The importance of Suffering

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

With imagined Illusion I mean that the tree "out there" is no solid object existing independently existing from the human/consciousness perceiving it, like its normally perceived with the dualistic and materialistic view.

Then you are imagining the others, trees and humans,  and only you exist🤔🤔

Let's see, how I see it in open states (don't believe me, because who talks is the memory, the mind,) is that what I am is a bubble of limited perception. if this bubble is momentarily broken, gets open, and there are degrees of that dissolution, then I stop being limited, until encompass everything, but to certain extent because you are what you are and you can't dissapear until you die. In that moment I cannot see trees nor do I know my name, I am not a person. , I am total, absolute depth, where everything is. This state cannot be maintained, you cannot walk or do anything, you have no body, it is a momentary dissolution. this absolute depth is both empty and full. It is empty because its infinite amplitude makes anything zero when it expands in it, but it is full since everything emerges automatically and inevitably from its absence of limits. Infinite bubbles emerge and being infinite, and they are all perfectly synchronized. This is what you really are and it is total, absolute, unstoppable. This state is total fluidity, you burn, you cannot maintain it, you disintegrate, it is carcinogenic or something like that. then the bubble returns. All infinity is contained within the bubble, but also outside the bubble since being a bubble implies being blind to what you do not see. It's not that the things are real when you perceive, it's that everything is veiled except what you can perceive. everything exists now, all the trees, which are infinite, are real, but your perception is finite. If you saw them all at same time, you would see the total emptiness that is full of existence that everything is, the absolute life that arises from the absence of limits. All the others, infinite others, are inside your bubble now, but you cannot perceive them, and you are inside their bubble, the infinite is inside and outside at the same time, one and multiple, bubble and totality. If the doors of perception open a bit, there are no limits but you remain the bubble, the emergent of existence in permanent synchronized movement that you are, until you die and your bubble of perception disappears and you are the empty whole and all the bubbles at the same time, and only a new bubble too. Infinity is incomprehensible, but it is real, nothing can not be, everything is real energy configurations, regardless of whether you perceive them, they are perceived. 

So what is awakened state for me? Perceive the flow, the intelligence that this moment is, the alive depth. 

I am totally wrong in my cosmovisión? It's extremely very possible, but the reality is that I feel the power and the intelligence all time and fills me of joy and power, so who cares about what reality is? The only important thing is be open to life, to the intelligence . It's a bottomless well from the glory arises, so the more wise is to turn off the mind and open the heart and be filled by the power .

But in the background, sometimes more, sometimes less, I perceive the unlimited cosmos in its endless rotation. All this is subjective, it's stupid for me to be categorical, who knows anything? only one thing is certain, you are the flow of existence, open yourself to it and there are no more stories

Edited February 29 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then you are imagining the others, trees and humans,  and only you exist🤔🤔

Let's see, how I see it in open states (don't believe me, because who talks is the memory, the mind, and I'm acceding to this recently) is that what I am is a bubble of limited perception. if this bubble is momentarily broken, gets open, and there are degrees of that dissolution, then I stop being limited, until encompass everything, but to certain extent because you are what you are and you can't dissapear until you die. In that moment I cannot see trees nor do I know my name, I am not a person. , I am total, absolute depth, where everything is. This state cannot be maintained, you cannot walk or do anything, you have no body, it is a momentary dissolution. this absolute depth is both empty and full. It is empty because its infinite amplitude makes anything zero when it expands in it, but it is full since everything emerges automatically and inevitably from its absence of limits. Infinite bubbles emerge and being infinite, and they are all perfectly synchronized. This is what you really are and it is total, absolute, unstoppable. This state is total fluidity, you burn, you cannot maintain it, you disintegrate, it is carcinogenic or something like that. then the bubble returns. All infinity is contained within the bubble, but also outside the bubble since being a bubble implies being blind to what you do not see. It's not that the things are real when you perceive, it's that everything is veiled except what you can perceive. everything exists now, all the trees, which are infinite, are real, but your perception is finite. If you saw them all at same time, you would see the total emptiness that is full of existence that everything is, the absolute life that arises from the absence of limits. All the others, infinite others, are inside your bubble now, but you cannot perceive them, and you are inside their bubble, the infinite is inside and outside at the same time, one and multiple, bubble and totality. If the doors of perception open a bit, there are no limits but you remain the bubble, the emergent of existence in permanent synchronized movement that you are, until you die and your bubble of perception disappears and you are the empty whole and all the bubbles at the same time, and only a new bubble too. Infinity is incomprehensible, but it is real, nothing can not be, everything is real energy configurations, regardless of whether you perceive them, they are perceived. 

