Plant based?

[yetineti]

I noticed ‘plant based diet’ mentioned in the fundamentals portion of the site.

Where do you stand on that? Do you eat meat?

Edited February 27 by yetineti

[Jason Actualization]

I personally advise against it, albeit, I appreciate anyone who approaches their nutrition with deliberation, as plant-based folks do. There are a plethora of potential problems I could expound upon that would discourage one from adopting a plant-based diet, but quite frankly, such pales in comparison to the problems inherent to the Frankenfoods that profoundly permeate the modern food supply chain.

I buy 90% beef, by the kilogram, and eat approximately 400g per day as the primary staple of my nutrition, alongside 2 whole eggs and a liter of whole milk. Meat is divinely healthy, but unfortunately there are no, as far as I can tell, sequence of syllables that I could construct to convince you of that in a forum post.

Fortunately, my goal is not to convince folks, but rather, to invite them to explore the power of a food-first approach to optimizing their experience of life. If you are open to adopting a new approach nutritionally, I'd love to learn about the one you have previously and are currently adopting, and what elicited the curiosity you seem to have regarding potential alternatives.

[cjoseph90]

 

Jason, intresting diet you have there. I actually agree with you that red meat has a lot of health benefits, along with the Rice and eggs. I am trying to eat more of these things regulary.

Do you sometimes eat fruits/ veggies? Or do you get these vitamins mostly through supplements.

Also how do you incorperate the gelatine powder into your diet? Im curious

Btw enjoying your YouTube vids, very informative. I know mainly aimed at guys but im loving the práctical self help, development videos. As i struggle with a lot of issues such as los self esteem ect./ Self Love so i can relate to a lot of your contento. Will keep watching. Very refreshing also the depth and typé if information you provide. Well done friend i wish you Best with the Channel.

@Jason Actualization

Edited February 28 by cjoseph90

[Jason Actualization]

10 hours ago, cjoseph90 said:

Do you sometimes eat fruits/ veggies? Or do you get these vitamins mostly through supplements

Fruits and veggies are great antioxidant sources and they offer our best protection yet against cardiovascular and cerebrovascular disease, but my preference is to opt only for the absolute epitome of such foods, which in my strong opinion is 100% pomegranate juice (wild blueberries are great as well, and fruit/berries in general are perfectly fine assuming you keep your fructose intake below 100 grams daily from any/all sources as a hard limit, but <50g ideally).

But yes, my preference is to use highly specific/targeted supplementation, chelated minerals not least of which, as opposed to going out of my way to derive absolutely everything from whole food, which invariably adds such things as phytoestrogens, oxalates, and antinutrients which would render a net negative all things considered. I will make a video delineating the rationale for each and every one of these supplements that I take. There are so many futile and often times counterproductive supplements (vitamin E products that lack gamma tocopherols as one example or the use of vitamin K2 MK-7 as opposed to MK-4) on the market which makes it confusing and difficult to navigate.

11 hours ago, cjoseph90 said:

Also how do you incorperate the gelatine powder into your diet? Im curious

Great question, so gelatin is something I take (10 g of) alongside 500mg of vitamin C every morning several hours before my first meal (I separate my vitamin C from my beef to ensure my ferritin levels don't become excessive, other folks may actually benefit from increasing their iron absorption so this is highly individual).

The benefit of taking gelatin is that it increases circulating glycine, proline, hydroxyproline, and hydroxylysine levels which are primary and rate-limiting amino acids involved in connective tissue (tendons etc) protein synthesis. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is a cofactor in this process. Having high levels of circulating glycine, proline, hydroxyproline, hydroxylysine and ascorbic acid at the same time fosters an environment conducive to accelerated connective tissue repair/regeneration.

Consume it in whatever way is most palatable to you (I toss and wash it with ease, but you could experiment with dissolving it in a greater volume of water as well).

11 hours ago, cjoseph90 said:

Btw enjoying your YouTube vids, very informative. I know mainly aimed at guys but im loving the práctical self help, development videos. As i struggle with a lot of issues such as los self esteem ect./ Self Love so i can relate to a lot of your contento. Will keep watching. Very refreshing also the depth and typé if information you provide. Well done friend i wish you Best with the Channel.

