What's an incel mindset?

[Consept]

The incel mindset is a victim narrative and ideology that is used to absolve responsibility from the person for their inability to attract a female. 

Meaning they blame society and women specifically rather than looking at what they can do and the reason why someone might not be attracted to them. 

Where I might sympathise with them, is society does give you the message that sex and relationships are so easy to attain and so rewarding. The general message is that if you don't get a date, you're a loser or if you're not married with kids you're a loser, which can easily make you feel depressed if you don't get these things. Also, unless you have a healthy masculine role model who can teach you positive mindsets and practical ways to talk to women, you will be lost in how to actually improve.

So much so it may seem impossible and when an ideology comes along that explains to you none of this is your fault and it's all because the distance between your eyes is too much or too little, you can see how attractive that might be. Essentially they feel hopeless and the ideology gives the message to embrace the hopelessness, further cementing it through different ideas about female nature etc, even if they don't have direct experience of challenging these ideas, they will still take them on. For example they will convince themselves that they're ugly even if objectively they're not, which for most of them is true. They'll also call any attempt to improve a cope. 

It's like having an ideology that there's nothing you can do about being fat, it might be true for some of them but the vast majority would be able to change it. 

[bebotalk]

there should be mandatory mental health checks in schools. and for all people, not just those with diagnosed conditions. maybe a weekly counselling session,where any and all information can. be collated and expressed in confidence. 

If a young guy wants to rape a woman because she's part of a "class" that is denying him the right/opportunity to date, then it's clearly an unhealthy mind that is making such a thought process.

[Schizophonia]

On 28/02/2024 at 1:30 AM, bebotalk said:

A number of incels have jobs. They don't want friends, they want partners. They often go on the internet because of their problems. Saying they should work and not worry about it is reductive.

You can't not want friends and at the same time want a girlfriend, it's a view of the mind that has no virtual reality.
Possibly you are dystimic or something like that, you don't want to see relationships in general but tell yourself that you would like to have a girlfriend so you can ruminate and enrich your character of "the one who can't have a girlfriend...".

It's still bad, stressful energy that makes you crazy in the long run, but people ruminate anyway because it's worse to having no energy at all. (as in depression).
It's energetic Junk Food, literally lol.

Edited February 29 by Schizophonia

[bebotalk]

13 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

You can't not want friends and at the same time want a girlfriend, it's a view of the mind that has no virtual reality.
Possibly you are dystimic or something like that, you don't want to see relationships in general but tell yourself that you would like to have a girlfriend so you can ruminate and enrich your character of "the one who can't have a girlfriend...".

It's still bad, stressful energy that makes you crazy in the long run, but people ruminate anyway because it's worse than having no energy at all. (as in depression).
It's energetic Junk Food, literally lol.

There are people who are loners or hermits who want and have relationships. I don't see it as that diametrically opposed, and there is no real connection between the two.

[Israfil]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

It's still bad, stressful energy that makes you crazy in the long run, but people ruminate anyway because it's worse than having no energy at all. (as in depression).

Stress is one of the greatest stimulants that are available to us endogenously. If you're depressed, you might unconsciously seek stress as a way to self-regulate. 

My caffeine abuse in my late teens was exactly this.

[numbersinarow]

Keep in mind that I have been exposed to the fact that cults control everything and that supernatural intrinsic luck is real, then read the nonsense on this thread from my perspective.

You can say "they blame society" and think of yourself as smart, but the truth is nothing else could be at fault for someone not having the opportunity to talk to a girl and for that to go somewhere. The reason that people succeed at what they try, but when it comes to sex they fail, is because of the nature of attaining sex in modern society. It is the problem, other fields don't have this problem.

[Basman]

2 hours ago, numbersinarow said:

You can say "they blame society" and think of yourself as smart, but the truth is nothing else could be at fault for someone not having the opportunity to talk to a girl and for that to go somewhere. The reason that people succeed at what they try, but when it comes to sex they fail, is because of the nature of attaining sex in modern society. It is the problem, other fields don't have this problem.

The reason men are having less sex now is because they are less social than before, spending too much time on their own with technology. Guys tend to attach importance to having sex but the truth is that sex isn't really that big of a priority for "isolated males". Incels care more about gaming than they do sex by virtue of their actions.

Sex is more free than it has ever been, with modern contraption, the internet and the destigmatization of sex. You could hire a prossie and have sex by tomorrow if you really wanted to.

Incel ideology convinces you of your own inadequacy and powerlessness to change. And it just makes you feel worse, all while not being true. It is cringe.

