What is woke?

[Consept]

What you guys should contemplate is what are the positives of 'wokism'? In most cases the term used to demonise the progressive left, its kind of like dismissing all conservatives as maga, qanon, Trumpists. That is the real test of critical thinking when you can steelman a position you dont agree with, rather than strawman it. 

 

[Princess Arabia]

9 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Not so fast. Conservatives do have legitimacy in striking a balance in society. If we had LSD for All, I don’t think you’d be in favor of that, as beautiful as it sounds on paper.

Great point.

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Consept said:

That is the real test of critical thinking when you can steelman a position you dont agree with, rather than strawman it. 

Very cool, this is the first time I’ve heard the term steelmanning before! Nice to see things from multiple angles

[Princess Arabia]

16 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

What we need is the hippie movement. What we need is conservative ways to die. They’ve held society back too long with their grasping and fear and insane attachment to the old ways of doing things. Leaving little space for evolution, new ideas, change, love and freedom 

Maybe that's what's needed for new ideas, change, love and freedom. It's called Polarity. Can't know stupidity if wisdom doesn't exist and vice versa. Nothing is really being held back, there's no rush in what is at play here in the Universe. Acknowledge both as valid.

Edited February 29 by Princess Arabia

[Consept]

17 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Very cool, this is the first time I’ve heard the term steelmanning before! Nice to see things from multiple angles

Yeah its a great way to debate in good faith, if you notice most debates online including here on the forum, will take the oppositions point and make it the most extreme version of it and then argue against that exaggerated point. So it'll be something like 'Wokism wants to inject kids with hormones' the reality is most people on the progressive left probably dont agree with that but they do want equal rights for trans people, but if you dont believe in equal rights for trans people its hard to argue that they shouldnt have rights, its easier to say the whole movement is crazy because of this extreme view. To be clear this does happen on both sides but i think its really good practice to try and argue the best points from the other side, even if you still dont agree you would have more emapthy and understanding for their position. 

[Yimpa]

@Consept I wonder what my life would’ve looked like if I had been able to access hormones as a kid vs. psychiatric pills. I only came out as trans recently, at the age of 27.

I do look back at my life with grief, but it could not have been any other way based on the culture and time I wound up in.

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Consept I wonder what my life would’ve looked like if I had been able to access hormones as a kid vs. psychiatric pills. I only came out as trans recently, at the age of 27.

I do look back at my life with grief, but it could not have been any other way based on the culture and time I wound up in.

Do you mean if you could take hormones instead of psychiatric pills that you took because your family interpreted your desire as a problem?

Did you know from early age that you want to change your gender?

[Yimpa]

22 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Do you mean if you could take hormones instead of psychiatric pills that you took because your family interpreted your desire as a problem?

Not just family, but also the religious and cultural system I was born into (that being Roman Catholic and filipino). To be fair, I also had other underlying concerns that were unrelated to that which were not being properly being addressed, such as autism. I actually didn’t get diagnosed with autism until age 16. My mom, at that time, was the one who had to fight for me to get answers to what I’ve been struggling with, while everyone else (i.e. other family members, school system, psychologists, and, yes, even myself.)  were confused. 

The connection I am making here is both mental health and gender + sexual exploration awareness are both relatively new developments in mainstream society. So how can I blame myself for being in the position I am now?  For example, it’s only a few months ago that the Vatican called for new policies to integrate trans people into the church.

 https://glaad.org/pope-francis-calls-for-the-inclusion-of-trans-people-in-catholic-practices/
 

Quote

Did you know from early age that you want to change your gender?

I had glimpses here and there, but nobody there to support or guide me through it since it was taboo to even entertain. 

Edited February 29 by Yimpa

[Consept]

33 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Consept I wonder what my life would’ve looked like if I had been able to access hormones as a kid vs. psychiatric pills. I only came out as trans recently, at the age of 27.

I do look back at my life with grief, but it could not have been any other way based on the culture and time I wound up in.

I can imagine it mustve been very tough, but also keep in mind a lot of people dont have good guidance when theyre growing up whatever their situation. Your situation is less well understood by your parents generation but so are a lot of mental health issues and challenges of growing up in the world as it is. Point being dont beat yourself up, it wasnt your fault but now, as an adult, it is your responsibility if you want to make the most of your life. 

The flip of what youre saying though in is that lets say hypothetically you werent really trans but had other issues and thought you were trans and then took hormones and changed your body, you may later have regretted that and blamed your parents as well, which is the case in some situations today. 

[Nivsch]

@Yimpa Of course you couldn't do anything otherwise. You are right.

Thank you for the sharing.

How do you feel today?

[bebotalk]

One can be progressive and want an egalitarian society without descending to wokeism. @Consept Wokeism is the unhealthy extreme.

[bebotalk]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All that means is that wokeness (Green) hadn't gone mainstream back then. The difference is today it's mainstream and now the conservatives are butt-hurt that they lost that culture war. Conservatives want to return to the pre-Hippie era.

Btw, the Hippie movement had quite a big impact on mainstream culture, but some of the impact was subtle and took decades to blossom.

