Advice regarding my recent approach

[Princess Arabia]

41 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Alright. Now, who makes the rules of what's 'socially appropriate' vs 'socially inappropriate'? 

Are these rule-makers loving individuals, who wish the best for us, who want us to have good relationships?! Nope. These people are fearful individuals, who operate from a space of fear in relationships, who want to hold us back. 

Always notice that there is no textbook definition of 'social appropriateness' but there is always a contextual definition of 'social inappropriateness'. It's always 'don't do this, it'll make her feel X' or 'don't do that, it'll make her feel Y'. First of all, how do you know that? Are you able to read minds? Just because this is how it worked with one person, does it have to work the same with someone else?

Secondly, these dumb standards of 'social appropriateness' vary from culture to culture. In some cultures, female sexuality is shamed to the degree that you can't ask women whether they want to have sex to their face. Whereas, in some other cultures, women are a lot more open with their sexuality. Ultimately, these bullshit standards go back to what the dominant religion of your culture believes. And, if you take on a more spiritual approach, a lot of it can be bypassed. 

Plus your point here is invalid because you would never just go up to a stranger on the street and just say would you like to have sex with me right now. Would you. Your first conversation is just that. Would you like to have sex with me right now. No. Maybe approach her first, get to talking a bit, feel her out and if she's flirting with you real hard, maybe touching your dick or something like that, then you would find it more appropriate to ask her then. But why not ask her to begin with. Because of inappropriateness. Not just because of society or a rule book but because of your inner judgement. The way you were raised, common sense or just using your inner innate judgement and survival mechanisms because of the repercussions that may follow.

So it's not about rule books or societal norms at all times but using inner judgement and your innate capabilities to use discernment as to what's Universally appropriate for living in a society where we are expected to adhere to people's right to their privacy.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

This is me, 

 

This is my family, 

 

And this is my bedroom. 

Lol

[Princess Arabia]

@mr_engineerI just did a web search for those pictures and I found them and their connected websites. So you see, all that talk and I couldn't get the same thing from you that the girl refused to give him and you called it fear of whatever you said. You have to be able to back up what you're saying and not just talk and rebut all the time.

Edited March 1, 2024 by Princess Arabia

[mr_engineer]

9 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

@mr_engineerI just did a web search for those pictures and I found them and their connected websites. So you see, all that talk and I couldn't get the same thing from you that the girl refused to give him and you called it fear of whatever you said. You have to be able to back up what you're saying and not just talk and rebut all the time.

My point is, you don't have to get scared when someone doesn't perfectly fit your standards of 'social appropriateness'. Whether you want to share the pictures or not is still upto you, but understand the actual intent at play. Don't project an 'uncommunicated intent' that wasn't communicated. I think it was not a valid reason to cut contact with the OP. 

The cutting of contact didn't happen because she was asked to do something she didn't want to do. It happened because she wasn't comfortable with getting approached in general, because she was avoidant. 

Edited March 1, 2024 by mr_engineer

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

The cutting of contact didn't happen because she was asked to do something she didn't want to do. It happened because she wasn't comfortable with getting approached in general, because she was avoidant.

This is speculation and doesn't have a ground to stand on much less expand upon. 

[mr_engineer]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is speculation and doesn't have a ground to stand on much less expand upon. 

Here's the ground - you asked me to do the same thing, I didn't want to do it. But, instead of calling you 'creepy' and reporting you, I made a joke of it. Why didn't she do the same? What was stopping her? Her own fear. 

All of us really need to not have sticks up our asses. Everyone is not going to meet our standards of 'social appropriateness'. 

Edited March 1, 2024 by mr_engineer

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Here's the ground - you asked me to do the same thing, I didn't want to do it. But, instead of calling you 'creepy' and reporting you, I made a joke of it. Why didn't she do the same? What was stopping her? Her own fear. 

No one doubt it wasn't fear. Why demonize fear. It needs to be brought to the light and shown some love and it will transform itself. But that isn't the point. Yes, it was fear, so what. It is a survival mechanism. You're acting out of fear too because of your criticisms and judgements of her. You yourself said if it's not love it's fear. Nothing wrong with her being fearful. We have our own reasons why we fear things. Who are you to determine what one should be fearful of. 