So what is awakened state for me? Perceive the flow, the intelligence that this moment is, the alive depth. 

I am totally wrong in my cosmovisión? It's extremely very possible, but the reality is that I feel the power and the intelligence all time and fills me of joy and power, so who cares about what reality is? The only important thing is be open to life, to the intelligence . It's a bottomless well from the glory arises, so the more wise is to turn off the mind and open the heart and be filled by the power .

But in the background, sometimes more, sometimes less, I perceive the unlimited cosmos in its endless rotation. All this is subjective, it's stupid for me to be categorical, who knows anything? only one thing is certain, you are the flow of existence, open yourself to it and there are no more stories

You should have been a poet. 

[Water by the River]

7 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Water by the River So the POV is just an appareance? True Infinite being goes beyond It? (Or "behind It", or "outside of It") ? 😂

 

Just add a few dimensions more (that "you" forget now in real time), and you have endless perspectives or POVs. Noneuclidian Vision like below, a one-dimensional chain of endless 3D-Pocket dimensions, or Indras Net in 3D. Infinite possibilities to pull that off, game of mathematics. That is called Indras Net.

Like one policemen watching the monitors of lots of security cameras: One Infinite consciousness (the policeman), endless cameras ("bodys or better 3D perspectives, with endless monitors), endless monitors. And now just remove policemen, camera and monitors, and stack all of these perspectives together into a dimensional model of your choice. And forget all other cameras in real time.

Of course just a metaphor to make it clear: ONE (without a second) Infinite Awareness/Consciousness/Being, splicing itself up into infinite perspectives and forgetting these in real time. And totally empty and impersonal so that it can be and feel like "everything/everyone".

The same way you can forget in time what you did exactly 1 year ago, you can forget all other perspectives "in space".

People had visions of Indras Net, or of something like that, since the beginning of time, often while tripping on the local psychedelic of the season:

Nice book btw.

Indras Net. Each perspective reflecting each other perspectives. The outside of another human/being/holon is the reflection of that "node/being" in your "node/being", see this picture. And mathematics can already do that right now in endless unimaginable n-dimensional spaces, the math exists also in our world... One just can't imagine it, but calculate with it one can...

 

or

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Indras Net&author=Water by the River

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River 

Everything I have said are ideas that really, I don't know if they make sense. What is absolutely real is what I just experienced now with 1 hit of weed and meditation: I have looked into the face of the abyss, and in a moment, I was the abyss. the total living infinity. It is and that's it, what does it matter what arises? absolutely nothing, it is completely irrelevant, what matters is that I am the living infinite existence. That's it, there's nothing more to know, nothing else has any importance

[Water by the River]

35 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

if this bubble is momentarily broken, gets open, and there are degrees of that dissolution, then "I" stop being limited, until encompass everything, but to certain extent because you are what you are and you can't dissapear until you die

The "I" that you really are doesn't stop being limited, and then becomes limited again. What you are is always infinite, the whole reality. 

The I that you write about is the illusion arising in True You. It seems your identiy shifts from being a person to being something else (Infinite, Abyss, whatever). Find out how this identifying (identity) works (investigating these Identity-arisings on a micro-level, and cutting them off).

Find that which doesn't change. And get rid of this fluctuating "I", of each and any "I", because they are all fake/illusion. Neti Neti. And then see what remains.

True You, what you really are constant and doesn't change. Your Being doesn't change. That is what you are and never can not be.

YOU are not "the" Infinite and then "the" abyss and then breakingthewall and then something else and back again and over the over. You are always You. Capital Y.

You don't change. Your essence doesn't change. The show that arises within in you does. But that is not the nature of you, not your Awareness, not your Being.

Find that which doesn't change and can't change. On how to do that see my past posts for my 50ct on that. 

