Just the fact that reality is imaginary is my deepest love for reality. If reality was anything other than imaginary, I would be deeply disappointed at the stupidity of reality.

The first time I realized reality was imaginary was the happiest day of my life. I said, "Thank God! Of course! Finally it makes sense."

If reality was not imaginary it would be an insult to intelligence because then reality would be limited. But of course reality cannot be limited because there exists nothing outside of reality to limit it, and this is the greatest thing about reality."

Bold markings by yours truly.

And now tell me that you are not doing it to be happy & blissfull & ease the suffering. And that True God Realization is not salvation & potential for an end of suffering.

Ok. Already done.

 

And True Being/Infinite Consciousness is not the avoidance of suffering. It is bliss itself. Sat Chit Ananda. It is the origin and true home of all bliss, The bliss each and every being longs for, and knows in its heart as its True Home. The bliss of True Infinite Being, Reality itself.

You have tasted that.

Hallelujah!

 

Selling Hallelujah at the River

 

 

Is not that simple

Take into account Leo's situation.

Huge channel, huge following, millionarie, smart, happy in solitude etc...

Is not just about God Realization.

Watch his last happiness video.

He even said that pursuing spirituality/awakening can take away happiness.

He said he is still afraid of running out of money.

Also, that story about that neighbors making noise to the point he had to move!

'but if he was enlightened... shouldn't that noise bother him?'

Well... there you got it.

Life situation can reduce your suffering more than enlightenment.

Think of Osho... I dont think he was happy in jail... he was probably suffering and wanted to get the fuck outta there!

 

Im not saying God realization won't lower your suffering and make your life better. Of course it can!

But is not a guarantee. In fact. He even said that some awakenings are terrifying.

Those quotes are written in a particular state.

That blissful state doesn't last forever.

 

[Princess Arabia]

34 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

The reason why Leo removed “You are Leo” from his bio is because it’s a reminder to forge your own path and vision for your life. Leo ain’t gonna do it for you, and nobody else will. This is how we reduce suffering - by taking full ownership of your life back.

Its because of all the Solipsism talk, and confusion around it.

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Just my hunch. In any case, just like one song can have infinite meaning, even beyond what the artist originally intended.

Just messing with ya

 

[BipolarGrowth]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Water by the River God can appreciate bliss much more by first imposing limitations on itself- ultimately leading to its own suffering through that limitation trying to survive in a world beyond its limitation.   Through its need for control and pleasure - to forget its limitations.    Yes, only after the suffering brought about by its own hand, can it then shower itself with Infinite Bliss and Love.  For that is awakening.  One must go to sleep to awaken.

The main course of Nonduality just ain’t as tasty without the appetizer of Duality. Not to mention the dessert of “no one did all that seeking to go absolutely nowhere.” 

Edited March 10 by BipolarGrowth

[BipolarGrowth]

@Water by the River I read Majjhima Nikāya 121 (Cūļasuññata Sutta - The Shorter Discourse on Voidness/Emptiness) the other day, and it seems to cover the “solipsism” concept fairly well. I wonder what your take is on this. 
 

“…There I heard and learned this in the presence of the Buddha: ‘Ānanda, these days I usually practice the meditation on emptiness.’ I trust I properly heard, learned, applied the mind, and remembered that from the Buddha?” 

“Indeed, Ānanda, you properly heard, learned, applied the mind, and remembered that. Now, as before, I usually practice the meditation on emptiness. 

Consider this stilt longhouse of Migāra’s mother. It’s empty of elephants, cows, horses, and mares; of gold and money; and of gatherings of men and women. There is only this that is not emptiness, namely, the oneness dependent on the mendicant Saṅgha. In the same way, a mendicant—ignoring the perception of the village and the perception of people—focuses on the oneness dependent on the perception of wilderness. Their mind becomes secure, confident, settled, and decided in that perception of wilderness. They understand: ‘Here there is no stress due to the perception of village or the perception of people. There is only this modicum of stress, namely the oneness dependent on the perception of wilderness.’ They understand: ‘This field of perception is empty of the perception of the village. It is empty of the perception of people. There is only this that is not emptiness, namely the oneness dependent on the perception of wilderness.’ And so they regard it as empty of what is not there, but as to what remains they understand that it is present. That’s how emptiness is born in them—genuine, undistorted, and pure…”

 

Edited March 10 by BipolarGrowth

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

The main course of Nonduality just ain’t as tasty without the appetizer of Duality. Not to mention the dessert of “no one did all that seeking to go absolutely nowhere.” 

Indeed   good to see you again......

 

Edited March 10 by Inliytened1

[Water by the River]

@BipolarGrowth

Yes, if one looks at the right places in Buddhist texts (and, for that matter, in any other spiritual -ISM), such stuff can be found:

 

On 25.10.2022 at 9:25 PM, Water by the River said:

"I am the teacher, pure and total consciousness, whence everything manifests. Pure and total consciousness is the supreme source, it has created the Buddhas of the three times, from it have arisen the beings of the three worlds and the whole animate and inanimate universe. [... ]

Pure and total consciousness has created everything and has not created anything. It has created everything because it has created its own nature, pure and total. It has not created anything because within it there exists no need to create. When my nature is not understood and the phenomena that manifest from me become the object of judgement, desire and attachment give rise to the creation of concrete vision that is impermanent and destined to vanish like a magical apparition, and one becomes like a blind man who does not know what is happening. [...I"