Amazing, thank you so much! When I encounter people in my life with low self-esteem, it reminds me how remarkably important this work is, which from where I'm standing, starts with putting food and physiology first foundationally, and then emphasizing other elements of the dynamic puzzle of life later on, from a solid foundation that quite frankly, almost nobody has properly constructed.

[cjoseph90]

Ok thanks for your answer

[Nilsi]

My diet used to be quite similar to that of Mr. Jason (except I consumed more fruit, in the style of Ray Peat). However, after some time, it became clear to me that this approach was neither sustainable, ethical, nor optimal for my health. What I will say is that this way of eating provides a ton of energy, albeit of very low quality. Essentially, you sacrifice mental clarity and all higher faculties for a very crude, adolescent-like energy.

Nowadays, my diet is a hybrid between Bryan Johnson’s Blueprint and Dave Asprey’s Headstrong diet, with heavy supplementation on the nootropic side. It focuses on emphasizing cognitive performance, while keeping trade-offs in other areas to a minimum. Essentially, I try to make it as holistic as possible. I also try to minimize my consumption of animal products, as long as it doesn’t impinge on my health and performance.

I eat a nice entrecôte every evening, consume some butter and ghee, collagen from various animal sources (fish skin, eggshells, and beef bones), fish oil and some organs and bone broth from reindeers. It sounds like a lot, but it actually isn’t—it just gives me all the benefits of eating animal-based products while consuming as little of the animal as possible.

Besides that, my diet mainly consists of non-animal fats (coconut, avocado), vegetables, legumes, grains, and nuts.

Edited March 2 by Nilsi

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

My diet used to be quite similar to that of Mr. Jason (except I consumed more fruit, in the style of Ray Peat). However, after some time, it became clear to me that this approach was neither sustainable, ethical, nor optimal for my health. What I will say is that this way of eating provides a ton of energy, albeit of very low quality. Essentially, you sacrifice mental clarity and all higher faculties for a very crude, adolescent-like energy.

Nowadays, my diet is a hybrid between Bryan Johnson’s Blueprint and Dave Asprey’s Headstrong diet, with heavy supplementation on the nootropic side. It focuses on emphasizing cognitive performance, while keeping trade-offs in other areas to a minimum. Essentially, I try to make it as holistic as possible. I also try to minimize my consumption of animal products, as long as it doesn’t impinge on my health and performance.

I eat a nice entrecôte every evening, consume some butter and ghee, collagen from various animal sources (fish skin, eggshells, and beef bones), fish oil and some organs and bone broth from reindeers. It sounds like a lot, but it actually isn’t—it just gives me all the benefits of eating animal-based products while consuming as little of the animal as possible.

Very interesting. I have got some questions. 

1) Nice that you got better mental clarity. How big is the difference?

2) From the animal products that you do consume, which health and performance benefits do you think you get and why do you consume exactly these foods to get them?

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

Besides that, my diet mainly consists of non-animal fats (coconut, avocado), vegetables, legumes, grains, and nuts.

3) So you do kind of a low carb thing?

[Jason Actualization]

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

What I will say is that this way of eating provides a ton of energy, albeit of very low quality.

What constitutes "very low quality" energy in your estimation? I am typing this now 1 hour after consuming a 1500+ calorie breakfast, and I am experiencing no compromise of mental clarity.

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Nowadays, my diet is a hybrid between Bryan Johnson’s Blueprint and Dave Asprey’s Headstrong diet, with heavy supplementation on the nootropic side.

Did you ever find it odd that heavy supplementation and nootropic use was necessitated for optimal performance after adopting their way of eating?

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

My diet used to be quite similar to that of Mr. Jason (except I consumed more fruit, in the style of Ray Peat).

I prioritize starch over fructose, which is one of the reasons I had 0 detectable visceral fat on DEXA scan while being 12.4% body fat overall (not even remotely shredded).

5 hours ago, Nilsi said:

I eat a nice entrecôte every evening, consume some butter and ghee, collagen from various animal sources (fish skin, eggshells, and beef bones), fish oil and some organs and bone broth from reindeers. 

