The importance of Suffering

[Breakingthewall]

55 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let's open it up - 

@Water by the River I would like to hear your thoughts .

It depends, I bet that our revered 😅waterriver didn't suffer a lot. He would have to be sent to row galleys for a couple of years. Well, I guess he already did it in past lives, like everyone else.

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

Hmmm. Now that I think of it maybe suffering is not enough. Maybe it's something like being fed up with one's current way of being.

Maybe

Being fed up/will to change = amount of suffering * insight/inteligence

Because for some people change is so scary that it actually in a way is more comfortable to stay in current way of being.

Massaro says that if you don't change some behaviour it's because deep inside you still believe there is a benefit to that behaviour. Like for example some can subconsciously believe thst staying asleep and in suffering maybe is terrible but it ensures things like security, being understood and so on.

So until the benefits of change outweight the scary parts like not being understood, going crazy - the person won't change.

And for some it may be that not being understood, being alone, changing is scarier even than death.

Also commiting suicide is just ego screaming for help. Sending a signal "look how much I suffered because od you world, so much that I'm going to kill myself".

 

Yeah, It comes down to the suffering becoming so strong that you are faced with death.  You can die, and just give up basically.  Or you can realize you are God and escape it.  And come back to fight another day.  That's what I think God realization is about.  

Edited February 29 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well..life sucks and then you die .simple as that .

If you have not yet realized this you are not fully awake 

Haha.. Awakening isn't mandatory.   I guess a lot go through life and never know the difference.  But why does God want to realize himself in only some forms?  Does he have a bias to certain form?.  It's interesting.  It's paradoxical because you have deduce that either its random, or God just wants to awaken itself in certain forms.

But again, because of Solipsism, this question is null and void, but its fun to just imagine.

Edited February 29 by Inliytened1

[Yimpa]

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Excactly.  But still - i still wonder why some who suffer so deep don't awaken.  

Our job isn’t to awaken them, but to see simply see them as Consciousness itself.

I also notice that this is the limitation with many non-duality teachings…  they emphasize rejecting the ego and mind. Now.., I see why they hammer that point to new students, because the identification with those is extremely intimate. So creating some distance from them is critical. 

Keep in mind, since all of THIS is Consciousness, everything I just said is Truth, despite using your Mind and Ego to interpret what I just said / read / written 

Again - Thank YOU!

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Our job isn’t to awaken them, but to see simply see them as Consciousness itself.

I also notice that this is the limitation with many non-duality teachings…  they emphasize rejecting the ego and mind. Now.., I see why they hammer that point to new students, because the identification with those is extremely intimate. So creating some distance from them is critical. 

Keep in mind, since all of THIS is Consciousness, everything I just said is Truth, despite using your Mind and Ego to interpret what I just said / read / written 

Again - Thank YOU!

So basically, the question is null and void in your opinion because there is nothing wrong with suicide.  Actually suicide is Enlightnement, because reality is consciousness, so there is no death, really.  That's a very interesting take and actually it's quite correct.  I just think it would be cooler if God could realize itself without just ending the life of the form and never knowing it was God.  But what I think happens here is Consciousness.  Rats don't wake up - they go through their whole life, and never awaken.  So why would some humans awaken, if there level of consciousness wasn't high enough.  

And now again - solipsism wipes this all clean.  

Edited February 29 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

Humans suffer, A Guatemalan 17 years old prostitute addicted to crack suffers and is not awake. Humanity is a broth of suffering, a purgatory that is close to hell, but from the outside it seems very beautiful and orderly.

[Yimpa]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

And now again - soplipsism wipes this all clean.  

More accurately, Consciousness does 

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Humans suffer, A Guatemalan 17 years old prostitute addicted to crack suffers and is not awake. Humanity is a broth of suffering, a purgatory that is close to hell, but from the outside it seems very beautiful and orderly.

So if suffering isn't the only answer, whats the secret ingredients?  

[Someone here]

@Inliytened1 I'm glad I made you laugh brother . I hope you overcome whatever suffering you are going through and come out the other side with even more strength 💪.  

Remember..nothing lasts forever.  Suffering is inevitable part  of life .even animals go through it and humans and since I'm a believer in panpsychism ..even rocks and trees suffer.  Buddha said life is suffering.  

The only way to overcome suffering is counterintuitively to surrender to it and let your ego burn in the spiritual fires .

[Yimpa]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

Humanity is a broth of suffering, a purgatory that is close to hell, but from the outside it seems very beautiful and orderly.

Seems is nicely put here. Yes, the outside appears to be a certain way, but that’s relative to what’s going on inside, since the inside and outside are One.

Imagine if all you knew was 240p video being very beautiful, yet there is clearly 4K HD and beyond. You’re simply not aware of it right now.

[puporing]

16 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I disagree with leo on certain aspects of enlightenment so I am not okay with everything he says.   but he is right about a TON.  a ton.  But there are a few things he is wrong about, and that's OK.  It is just where he is at on the path.  And that's just my perspective.  For all i know, in his reality, he has everything right.  And so could you - So 'm not discounting your enlightnement by any means.   But ahead of "us" I just don't understand what that means, Please explain.

Well.. that's the thing, I have more disagreements than you do, so it's not really safe for me as it would be for you.. relatively speaking. 

So if I fundamentally disagree on some things, almost all of "Leo's disciples" will outright reject/attack me/what I'm saying. This is the difficulty I'm in with sharing this. 

