The importance of Suffering

[Princess Arabia]

 

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Well, I guess, if you like drilling into the psyche of the people, then you also have to allow some drilling by the people, of the people, for the people. You know, sportsmanship and such. 

And lets take all the drilling with a grain of salt, and do the drilling it in style & humour. Which we all mostly do, I guess. 

Of course, I'm available to be drilled, called liar, insane, deceived, etc, then I would answer trying to develop my position to be understood. 

I may be completely wrong in everything I say, but two things are certain: what I say comes from direct vision and if it is mental speculation I usually say it, and I don't lie to appear to be more than I am

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

36 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Which we all mostly do, I guess. 

Of course. Lol.

 

Edited March 1 by Bazooka Jesus

[Water by the River]

29 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course, I'm available to be drilled, called liar, insane, deceived, etc, then I would answer trying to develop my position to be understood. 

I may be completely wrong in everything I say, but two things are certain: what I say comes from direct vision and if it is mental speculation I usually say it, and I don't lie to appear to be more than I am

I like that.

[Princess Arabia]

Awakening from suffering is equivalent to a bomb going off in your system. You've been perceiving life the wrong way and suffering so long that the suffering can't go anymore and pops like a balloon. 

The  body has been warning you all along through the suffering but you weren't listening to it or didn't know how to reset it, so it goes into homeostasis and reset itself again. That's just the body doing its thing.

Feelings of anxiety and depression are symptoms that your wiring is faulty and needs to be attended to. Smaller versions of this is anger but it can be so intense that it doesn't stay for long because it's too overwhelming for the body and it cannot sustain that type of intense emotion. That's why anger doesn't linger for long but it comes back after the cool down period. Overtime, stress will kill you but it takes time because of the adaptation process and coping mechanisms we use to stall the body's responses to it. 

Any negative emotion is a signal installed by Source for itself to realize when it's off course. When it's too immersed in the dream, though, it forgets and points the finger to something apparently outside of itself for making it feel that way not realizing that it itself has took a wrong turn and needs to navigate itself back on course.

So when you awaken from deep, deep, deep suffering that awakening will feel very intense just like being awakened from REM sleep and the body feels like it just went through an electrical shock.  The reason why most people don't awaken is because most people are just coasting through like thinking its normal but with consequences like anxiety, depression, mental illnesses like bipolar and Schizophonia and also the degenerative diseases because of the body's imbalance. They treat the symptoms which will eventually lead to other dis-ease.

This is why this and many other Spiritual communities are plagued with mental disorders because the energy is seeking relief from the contractions. This community is its refuge but it doesn't realize that it is disconnected from Source mentally, and will continue to seek until it comes to the realization that it is what its seeking. 

 

Edited March 1 by Princess Arabia

[Inliytened1]

On 2/29/2024 at 5:47 AM, Breakingthewall said:

@Water by the River

According to your publication about enlightenment, it seems that for you, you are god imagining reality, the past, the human avatar...how would you nuance this? Because this is very close to solipsism 

Sorry, I've been in monk mode since my awakening.  I shut away from all social media even my cell phone, and have just been sitting in meditation.

The waves of bliss were too much.  I wish i had never stopped meditating.

But yes, its not very close to solipsism - its Absolute Solipsism - meaning, you aren't part of God, you are the WHOLE of GOD.  You're the whole thing.

[Inliytened1]

On 2/29/2024 at 6:38 AM, Soul Flight said:

Suffering is the big blessing. Hindsight is 20/20. You don’t know what you got till it’s gone.

So maybe we should be envious of those who get the worst suffering in this world. Famine, genocide, concentration camps, torture, etc. The rich and powerful are self deluded.

The meek shall inherit the Earth.

Precisely.

[Inliytened1]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:29 AM, Razard86 said:

Solipsism doesn't negate your question. Solipsism directs the question to you.

Actually it does - because you are the only Consciousness in town, so of course you can awaken.   We see people die everyday and we wonder, why do some die young and others don't?  And why am I still here?  But notice - that we are just imagining other people dying, just like we are imagining that other people can or cannot awaken.   It's all imaginary, because you are God, and hence, you are the only thing that can awaken!