[Breakingthewall]

Btw, thanks friends 

40 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Just add a few dimensions more (that "you" forget now in real time), and you have endless perspectives or POVs. Noneuclidian Vision like below, a one-dimensional chain of endless 3D-Pocket dimensions, or Indras Net in 3D. Infinite possibilities to pull that off, game of mathematics. That is called Indras Net.

Like one policemen watching the monitors of lots of security cameras: One Infinite consciousness (the policeman), endless cameras ("bodys or better 3D perspectives, with endless monitors), endless monitors. And now just remove policemen, camera and monitors, and stack all of these perspectives together into a dimensional model of your choice. And forget all other cameras in real time.

Of course just a metaphor to make it clear: ONE (without a second) Infinite Awareness/Consciousness/Being, splicing itself up into infinite perspectives and forgetting these in real time. And totally empty and impersonal so that it can be and feel like "everything/everyone".

The same way you can forget in time what you did exactly 1 year ago, you can forget all other perspectives "in space".

People had visions of Indras Net, or of something like that, since the beginning of time, often while tripping on the local psychedelic of the season:

Nice book btw.

Indras Net. Each perspective reflecting each other perspectives. The outside of another human/being/holon is the reflection of that "node/being" in your "node/being", see this picture. And mathematics can already do that right now in endless unimaginable n-dimensional spaces, the math exists also in our world... One just can't imagine it, but calculate with it one can...

 

or

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Indras Net&author=Water by the River

 

 

What you say is exactly the same as saying that everything is real and exists now, and that there are infinite bubbles that really exist, since they are all the living infinite, it is absolutely real, so whatever form it takes, that is, all of them, They are absolutely real and alive. Division don't make the infinity less alive or less real. Everything is infinite and exist, contain the whole infinity in itself 

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

YOU are not "the" Infinite and then "the" abyss and then breakingthewall and then something else and back again and over the over. You are always You. Capital Y.

You don't change. Your essence doesn't change. The show that arises within in you does. But that is not the nature of you, not your Awareness, not your Being.

Find that which doesn't change and can't change. On how to do that see my past posts for my 50ct on that. 

 

50 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

 

I find it often in a absolute way, and it's transparent all time. That's enlightenment? Well, then I'm enlightened, but I assure you that there are degrees, I can't be totally open to my true nature all time, some veil is necessary. It's doesn't mean that I'm breakingthewall then the infinity, it means that I ve a limitator in the mind that closes , the thing is to equalize your person, your life , to can be the most open possible, but I'm always the same. What I don't know is why there is that energetic pattern that my structure is now , and how it happens, but I think it's possible to see deep . What you suggested is to know what you are. Know means nothing, it's a matter of opening or closes

Edited February 29 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Btw, thanks friends 

What you say is exactly the same as saying that everything is real and exists now, and that there are infinite bubbles that really exist, since they are all the living infinite, it is absolutely real, so whatever form it takes, that is, all of them, They are absolutely real and alive. Division don't make the infinity less alive or less real. Everything is infinite and exist, contain the whole infinity in itself 

No, it is just illusion arising within you. Like empty appearance, a hologram, dream-stuff, a dream at night.

They are all temporary, and anything temporary is not real. They arise in True You. Nothing of that would exist without You.

Dreamer & dream.

Ex-ist-ing = standing out from reality, existing by itself. Existing for itself, by itself. Apart from True You.

You can exist without all these arisinsg/appearances. But not the other way round. These appearances can not exist without you, they can only appear in True You.

They don't ex-ist or stand out from reality, because True You is existence/Reality itself.

You exist. The appearances not. They appear in You.

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, then I'm enlightened, but I assure you that there are degrees, I can't be totally open to my true nature all time, some veil is necessary

No, then it is an illusion you identify with. Sorry to say, that will become clear with Enlightenment.

You ARE your True Nature, by definition. That which can't be totally open to "my true nature"  is the illusion.

But anyway, that leads nowhere. Practice neti neti and cut it all off. Then you will get the awakened states to realize that.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

No, it is just illusion arising within you. Like empty appearance, a hologram, dream-stuff, a dream at night.

They are all temporary, and anything temporary is not real. They arise in True You. Nothing of that would exist without You.

Dreamer & dream.

Ex-ist-ing = standing out from reality, existing by itself. Existing for itself, by itself. Apart from True You.