"As I transcend all affirmations and negations, I am beyond all phenomena. As no object exists that is not myself, I am beyond meditating on a view. As there is nothing to keep apart from myself, I am beyond a commitment to observe. As there is nothing to seek other than myself, I am beyond obtaining the capacity for spiritual action. As no place exists outside myself, I am beyond a level of realization to surpass. As I have never encountered obstacles, I am beyond [everything] as self-arising wisdom. As I am the ultimate unborn nature, I am beyond [everything] as the [true] subtle ultimate nature"

"I am called "the perfect condition" becauseeverything is contained in me. I am called "the source" because the teacher, teaching, and disciples arise from my three natures"

"I am the essence of all phenomena; nothing exists that is not my essence. The teachers of the three dimensions are my essence. The Buddhas of the three times are my essence. The Bodhisattvas are my essence. The four types of yogins are my essence. The three worlds, of desire, of form, and without form, too, are my manifestation. The five great elements are my essence. The six classes of beings are my essence. Everything inanimate is my essence. Everything that lives is my essence. All the habitats and the beings living therein are my essence. Nothing exists that is not my essence because I am the universal root: there is nothing that is not contained in me. The unborn, the wonder of birth, and the manifestation of energy are the three aspects of the three teachers: this is their condition."

"As the three times, past, present, and future, abide exclusively in me, all the Buddhas are in the same condition: this too is my essence. As I transcend the dualism of subject and object, like space I am allpervading, and I constitute the fundamental substance of all phenomena: my essence is pure and total consciousness. I, that am the source, abide in the single state, and in this same authentic condition the practitioners of the "four yogas"

"Realize my nature, the supreme source that is pure and total consciousness. Teach that all the phenomena of existence are only myself! If you transmit my teaching, all your disciples will realize my nature and will become this very nature.

"If my nature were to be compassionately displayed to the beings of the three worlds who have originated from me,....  Thus I, the supreme source, disclose my nature, displaying it to myself."

"Nothing other than this exists; none of the Buddhas have ever received a higher teaching than this from me, the source. Aside from this condition of equality beyond concepts, I myself, the supreme source whence everything arises, have absolutely nothing whatever to display to myself."

"Listen! As all of you are created by me, you beings of the three worlds are my children, equal to me, the supreme source. You are me, inseparable from me, so I manifest to you and through the five teachers of my natures I teach the single state of the five essences [of the elements]. I am the single state, I, the supreme source: you too are, you must become certain of this!"

"Listen, Sattvavajra! I will show you your own nature. You are me, the source. I am and have always been pure and total consciousness. What is pure and total consciousness?"

"Among all things existing in the animate and inanimate universe, there is not one single thing that has not been created by me, nor is there a cause that does not derive from me. Thus I am the essence of all, and nothing surpasses me. I am superior to the three dimensions, to the Buddhas of the three times, to the Vidyadharas, to the Bodhisattvas, to the beings of the three worlds, to the whole animate and inanimate universe, because I am the maker of all. Before there was any other teaching I, that am the source, pure and total consciousness, disclosed the teaching of pure and total consciousness."

It even received the verdict of God-Realization by our host. 

And while being not exactly humble, 

in a) the right enlightened state, something like that can be expressed truthfully, 

and b) with the right audience (just ready at the tipping point towards enlightenment with the ego pretty much transcended, just in need of these pointing out instructions to cross over),  it can even make sense and be beneficial. 

But since a) and b) don't often align, such texts were kept very secret in the traditions until recently.

Because if disclosed by non-a) to non-b), we get something  like here, and one God-Ego congratulates the other (or more often, jealously fights it), and both marvel in awe at ET-God n+1., um, yes where were we ... it can become an inflation of God-ego to cosmic proportions celebrating the Absolute Solipsism Narcicissm gig in hilarious ways, exactly walking in the opposite direction of salvation, and instead of transcending the ego it gets blown to infinite proportions,  ah, well, um, there is a high likelyhood of less than fortunate results.

But since exactly that is happening, and the geenie is out of the bottle, the mustard out of the tube, the cat up the tree, and since it is

anyways & always, since else it wouldnt be happening... 

Lets sit back and enjoy the show, and maybe gently tell some sensitive souls on which path is transcendence/salvation/Sat Chit Ananda and which path is ... you know, the gig with the hamsters, both from this earth and not from this earth.

Selling Solipsism the Supreme Source by the River

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, koops said:

 

Is not just about God Realization

It's about narcissism and lies . A small obstacle in the way that would be a good thing to overcome

Edited March 10 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Water by the River God can appreciate bliss much more by first imposing limitations on itself- ultimately leading to its own suffering through that limitation trying to survive in a world beyond its limitation.   Through its need for control and pleasure - to forget its limitations.    Yes, only after the suffering brought about by its own hand, can it then shower itself with Infinite Bliss and Love.  For that is awakening.  One must go to sleep to awaken.

True. In the meantime, I enjoy every dream at night that is not lucid, and am thankful when waking up on having been seduced by the dream to buy into it. Lets go to the movies!

 

I like Francis Lucilles take on things: For example, Suffering & Indian spices

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bnLNkG6uR-w

or this here:

and this here

 

Selling Indian Spices by the River

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

And True Being/Infinite Consciousness is not the avoidance of suffering. It is bliss itself. Sat Chit Ananda. It is the origin and true home of all bliss, The bliss each and every being longs for, and knows in its heart as its True Home. The bliss of True Infinite Being, Reality itself.

You have tasted that.

Hallelujah!

The absolute freedom , the total glory of existence, total happiness without stain. perfect, clear, infinitely deep. hallelujah is the word