This is all great my man, with the exception of ghee, which is one of the most toxic products in the food supply chain that nobody mainstream enough has caught on to.

The process of clarifying butter to ghee, gives rise to an appreciable amount of oxysterols which are directly atherogenic.

There are several studies, one such titled "Oxidized Cholesterol in the Diet Accelerates the Development of Aortic Atherosclerosis in Cholesterol-Fed Rabbits" showing a 100% increase in fatty streak lesions in the aorta after feeding rabbits oxidized cholesterol. By consuming ghee, you are ingesting copious amounts of oxidized cholesterol.

This stuff is nasty my friend, and unfortunately most everyone is praising it unknowingly.

[aurum]

24 minutes ago, Jason Actualization said:

The process of clarifying butter to ghee, gives rise to an appreciable amount of oxysterols which are directly atherogenic.

 

Do you have a source? I’m not seen any human studies claiming that oxysterols are directly atherogenic, only correlated. 

[Nilsi]

7 hours ago, Jason Actualization said:

What constitutes "very low quality" energy in your estimation? I am typing this now 1 hour after consuming a 1500+ calorie breakfast, and I am experiencing no compromise of mental clarity.

How would you know? You're like a fish in water.

In any case, I'm sure different things work for different people. I have tried virtually every way of eating over the past 5+ years, from carnivore to vegan, keto to Ray Peat, and everything in between - so I guess I would know what works for me.

7 hours ago, Jason Actualization said:

Did you ever find it odd that heavy supplementation and nootropic use was necessitated for optimal performance after adopting their way of eating?

Where did I imply that this was necessitated by my change in diet?

I have always been interested in nootropics. I took them before, and I take them now. They significantly improve my cognitive functions on top of an already great nutrition and lifestyle foundation.

7 hours ago, Jason Actualization said:

This is all great my man, with the exception of ghee, which is one of the most toxic products in the food supply chain that nobody mainstream enough has caught on to.

The process of clarifying butter to ghee, gives rise to an appreciable amount of oxysterols which are directly atherogenic.

There are several studies, one such titled "Oxidized Cholesterol in the Diet Accelerates the Development of Aortic Atherosclerosis in Cholesterol-Fed Rabbits" showing a 100% increase in fatty streak lesions in the aorta after feeding rabbits oxidized cholesterol. By consuming ghee, you are ingesting copious amounts of oxidized cholesterol.

This stuff is nasty my friend, and unfortunately most everyone is praising it unknowingly.

I consume it in moderation, and feel good doing so. Never heard about that, and some quick research doesn’t confirm this either.

Edited March 3 by Nilsi

[Nilsi]

12 hours ago, Jannes said:

1) Nice that you got better mental clarity. How big is the difference?

It is very noticeable. Like a discrete phase shift towards higher clarity.

12 hours ago, Jannes said:

2) From the animal products that you do consume, which health and performance benefits do you think you get and why do you consume exactly these foods to get them?

I've always felt great after eating high-quality red meat, so I definitely didn't want to give that up. Besides that, are high-quality, organic sources of important nutrients (healthy fats, proteins, amino acids, minerals, etc.) and, to a large extent, products that in the current system would usually have gone to waste anyway (bones, organs, eggshells, fish skin).

I did not sit down one day and come up with some sort of grand scheme; this is mostly based on trial and error and, of course, informed by research.

I couldn't tell you with confidence that this current configuration is the perfect one; it's just one that currently works for me.

12 hours ago, Jannes said:

3) So you do kind of a low carb thing?

Yes, I have much more sustained energy and drive that way.

Edited March 3 by Nilsi

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

It is very noticeable. Like a discrete phase shift towards higher clarity.

Very interesting to hear. Especially because many carnivore advocates say that its exactly the opposite. What do you think about that?

Quote

I've always felt great after eating high-quality red meat, so I definitely didn't want to give that up. Besides that, are high-quality, organic sources of important nutrients (healthy fats, proteins, amino acids, minerals, etc.)

Yeah there is no denying that red meat is great for these nutrients.  

Quote

and, to a large extent, products that in the current system would usually have gone to waste anyway (bones, organs, eggshells, fish skin).