[Razard86]

39 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Actually it does - because you are the only Consciousness in town, so of course you can awaken.   We see people die everyday and we wonder, why do some die young and others don't?  And why am I still here?  But notice - that we are just imagining other people dying, just like we are imagining that other people can or cannot awaken.   It's all imaginary, because you are God, and hence, you are the only thing that can awaken!

Your not understanding what I am saying. If you created a video game you would be able to understand why Infinity of Gods does not negate Absolute Solipsism, it explains it by collapsing the paradox. You see if I go to your house right now Me and You share an Absolute Experience. The moment I leave your house from your perspective, I cease to exist, because you cease to imagine me. You cannot confirm I have any experience because your experience is what you imagine.

But here is the kicker. When I leave your house and drive away the same is true of me. This is why Absolute Solipsism confuses people. Infinity of Gods clears that up. Your human character is a relative partition of the Absolute, as such it is also the Absolute because of holography where the part is the whole. Just like in a video game. The illusion of this not being true is accomplished by creating a world of differences, of somethings.

But since the core essence of everything is nothing, and no qualia, no matter how many relative partitions you create it will always be the same as the whole. Every video game designer would understand this as whatever perspective they create is literally its own universe and can only be seperated by the illusion of difference. They accomplish this by creating a bunch of differences and then dropping one character in that area and then creating another and dropping that character in the other area. This is what Infinity of Gods points too. So this is why when everything collapses for the character, their body, and the scenery, all that is left is nothing, but nothing...is no where, no place, no person, and thus cannot be divided.

So this means that as such everything is always God, equal in creative power, and thus is the same source. As such...you CAN ask others....because THEY ARE YOU. You are currently using partition/limited intelligence, if you ask an other who accesses the Infinite Intelligence they can tell you. Obviously of course you can access the Infinite as well, but your intelligence and their intelligence has the same source. So there is NO DIFFERENCE between asking another and asking yourself. It's the same thing. 

 

Edited March 5 by Razard86

[Emerald]

On 2/29/2024 at 2:14 AM, Inliytened1 said:

Let's open it up - 

@Water by the River I would like to hear your thoughts .

I have come to the realization that suffering was the catalyst in my awakenings - the initial one of no self, (this includes the subsequent awakenings that came thereafter) and now, six years later, another awakening.  Again, suffering.  Yes, in the first one, i meditated, but after that they came spontaneously.   So i do beleive suffering was behind it - and the meditation just brought it home.

I didn't realize how important sufffering was in awakening until now.  I knew it was huge, but I didn't think I could ever awaken agani - until i expereinced immense suffering again - similar to what i felt 6 years back when i awoke.

Thoughts guys?

Note: This will be describing what I've learned in my medicine journeys... so it will be a bit surreal.

In my medicine journeys, it was shown to me that the purpose of my life is mercy (which is the polar opposite to suffering). And the reason why I was created is because there was part of infinite consciousness that couldn't tolerate infinite suffering.

So, it re-imagined a being called Emerald who is finite and imperfect and ordinary... who only has to deal with finite levels of suffering.

And in this soul's purpose of my life as Emerald being God's vacation from infinity (and especially infinite suffering)... I also have the option to realize a life's purpose where I seek mercy for myself and help other find mercy too if I should so choose and if it pleases me (though it isn't a requirement).

In my journeys from many angles, God has shown me how mercy and suffering are deeply interlinked with one another.

And it has shown me that to realize my life's purpose of mercy, I must drop resistance to suffering.

That's because there is no mercy to be had without suffering. Mercy can only be realized in the negative space where suffering once was.

So, mercy has no value except in relation to suffering. 

I have had constant upper back and neck pain since I was a small child that have been there every single day of my life.

And in one of the medicine experiences that I had, it was shown to me that I was holding all the mercy and suffering in existence in my throat and that's why I had all these physical issues.

And from behind my eyes, God (as a deeper element of my consciousness that was the foundation for my human consciousness) was showing me its relationship to mercy and suffering. 

My neck was swiveling around and around by itself (as it typically does in my journeys). And in that swiveling around... I was feeling the interplay between infinite suffering and infinite mercy. It was like an amusement park of suffering and mercy that existed right inside of my throat. 

And after a while, I could not tell where suffering ended and mercy began as they were becoming one and the same.

Then, God's consciousness (which sat behind my eyes with my human consciousness as a bystander) was playing tricks on itself in my scope of consciousness... where it would create suffering for itself and then reveal the mercy that had always been there the whole time.