[Agrande]

“Nature is unkind: It treats the creation like sacrificial straw-dogs. The Sage is unkind: He treats the people like sacrificial straw-dogs.”

[Agrande]

A lot of incels have bad trauma from early life experiences and also from bullying. I think trauma makes people stuck in victim mode and also makes people act in immature ways. My point is that it's not their fault. If they had the self awareness to absolve and make peace with their trauma, I think the trajectory of their lives would be a lot better. That's basically what they would call the "whitepill". A lot of incels are neurodivergent too. Stuff like mild autism, aspergers etc.

This neurodivergence and also other disorders they may have, it makes them unattractive to be around as people because others easily pick up on their demeanour and want to stay away because it doesn't make them feel safe or comfortable. These people are usually quiet and awkward with bad social skills. They usually don't have any charm and are seen as invisible and plain to others. Not seen as neurotypical so to say. This obviously makes things worse for the incel and he picks up on all of this. He then blends this type of thing into his ideology and it becomes more of a self fulfilling prophecy. And then it becomes more of a they/them thing as the isolation, disconnection and separation increases.

Trauma makes people immature because they then lack the awareness to see that the trauma, all the bad thoughts and all the hate and violence in their behaviour also rubs off on other people and kind of passes on the cycles of suffering in a way. It easily becomes a they vs them sort of thing. It becomes like an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth type of thing. I totally get why they would feel this kind of thing. It's like generational trauma but without the family. In the moment, they can't see past their own traumas and suffering. Almost like they're blinded by it

These kinds of people are stuck in their head a lot. They can be really smart but they also struggle with getting stuck in ruts and counterproductive patterns of thought. I think perhaps they have an addictive personality too (meaning as in they can easily get absorbed and addicted into things). Genetics play a big role in determining this sort of behaviour but by increasing self awareness and a sort of metacognition, I think people can transcend that.

Personal choices are a really big factor in life trajectory anyway. If people didn't stay in ignorance and had the foresight, wisdom and intelligence to navigate through life and its traps by making good, well thought out decisions, they would avoid a lot of life ruining things. This is why self education is important.

It's a combination of environment, genetics and mindset issues. A lot of cards are stacked against these sort of people and all I can say is that I hope they get through it and find some sort of peace and contentment with their lives without going off the deep end and letting their traumas get the better of them.

Edited May 27 by Agrande

[Javfly33]

@Buck Edwards An incel is a weak men that thinks females owe him something. 

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, Javfly33 said:

@Buck Edwards An incel is a weak meni that thinks females owe him something. 

I guess it's more in the territory of red pill. 

[Emerald]

On 2/27/2024 at 8:44 AM, Buck Edwards said:

I think primarily incel mindset is about feeling unfair on how you're treated by the opposite gender and this transforming into a rush of hate, revenge and resentment against the opposite gender. Is it like hurt people hurt people? 

It would make sense to understand the underlying resentment and why it evolves in the first place. If someone feels sidelined for the longest time in life, I guess at some point the frustration boils over and it's reasonable why this frustration then funnels into extreme resentment. I mean nobody should have to feel a sense of unfairness in life. Everyone deserves love. 

I'm not defending incels. Just providing a context and reasoning to why this could happen. 

It's a bit deeper than that.

It doesn't actually have that much to do with the opposite sex or being side-lined by the opposite sex. That's mostly just a transference of deeper seated feelings onto a scapegoat because their deeper seated feelings tend to be triggered in dating and relationship contexts.

And the opposite sex just becomes a projection screen to shadow box with their "inner demons."

The difference between an Incel and a non-Incel isn't that the Incel is inherently less attractive to women. The difference is that the Incel is dealing with crippling feelings of shame that makes him much more sensitive to rejection... and internalizing that rejection as meaning something core to his sense of self and his sense of validity.

And this kind of shame pattern tends to impact men more than women in part because most women don't do as much approaching and can derive a sense of security in the ability to connect by having men approaching her.... and in part because men are often expected (and expect one another) to match up to an idealized image of masculinity.

And there hasn't been a male equivalent to women's lib.

So, there's a pattern where men are stuck a bit more in patterns around traditional gendered expectations. And they can even be ridiculed or bullied by their male friends and acquaintances for straying from those expectations. And they will often be called feminine insults to get them to fall back in line with traditional masculine social expectations, which further exacerbates the shame of not matching up to idealized masculine expectations.

Another thing that contributes to this issue is isolation and unmet connection needs more generally... which is reflective of collective social ails that have eroded community and interdependence.

So it is this starvation for connection coupled with shame... interacting with online culture's tendency to create echo chambers around specific "vibrations" of pain.