Yes that's super true. Stage yellow ethics. And these things especially organs are funnily enough often way more nutrient dense. The problem I see with organs is that lots of pollutants can collect on these parts of the animal body.

Quote

I did not sit down one day and come up with some sort of grand scheme; this is mostly based on trial and error and, of course, informed by research.

I couldn't tell you with confidence that this current configuration is the perfect one; it's just one that currently works for me.

Thanks for you intellectual honesty, it's refreshing. 

Quote

Yes, I have much more sustained energy and drive that way.

Cool. I think it's a bit of a genetic thing as well on how well you function with carbs. Some people become to dozy and chill with too much carbs I heard. 

Edited March 3 by Jannes

[Jason Actualization]

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

How would you know? You're like a fish in water.

You just responded to my genuine question by posing a totally tangential question to me. Please reread my question and actually address it if you don't mind.

9 hours ago, aurum said:

Do you have a source? I’m not seen any human studies claiming that oxysterols are directly atherogenic, only correlated. 

Yes, give me some time to compile the relevant literature and I will streamline it as much as possible for you.

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

I consume it in moderation, and feel good doing so. Never heard about that, and some quick research doesn’t confirm this either.

It's not well known yet, not dissimilar to the deleterious impact that ancestrally inconsistent and frankly impossible amounts of linoleic acid intake is conferring mankind with. I did my best to warn you, but as promised, will compile the relevant literature which hopefully will convince you otherwise.

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

I couldn't tell you with confidence that this current configuration is the perfect one; it's just one that currently works for me.

You've arrived at a point in your physiology optimization that sadly will be shared by very few humans that you cross paths with in your life, well done my friend.

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

Very interesting to hear. Especially because many carnivore advocates say that its exactly the opposite. What do you think about that?

On a carnivore diet, I also felt great for a while, but after a couple of months, it went downhill (even though I supplemented with a shit ton of micronutrients).

Intuitively, it feels more correct to eat a wide variety of high-quality foods than to eat one kind of food all the time, and empirically, I can verify this as well. As far as a rational explanation for this, I'm at a loss.

[Nilsi]

7 minutes ago, Jason Actualization said:

You just responded to my genuine question by posing a totally tangential question to me. Please reread my question and actually address it if you don't mind.

I would have to give you an elaborate phenomenological description of my subjective experience, which I'm not interested in attempting to conjure up.

[Jason Actualization]

31 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

On a carnivore diet, I also felt great for a while, but after a couple of months, it went downhill (even though I supplemented with a shit ton of micronutrients).

Intuitively, it feels more correct to eat a wide variety of high-quality foods than to eat one kind of food all the time, and empirically, I can verify this as well. As far as a rational explanation for this, I'm at a loss.

The rationale is that a wide variety of high-quality foods keeps you out of ketosis, which is far better for fostering optimized endocrinology (i.e., lower cortisol levels, higher free testosterone).

28 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I would have to give you an elaborate phenomenological description of my subjective experience, which I'm not interested in attempting to conjure up.

Fair enough my friend, I had just never encountered the concept of "crude, adolescent-like energy" but you've certainly piqued my curiosity.

I eat 300+ grams of carbohydrates daily, predominately from white rice and am able to weight train for hours on end, performing 60+ set workouts, but I am equally able to be perfectly still in meditation, or look deeply into a girl's eyes as an active listener, being present for her.

It's important to note however that I am unusually insulin sensitive and that most people will not thrive in the context of the high carb diet I consume, because they lack the metabolic flexibility. On November 28th last year (2023) I did an oral glucose tolerance test.

I downed 75 grams of pure sugar in the span of 5 seconds, and you can see here my glucose and insulin levels 1 and 2 hours later. My fasting glucose was 76, and 1 hour after consuming the sugar drink, it actually dropped to 68, and then even further to 59 at 2 hours post consumption, primarily because of my appreciable muscle mass which serve as a glucose sink.

[Nilsi]

2 hours ago, Jason Actualization said:

The rationale is that a wide variety of high-quality foods keeps you out of ketosis, which is far better for fostering optimized endocrinology (i.e., lower cortisol levels, higher free testosterone).

If you combine foods in the correct way and ratio, you can maintain ketosis even while consuming a wide variety of foods.