Consider that I followed a very narrow path/teachings that only someone with very little to no ego would even be open to, and only someone who has little to no investment in this world would consider it. And from that path I reached a state of "Kingdom of Heaven", this is your original Self. And as well many revelations that went with this. In more literal terms it's more light, more love, more oneness, more beauty, more consciousness. All sober. 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Inliytened1 I'm glad I made you laugh brother . I hope you overcome whatever suffering you are going through and come out the other side with even more strength 💪.  

Remember..nothing lasts forever.  Suffering is inevitable part  of life .even animals go through it and humans and since I'm a believer in panpsychism ..even rocks and trees suffer.  Buddha said life is suffering.  

The only way to overcome suffering is counterintuitively to surrender to it and let your ego burn in the spiritual fires .

Thank you friend.  You know you are dear to me.  I am saying something deeper in the post though - I'm saying it is a an absolute requirement for awakening to yourself as God.  Without it, you cannot awaken.  That is what I am saying.  I am not saying it is the only component, but I am stating that it is the catalyst.  Meditation is not the catalyst.  Nor are psychedelics.    That's a bold claim I'm making, but it is from direct experience.

[Yimpa]

@Inliytened1 The catalyst is deep longing for understanding what Truth is, no matter the cost. Just like they say, love is priceless 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, puporing said:

Well.. that's the thing, I have more disagreements than you do, so it's not really safe for me as it would be for you.. relatively speaking. 

So if I fundamentally disagree on some things, almost all of "Leo's disciples" will outright reject/attack me/what I'm saying. This is the difficulty I'm in with sharing this. 

Consider that I followed a very narrow path/teachings that only someone with very little to no ego would even be open to, and only someone who has little to no investment in this world would consider it. And from that path I reached a state of "Kingdom of Heaven", this is your original Self. And as well many revelations that went with this. In more literal terms it's more light, more love, more oneness, more beauty, more consciousness. All sober. 

Yes I know it was sober, impressive.  Because I know you took psychedelics as well.  But have you realized Solipsism?  I mean utlimately this must be the ultimate conclusion.  You must know that if you are ahead of us.  Do you not believe that you are all of God?  After all, if you do realize that you are all of God, that you are Pure Consciousness and Oneness - then you must also know that there cannot be "other" , other than in your imagination.   That is the ultimate realization and the one thing holding one back from God realization.  

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Inliytened1 The catalyst is deep longing for understanding what Truth is, no matter the cost. Just like they say, love is priceless 

It's not.  It's just pure suffering in finite form.   But if the deep longing causes you suffering, it will have the same affect.  

 

Edited February 29 by Inliytened1

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Thank you friend.  You know you are dear to me.  I am saying something deeper in the post though - I'm saying it is a an absolute requirement for awakening to yourself as God.  Without it, you cannot awaken.  That is what I am saying.  I am not saying it is the only component, but I am stating that it is the catalyst.  Meditation is not the catalyst.  Nor are psychedelics.    That's a bold claim I'm making, but it is from direct experience.

I hear you . Well..Eckhart Tolle was literally suicidally depressed before his awakening.  He said "I could not live with myself anymore ". And then he realised the distinction between the false self (ego or myself) and the indifferent awareness which observes everything without judgement.  So yes I agree with you that suffering plays a role . In Buddhism they talk about to die before you die .Jesus as well said you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you are born twice .

[puporing]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes I know it was sober, impressive.  Because I know you took psychedelics as well.  But have you realized Solipsism?  I mean utlimately this must be the ultimate conclusion.  You must know that if you are ahead of us.  Do you not believe that you are all of God?  After all, if you do realize that you are all of God, that you are Pure Consciousness and Oneness - then you must also know that there cannot be "other" , other than in your imagination.   That is the ultimate realization and the one thing holding one back from God realization.  

Well there's more detail in there once you reach the kingdom. Your mind is both distinguishable and one with "other minds". But I could only truly be one with the fully enlightened beings that are in heaven. Everyone else I cannot currently connect with due to the separation of the ego mind that most people are still in in this world. So right now everyone here I experience as separated parts of the 1 mind, some closer than others. But if you reach the kingdom, yeah we'll literally feel like we can read each other's mind. 

Edited February 29 by puporing

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do you not believe that you are all of God?  After all, if you do realize that you are all of God, that you are Pure Consciousness and Oneness - then you must also know that there cannot be "other" , other than in your imagination.   That is the ultimate realization and the one thing holding one back from God realization.  

Actually, other is identical to God, as trippy as that sounds.

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's not.  It's just pure suffering in finite form.   But if the deep longing causes you suffering, it will have the same affect.  

Indeed. Suffering is Love, and I long for negative feelings and emotions to be integrated with the positive. Suffering doesn’t have to be all doom and gloom.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I hear you . Well..Eckhart Tolle was literally suicidally depressed before his awakening.  He said "I could not live with myself anymore ". And then he realised the distinction between the false self (ego or myself) and the indifferent awareness which observes everything without judgement.  So yes I agree with you that suffering plays a role . In Buddhism they talk about to die before you die .Jesus as well said you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you are born twice .

Exactly!   Those are perfect examples!  so there you go... 

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Actually, other is identical to God, as trippy as that sounds.

Indeed. Suffering is Love, and I long for negative feelings and emotions to be integrated with the positive. Suffering doesn’t have to be all doom and gloom.

Other is identical to God, but if you are God, that makes them you.  They ARE you, they don't have independent consciousnesses.  I don't want to turn this into a solipsism thread, but it is as fundamental as suffering, so we have to acknowledge it.   And it also addresses all the weird questions if ypu think about it.  You dont have to have the direct realization of it to know that it solves almost every question of the ego mind.

Edited February 29 by Inliytened1