It was like a parent playing peak-a-boo with a baby... and super mischievous. And it kept doing this, and through my facial muscles would shoot itself a mischievous grin at how much fun the trick was. It had been mercy the whole time... but it would trick itself into believing there's suffering for fun.

And I had gone into this ceremony with concerns of experiencing infinite suffering... since I have experienced in prior ceremonies that the consciousness that sits behind my eyes and God's consciousness are one and the same. And then knowing that I will (on some level) experience all the suffering in existence.

So, there was a concern that God was experiencing infinite suffering... which is why my consciousness got split off from the infinite in the first place. I saw the God mind and God heart experiencing all sufferings at the deepest levels... and I couldn't tolerate it. I wanted it all to go away. But the infinite must remain infinite... so suffering could not be abolished.

So, out of mercy to itself, God allowed that part of itself that could not accept infinite suffering to be finite Emerald.

And of course, after this experience, human Emerald was very concerned about God's suffering because I recognized it as one I would be experiencing once the Emerald illusion wore off.

But in this other journey, God was showing me that it was okay... and that it was so good at handling suffering, that the infinite interplay between mercy and suffering was just a game to it. And it could have fun with it. To its perspective, mercy and suffering were indistinguishable from one another

And it showed me that I didn't need to worry about being concerned about its suffering because it was the perfect parent. And that, unlike the way I was always worried about my own parents suffering as a small child, I didn't need to worry about its suffering.

And in fact, it would care-take my suffering because I was the finite one... and as a finite one, I didn't have to deal with the burden of infinite suffering. And it wouldn't expect me as the finite one to take on the infinite sufferings as Jesus had already done that and no one else needed to do it again. 

Then, it showed me that the way that it manages infinite suffering is by giving finite beings a finite amount of suffering (which would always pass). And it could split off any part of itself as a finite being to give itself mercy (like it did with me). And it could alleviate all suffering in any finite space by pushing it out further into the infinite.

And it alleviated all the suffering on the planet and showed me how easy it was. It then gave me the power to alleviate suffering. Just then, a man in the ceremonial space began to cry out in pain. I found out the next day that he had surfaced a repressed memory of a family member raping him as a child. But God let me wave my hand at him and alleviate his suffering... and the cries of pain slowly died down in sighs of mercy.

And it granted me the option to wipe the Earth clean of suffering.

It hit a discordant note to me to consider that, as there was some element of meaning that was lost (though I don't fully understand this now). I just imagined an image of humanity in one big circle holding hands and there was something empty about it.

So, I opted instead for the world to (very gradually) move out of suffering and into mercy (which had been the plan anyway). This would give mercy the proper contrast to be able to truly appreciate and give meaning to mercy (and many other things, I believe).

Now, a year later after that medicine journey, I can see that both suffering and mercy are twin elements of the grand design. Though I do want more mercy to happen... and I still get pissed off about needless suffering.... as finite imperfect beings like myself do.

Note: It had also told me to be careful about how I teach these truths so as not to be callous to suffering. It showed me that all suffering is an illusion... but it doesn't feel like an illusion. So, if I share that mercy and suffering are God's theme park, it might paint a very different picture than the one that was shown in the eyes of those who are suffering. It's just two different vantage points of the same phenomenon.

Edited March 5 by Emerald

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

But yes, its not very close to solipsism - its Absolute Solipsism - meaning, you aren't part of God, you are the WHOLE of GOD.  You're the whole thing.

On 1/3/2024 at 3:28 PM, Water by the River said:

. 

Yes, and the others too. That is what infinity means. 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

@Emerald

A great account, thanks for sharing.

On 5.3.2024 at 11:20 AM, Emerald said:

It was like an amusement park of suffering and mercy

Chapeau. The perfect description of (human) existence.

On 5.3.2024 at 11:20 AM, Emerald said:

And after a while, I could not tell where suffering ended and mercy began as they were becoming one and the same.

Beautiful. That right there is the essence of liberation.

If you don't mind me geeking out for a second: This is why I am such a huge fan of Richard Wagner's music. He like no other composer in history had the gift of tapping into the divine interface between pain/suffering and love/mercy where both flow together into an orgiastic ocean of rapturous bliss. Absolutely incredible.