Edited March 1, 2024 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Here's the ground - you asked me to do the same thing, I didn't want to do it. But, instead of calling you 'creepy' and reporting you, I made a joke of it. Why didn't she do the same? What was stopping her? Her own fear. 

All of us really need to not have sticks up our asses. Everyone is not going to meet our standards of 'social appropriateness'. 

Yes you are right; and she also doesn't have to meet his. You are one-sided. Just as you're saying she can cancel him at anytime because she doesn't have to meet your seal of approval for what social appropriateness is as in telling him to fuck-off if she chooses. She's adhered to your own rule, but you can't see that because you are blinded by your own fear and biases and beliefs and what happened to you in the past. Goodnight now, I'm going to bed.

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

No one doubt it wasn't fear. Why demonize fear. It needs to be brought to the light and shown some love and it will transform itself. But that isn't the point. Yes, it was fear, so what. It is a survival mechanism. You're acting out of fear too because of your criticisms and judgements of her. You yourself said if it's not love it's fear. Nothing wrong with ger being fearful. We gave our own reasons why we fear things. Who are you to determine what one should be fearful of. 

Indeed, there is nothing wrong with being fearful. The problem starts when this fear distorts your worldview, it makes you suspicious of everyone who behaves a certain way. The problem with fear, is that it makes you come up with the wrong 'uncommunicated intent', which is why you then label other people as 'creepy', you blame them for your fear. That's demonization of a person right there. That is disrespectful and unacceptable. Men should not be putting up with this in their dating-lives. And men should be vetting women for this kind of avoidance before asking them out. 

Other people are not to blame for your fear. You're feeling fear because of your own trauma and conditioning. Why should a man put up with someone who makes him responsible for her feelings? In which 'he can make her feel fear, he can make her feel happy'? Why should a man put up with someone who doesn't take responsibility for her happiness in life?! Who blames external circumstances for how she feels?! This is why my advice to OP was to vet for attachment-style. 

[mr_engineer]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes you are right; and she also doesn't have to meet his. You are one-sided. Just as you're saying she can cancel him at anytime because she doesn't have to meet your seal of approval for what social appropriateness is as in telling him to fuck-off if she chooses. She's adhered to your own rule, but you can't see that because you are blinded by your own fear and biases and beliefs and what happened to you in the past. Goodnight now, I'm going to bed.

As I've said previously, if her goal is to end up alone and tell everyone who approaches her to 'fuck off', I have no issue with that. But, if we're assuming that she also wants to end up with someone, which we are, when we're dating, that's what our standards of behavior are going to be based on! 

I'm not saying that my standards should be superior to anyone else's. I'm saying that the standards of behavior that bring people together should be superior to the standards of behavior that separate people. That's all. 

I'm saying this again - note that her response had nothing to do with what he actually did and everything to do with the 'uncommunicated intent' she projected onto it. Meaning, she would've responded like that at some point, no matter who he was or what he did. So, the real solution, is to figure out whether she's going to do that or not to begin with by testing for her attachment-style. 

Edited March 1, 2024 by mr_engineer

[Princess Arabia]

6 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

The problem starts when this fear distorts your worldview, it makes you suspicious of everyone who behaves a certain way.

This is exactly you and what it has done to you.

 

6 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

which is why you then label other people as 'creepy'

Nothing in OP's post mentioned the word creep or creepy. Your past post that you started once does tho. The one where it went on and on and on. The one you shared here. So all you're doing is projecting your fears unto this thread and discussing stuff that wasn't said and you still haven't gotten over your "creepy" post. I wonder how many times will you use that for reference every time someone asks for dating advice unrelated to being called a creep, but only what you assume he's being called in your mind.

 

6 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Men should not be putting up with this in their dating-lives. And men should be vetting women for this kind of avoidance before asking them out. 

He never said he asked her out. In fact, he said he wasn't even on a date, it was his first time talking with her. Again discussing stuff that wasn't said. 

 

6 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Why should a man put up with someone who makes him responsible for her feelings? In which 'he can make her feel fear, he can make her feel happy'

You are also feeling some type of way and are also blaming women for it. So why should women put up with you.

 

6 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Why should a man put up with someone who doesn't take responsibility for her happiness in life?! Who blames external circumstances for how she feels?!

Complaining and saying all you're saying doesn't sound like its coming from a happy place. I wonder whose responsible for that.