I've ordered some ketone test strips and will try to back up that claim with empirical evidence.

[MarkKol]

I think meat is fine not considering the ethical side of things, It’s much more important to keep your diet unprocessed and in energy balance than jumping from meat to plants and vice versa.

Obesity will kill you much sooner than any food, whatever your opinion on that food is.

Vegetables are probably the healthiest, my stomach has made that clear to me, that being said, you can’t just fill your entire day with vegetables no matter how many you consume, you need calories, you need protein now and you’ll need it even more in 20 years due to sarcopenia. I opted for a high-fat, moderately high-protein, and low-carb diet. Avocados, broccoli, radishes, real olive oil, chia seeds, oatmeal currently pausing eggs and beef. Protein powders are also ok if you can find one that you can actually consume that isn’t filled with shit. Again, vegetables over meat is not a power law of health, but unprocessed over processed is.

Saturated fat found in meat will raise ApoB in most/many individuals. Higher ApoB = higher risk of heart disease. So choose lean meats preferably. Meat is not a processed food however, it has nutrients. Low visceral fat, strong grip strength, ideal weight/BMI, and muscle mass can all be ideal with or without it so don't let these YouTube gymbros fool you into thinking that animal-based or carnivore is somehow the only way, It's not. Paul Saldino's cholesterol is sky-high in his own words.

The future of humanity is probably plant-based due to ethics. Truvani makes some expensive protein powders with minimal ingredients, I don't really know how they taste though, I wouldn't force myself to eat them. VivoLife, although expensive and higher than average quality, makes some pretty disgusting protein powders IMO, to each their own. Lean poultry seems to have fewer nutrients than red meat but is lower in saturated fat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq1R0QuBNfI

Edited March 6 by MarkKol

[Michael569]

19 hours ago, MarkKol said:

I think meat is fine not considering the ethical side of things, It’s much more important to keep your diet unprocessed and in energy balance than jumping from meat to plants and vice versa.

Obesity will kill you much sooner than any food, whatever your opinion on that food is.

Vegetables are probably the healthiest, my stomach has made that clear to me, that being said, you can’t just fill your entire day with vegetables no matter how many you consume, you need calories, you need protein now and you’ll need it even more in 20 years due to sarcopenia. I opted for a high-fat, moderately high-protein, and low-carb diet. Avocados, broccoli, radishes, real olive oil, chia seeds, oatmeal currently pausing eggs and beef. Protein powders are also ok if you can find one that you can actually consume that isn’t filled with shit. Again, vegetables over meat is not a power law of health, but unprocessed over processed is.

Saturated fat found in meat will raise ApoB in most/many individuals. Higher ApoB = higher risk of heart disease. So choose lean meats preferably. Meat is not a processed food however, it has nutrients. Low visceral fat, strong grip strength, ideal weight/BMI, and muscle mass can all be ideal with or without it so don't let these YouTube gymbros fool you into thinking that animal-based or carnivore is somehow the only way, It's not. Paul Saldino's cholesterol is sky-high in his own words.

^ nice comment 

[yetineti]

@MarkKol @Nilsi @cjoseph90 @Jason Actualization

Thanks for all of your responses.

I got about what I thought I would- although I still wonder Leo’s response just because I found it so curious that ‘plant based’ was in the fundamentals section.

Personally, I am actually not having much issues with my diet.

I am 22 and definitely have a long way on the consistency side of things but here’s what I center around:

Supplements:

Vitamin D, K2, Magnesium, Fish oil, iron (anemic), organic whey, collagen

Nootropics:

l-theanine (I love this stuff), I tried 5-HTP (wasn’t for me)

Main foods:

Lean beef, eggs, chicken, turkey, steak, etc.

Fruits: 

Apples, bananas, blueberries. Any fruit that is either filling and snack worthy, nutrient dense or easily washed/organic.

Veggies:

I honestly opt for low sodium V8s, superfood supplements, etc. here.

Trying to steam more broccoli and beans again though.

Regardless, this is about the best I’ve ever felt. 
 

I personally don’t understand the planted based thing, including the ethics. For reference, I did try it haha and if I wasn’t scared of lab meat I’d eat that instead of killing things.