You can exist without all these arisinsg/appearances. But not the other way round. These appearances can not exist without you, they can only appear in True You.

They don't ex-ist or stand out from reality, because True You is existence/Reality itself.

You exist. The appearances not. They appear in You.

No! Temporary means nothing! It's infinity 😅🤣. You didn't perceive the most important thing. Everything is alive, infinity is life , being open means being open to the power of the infinity. If you are totally open ,you die. Reality is not a movie, it's pure life, you don't see this essential aspect of reality. Being open to the amplitude, to the abyss is one thing, but the important thing is being open to it's substance. Everything is alive, intelligence is flowing infinitely now, its what you are, not just an screen

[Breakingthewall]

57 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Dreamer & dream

If the dreamer is infinite, the dream is infinite. If the dreamer is real, the dream is real. If the dreamer is alive, the dream is alive. Because it's infinite. You just have to see it. It's the absolute joy. 

Edited February 29 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

No! Temporary means nothing! It's infinity 😅🤣. You didn't perceive the most important thing. Everything is alive, infinity is life , being open means being open to the power of the infinity. If you are totally open ,you die. Reality is not a movie, it's pure life, you don't see this essential aspect of reality. Being open to the amplitude, to the abyss is one thing, but the important thing is being open to it's substance. Everything is alive, intelligence is flowing infinitely now, its what you are, not just an screen

Nondual. Of course you are also the appearances, and contain them at the same time.

But that is not your ESSENCE. The appearances are the dream (the appearances). You are the dreamer. Containing the dream. And the appearances. And that Reality NEVER changes.

And identifying with anything changing in the dream = suffering. Why? Neither constant nor free of suffering/resistance, which is the hallmark of any separate-self identifying with anything CHANGING in the dream.

 

[Water by the River]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If the dreamer in infinite, the dream is infinite. If the dreamer is real, the dream is real. If the dreamer is alive, the dream is alive. Because it's infinite. You just have to see it. It's the absolute joy. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

"Reality is the sum or aggregate of all that is real or existent within the universe, as opposed to that which is only imaginary, nonexistent or nonactual"

If you want to go against the realization and testimony of countless realized beings over  millenia because you found something that they didn't see...

The Reality of the dream is the dreamer. That is not just semantics. But go and find out for yourself...

 

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Practice neti neti and cut it all off.

Neti neti is just a game for the mind, my mind is totally empty of any identification, if I do neti neti, there is nothing to say, I'm talking about the fact of open yourself to the alive unlimited. The real thing. An act of opening. 

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

my mind is totally empty of any identification

Then its happy ever after & no clouding over ever again. 

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Reality is the sum or aggregate of all that is real or existent within the universe, as opposed to that which is only imaginary, nonexistent or nonactual"

If you want to go against the realization and testimony of countless realized beings over  millenia because you found something that they didn't see...

Seems like that yes. Without any doubt. Infinity is infinity, and anyone who think that there is something "no true" in it didn't understand at all, he's closed to the real thing. 

Edited February 29 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Then its happy ever after & no clouding over ever again. 

You don't understand! The clouds are not about what I am. I don't think about what I am even for a second, I try to open myself to the substance, and there are degrees. Same to being open to the fact of being unlimited. If you are doing something, you close yourself in that thing and you perceive yourself as limited. Maybe you know that you are unlimited, but you perceive a work that you are doing and that's it. You need to do some meditation, and you perceive the unlimited completely, and then you can be more or less open to it's flow. But one thing is sure in that moment: you are the total existence alive and you feel it's power, nothing more is needed, no false and true, the infinity eats every difference, nothing can't be finite, since it's a part of the infinity alive, it's the infinity alive. 

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

You are the dreamer. Containing the dream. And the appearances. And that Reality NEVER changes.

No, dream is a definition, dreamer too, you can't being a definition. You are infinite and that's it. Then you open yourself to what infinity means. It's pure life. Change or no change means nothing. It's another frequency, another dimension 

Edited February 29 by Breakingthewall

[Arthogaan]

 

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River you know that you are infinite, but you don't know what infinity is, you didn't open to it. My advice would be....well I'm sure you can imagine. It starts with 5. Not always works but in you case, I would say that surely yes (not one trial, maybe 30 or more). You ve nothing to loose.