I disagree. Hippies were a minority and mild annoyance. I don't further agree that any radicalism or progressivism is wokeism.

[bebotalk]

4 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

What we need is the hippie movement. What we need is conservative ways to die. They’ve held society back too long with their grasping and fear and insane attachment to the old ways of doing things. Leaving little space for evolution, new ideas, change, love and freedom 

Not all change is inherently good or desirable. 

[Danioover9000]

@martins name

On 28/02/2024 at 2:52 PM, martins name said:

I guess a more interesting question is how do you draw the distinction, instead of how is it drawn in the culture at large? I did not intend for this thread to be about hippies vs woke. My point is that woke is a subcategory of green. I don't know exactly how. Is it perhaps green taken as a political ideology? But then can there be green political ideology that isn't woke?

   YES! Precisely where woke is is wokeism, but mainly immature stage green madness coopted by internet cultures and ideologies. TradCon is like the alt right and conservative online varient, while tankies are more socialism and progressive online variants. Wokeism is the typical snow flake, SJW, hyper feminist, karen, secular/atheist hyper lefty. Most annoying ones are the loudest in social media websites like Tik Tok and twitter.

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

On 28/02/2024 at 9:33 PM, bebotalk said:

Woke is a perversion of egalitarianism.

It calls for things that are loosely based on an egalitarian angle but are twisted with neo-Marxist theory.

It's woke that calls for university safe spaces, for anti-abortion speakers on campuses and other such evils. 

It calls for cancel culture, because a content creator said a usually bigoted term in a non-bigoted context. Because banishment is always an effective tool of social regulation. 

It calls for xenogenders, and twisting people into extreme trans ideology.

it says that any edgy humour, even if done by people of a group that it supposedly hurts, is evil and bigoted. Disabled people cannot make edgy jokes about disability, since it's harmful. 

It calls on saying people who lived long ago, who lived in times when bigotry was more common, should never, ever, be highlighted due to their beliefs. Why not tear down the Abraham Lincoln Memorial in DC, since whilst he was an abolitionist, he wanted to take the freed blacks back to Africa?

It calls for making historical figures that were proven to be white non-white in popular media. And refuses to make media of prominent non-white figures, since it's "punching up". 

The fathers of contemporary egalitarianism, in spirit anyhow, are Gandhi, Dr. King, and Malcolm X. They wouldn't agree with contemporary wokeism. 

Wokeism isn't the same as standard feminism, anti-racism, etc. It's a distortion of such which causes division and is not actually egalitarian. 

Woke isn't just being radical for a given time. It's imho at least a specific interpretation of egalitarian thought that seeks division and not inclusivity. 

The 1990s was the ideal balance. One can call out and condemn bigotry, but not censor comedians who say edgy jokes, since nuance is lost in the human condition and anybody who is ever edgy is inherently bigoted and only ever using such as a mask for their negative views. Chris Rock, a black man no less, couldn't do his famous "ns vs. black people" set today - he'd be called racist when he's black himself, and that was a sentiment that many successful and productive black Americans believed. And still DO BELIEVE. 

 

   True. SJW, karens, hyper feminists, basically the most annoying manipulative manifestations of stage green multiplied by the internet social media and forums.

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

On 28/02/2024 at 10:37 PM, Leo Gura said:

Wokeness is whatever right-wingers happpen to be in denial about at the moment.

   But that's such a broad definition it isn't fair to some of the more moderate right and it just being an only right winger denial. So if a moderate or slight right is in denial of early transition surgery on young children, that's wokeism? So if a centrist moderator, or even a democrat is a bit concerned about early transgender surgery sex change...it's not wokeism? And companies who're making their ads more LGBTQ...not wokeism?

[Danioover9000]

@mrPixel

On 29/02/2024 at 2:09 AM, mrPixel said:

I should amend my last statement. You can be a lefty and still protest against wokeism.

But like I said earlier, it will be a difficult term to define until there's some agreement on what it actually means.

   I'll try: it's wokeism when it's fantasy and not real world reality. SJW, Karens, these types who spend too much time on Tik Tok getting tik tok brain, too much social media, all these increases of ADD/ADHD, narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy, false beauty and dating standards, mind assaulting algorithms and A.I hyper curate content, all predatory capitalism of social media sites. These devices have spread mental illness, which is why I say the internet has multiplied the excess unhealthy stage green groups and values, making them blindly believe more and more in fantasy and getting more and more higher rates of divorce from reality, REALity. Too much reactionary content, clout chasing, bad faith agendas, moral degradation.

[mrPixel]

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

it's wokeism when it's fantasy and not real world reality

Exactly

[Danioover9000]

   This thread is gonna be another drama stir.

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Thank you for the sharing.

How do you feel today?

Thank you for asking! I feel blessed and thankful… surrounding myself more and more with supportive communities I feel authentic around (this forum included!)

I’ve also been healing with my immediate family and communicating with them much more authentically… I am so glad that we’ve created a space with each other where I can be “woke” while still respecting their conservative views. We used to be at war with each other, but now the dust is settling and lots of beauty is springing out.