@Emerald

 

Edited March 6 by Bazooka Jesus

[Inliytened1]

@Emerald Thanks for sharing.  From my perspective, I believe the Infinite is just Pure Divine Bliss and Love, it cannot suffer.  Because it is Infinite.  And the infinite is nothing - it is selfless.  But when God incarnates into a finite a form - wich we call an ego here - it is the cause of its own suffering through its seflishness.  It is the selfishness of the ego that brings about suffering.  When the ego has suffered enough, massive amounts, mercy will be shown by God - which was there the whole time.    God must show mercy just as it must show suffering through selfishness.   Yes, there are other kinds of suffering through physical pain, but that isn't the suffering i'm talking about that brings God's Love and God's mercy.   It is deep suffering - which could be ruining a relationship of someone you loved so deeply, and now you have lost it, or it could be losing something else, a part of you, through selfish mistakes in judgement as the ego's mind is filtered through its own selfish desires.   Ultimately, the mercy is awakening to one's true nature, and feeling God's Love wash over you - immediately taking away all of the suffering.  But many times for this, you must have ego death, or a part of you must suffer so much that it dies or is pulled apart before you are shown the mercy of God (the Infinite).  

[Breakingthewall]

Human suffering seems terrible to us, but in reality it is the same as the impulse that makes a plant turn to one side in search of more light and drill deeper with its roots. For us it is super terrible and very important, the same as for the princess, the pea under the mattress was horrible, but for reality it is just a tool of movement. It all depends on the perspective from which you look at it. If you focus on the pea, it will be absolutely horrible, if you focus on everything that is not the pea, it will be irrelevant. Under the surface, the life is living and developing it's cycles

[BipolarGrowth]

Buddhism is all about getting out of suffering through awakening. Leo might critique this saying that getting out of suffering isn’t the highest goal. Well what is the peak of God-Realization or really any spiritual goal? You can desire to get out of sin to experience salvation. You can desire to get out of illusion to know truth. You can desire to get out of the hell of being a temporary self with temporary pleasures to instead see the heaven that there is no self who could lose anything. 
 

Suffering is the primary catalyst for awakening in my experience. You can say you want pure understanding and that is your goal. Why do you want pure understanding? Because you’ve found that you dislike a lack of understanding. You want to move away from what you dislike to what you enjoy, value, and experience as positive. And what is more enjoyable than a peak transcendental moment of awakening? 
 

As humans, we’re all caught in wanting to go from something deemed lower to another state deemed higher or better. The beauty of awakening is that you can see how nothing needs to be done in that moment. The goal is reached. No further engineering of existence to fit what you want is needed because you have seen that the highest possible thing you could ever want is already in the palm of your hand. 
 

The moment my spiritual journey really began was when the suffering and depression of self repression through crippling social anxiety led me to make the decision to be 100% authentic for just one day. This triggered my first manic episode, and from then on awakening became the way to transcend my mental illness and actually feel good for once. 
 

We just want to feel good. We can throw whatever justifications or intellectualization on top of that base truth that we want, but this basic truth remains regardless. People who suffer cause more suffering for themselves and others. People who feel content and at peace are able to help those lost in the miseries of life and offer their abundance of positive emotion generously. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Well what is the peak of God-Realization?

Has nothing to do with suffering.

Equating Consciousness with the avoidance of suffering is just a grotesque abomination unto God.

Edited March 9 by Leo Gura

[UnbornTao]

Seems to be mostly unnecessary and self-created.

But the reality of this eludes us.

[Water by the River]

Suffering & trying to ease suffering by anything else than realizing True Being:

 

There are way more hamster wheel-projects in the Universe than the few depicted on Maslows pyramid of hamster-wheels needs... Rumours have it that some of them are delivered not-from-this-earth...

Trying not to ease suffering (by realizing it is too a pretty large part a hamster-wheels-show,aka Maya): That is for the true aficionado, I must admit.

So, looking at the state of the world, it is pretty much happy hamster-wheel every day! 

So:

So, also this is part of Dzogchen, or [Gods] pristine Great Perfection. 

What remains to be done is then:

Selling refreshments to hamster-wheel-afficionados at the River

Edited March 10 by Water by the River

[Leo Gura]

True Being will not help you when a crocodile from the river snatches you by the skull.

Edited March 10 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

True Being will not help you when a crocodile from the river snatches you by the skull.

The crocodile will maybe view it differently