Your whole comments sound personal and did not stick to the point of the post. You kept going on and on about situations that never occurred with the OP and every single one was a projection of your own fears stemming from your own experiences. 

[mr_engineer]

45 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is exactly you and what it has done to you.

Come on, you were defending fearful actions. Don't deflect. 

46 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Nothing in OP's post mentioned the word creep or creepy. Your past post that you started once does tho. The one where it went on and on and on. The one you shared here. So all you're doing is projecting your fears unto this thread and discussing stuff that wasn't said and you still haven't gotten over your "creepy" post. I wonder how many times will you use that for reference every time someone asks for dating advice unrelated to being called a creep, but only what you assume he's being called in your mind.

Everyone else on this thread has been calling his behavior 'creepy'. 

47 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You are also feeling some type of way and are also blaming women for it. So why should women put up with you.

Okay, Ms. Mind-reader. How am I feeling?! And what am I blaming women for?! 

47 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Complaining and saying all you're saying doesn't sound like its coming from a happy place. I wonder whose responsible for that.

Complaining about what?! I'm giving OP dating-advice! 

49 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Your whole comments sound personal and did not stick to the point of the post. You kept going on and on about situations that never occurred with the OP and every single one was a projection of your own fears stemming from your own experiences. 

Everyone else here has been name-calling OP, calling him 'creepy'. And I'm telling all of you that this is wrong and explaining to you why it's wrong. 

[Consept]

10 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Everyone else here has been name-calling OP, calling him 'creepy'. And I'm telling all of you that this is wrong and explaining to you why it's wrong. 

No one called him creepy, they said what he did can come across creepy which he took as was intended. You're adding your own issues onto this 

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Consept said:

No one called him creepy, they said what he did can come across creepy which he took as was intended. You're adding your own issues onto this 

Exactly, the closest someone did was to post a video named creep. But still he didn't come off as a creep and was just asking how better to do next time in response to us showing him what he might have done wrong or in appropriately.

Edited March 1, 2024 by Princess Arabia

[mr_engineer]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

No one called him creepy, they said what he did can come across creepy which he took as was intended. You're adding your own issues onto this 

Whether it comes across as 'creepy' or not, depends on the other person. Now, here's the real question - in which cases will it come across as 'creepy' and in which cases will it come across as an expression of intimacy? That's what I was answering. 

[Consept]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

Whether it comes across as 'creepy' or not, depends on the other person. Now, here's the real question - in which cases will it come across as 'creepy' and in which cases will it come across as an expression of intimacy? That's what I was answering. 

Well thats what op is trying to learn and has gotten the advice he asked for 

[mr_engineer]

2 minutes ago, Consept said:

Well thats what op is trying to learn and has gotten the advice he asked for 

By 'cases', I mean, with which women. The same behavior will come across as 'creepy' to some women and an escalation of intimacy to some other women. 

I think you didn't read the first sentence, where I said 'whether the behavior comes across as 'creepy' depends on the other person'. Let me repeat that - 'creepy' is a name that other people call you, it's not something you choose to be. 

Edited March 1, 2024 by mr_engineer

[mr_engineer]

All of you need to let men be men and not regulate men's social behavior so much. The 'toxic masculinity' rhetoric has gotten way out of hand and we need to bring back some appreciation for masculinity. We need to appreciate the fact that he approached her at all. Being a man is just incredibly thankless these days and we can do better for men. So, please take your bullshit social rules and shove them up your asses. 

Edited March 1, 2024 by mr_engineer

[Consept]

6 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

By 'cases', I mean, with which women. The same behavior will come across as 'creepy' to some women and an escalation of intimacy to some other women. 

I think you didn't read the first sentence, where I said 'whether the behavior comes across as 'creepy' depends on the other person'. Let me repeat that - 'creepy' is a name that other people call you, it's not something you choose to be. 

I read it, the problem is solved op isn't gonna ask for photos of family and inside of house of someone he only just met for 5 mins going forward 

[mr_engineer]

2 minutes ago, Consept said:

I read it, the problem is solved op isn't gonna ask for photos of family and inside of house of someone he only just met for 5 mins going forward 

No, the problem is not 'solved', this is the start of a new problem. Which is this - because of this, he is less likely to meet a woman who will accept him for who he is. 

When he asked to see her family, that was authentic! Now, we're teaching him to be inauthentic by creep-shaming him.