The Ego Disappeared. Do You Have Any Questions? :)

[WelcometoReality]

@Shin Yes. If something is trying to define itself through past or future experiences, characterics like enlightenment or being good, bad, smart, dumb it's not empty. It can be seen so it can't be "you".

[RossE]

@SOUL I disagree. He has seen beyond the veil and wants to give fellow seekers some pointers to see beyond it too. There's nothing wrong with that. You're closing yourself off to helpful information by getting caught in word games.

Usually during awakenings people really want to tell others about the experience for various reasons, I know I did on my first few.

Edited April 13, 2017 by RossE

[SOUL]

8 hours ago, RossE said:

@SOUL I disagree. He has seen beyond the veil and wants to give fellow seekers some pointers to see beyond it too. There's nothing wrong with that. You're closing yourself off to helpful information by getting caught in word games.

Usually during awakenings people really want to tell others about the experience for various reasons, I know I did on my first few.

You didn't quote a comment of mine so I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with since I have replied a number of times in this thread. Although if I were to take a guess from your comment I would think you are referring to my initial reply when I asked "why tell anyone".

I wasn't trying to be critical of them or undermining their experience at all, my apologies if anyone thought I was, it was really just a tongue in cheek question reflecting the paradox of the idea in losing one's ego and speaking about it. As the thread continued it actually opened up some interesting discussion and exchange of ideas.

We use words to communicate and yes, these are simply representations of ideas and concepts which can be a challenge to define and know if another has the same representations but I in no way intended to play with words to confuse or disrupt the discussion. I am open to all ideas but I explore and examine them all, especially my own.

While I appreciate your gesture to defend the individual in expressing their own experiences and sharing it with others you may be misunderstanding my intent here.

[zazed]

21 hours ago, SOUL said:

Well, I don't view the mind as being just ego or the ego being all the mind is. I see the mind as the canvas that consciousness expresses itself on in my being, while ego is a facet of the self which my mind can be aware of.

We are saying the same stuff mostly. You are using consciousness in a way I've not seen used. Most teachers equal awareness and consciousness. And consciousness cannot express itself.  But they have a saying in Belgium "As long as the child has a name, it's fine".

• your ego, i suppose you mean the thinking mind = my mind with its aspects of thought and self
• your consciousness, i suppose you mean the 5 senses = my mind as arbiter of the senses, controlling them
• your mind, you equal this to awareness = my consciousness  (this is awareness, and the enlightened true self)

More or less, but the English language is failing us here actually.

I don't know why you differentiate between the mind expressing itself as images and sounds, versus the mind expressing itself as thoughts? But I've found the thinking mind influences everything you see, when you look at a car, it has a color, it's a nice or ugly car, you know its a car. This instant "knowing" of concepts related to the car is not pure awareness/consciousness, but the thinking mind labeling stuff. This knowing is expressed upon our consciousness, which is pure awareness. It's like consciousness/awareness is aware of the labels put on the car by the thinking mind, but there is awareness they are not my own labels. 

But again, the English language makes this horrible to explain  

[SOUL]

11 minutes ago, zazed said:

We are saying the same stuff mostly. You are using consciousness in a way I've not seen used. Most teachers equal awareness and consciousness. And consciousness cannot express itself.  But they have a saying in Belgium "As long as the child has a name, it's fine".

• your ego, i suppose you mean the thinking mind = my mind with its aspects of thought and self
• your consciousness, i suppose you mean the 5 senses = my mind as arbiter of the senses, controlling them
• your mind, you equal this to awareness = my consciousness  (this is awareness, and the enlightened true self)

More or less, but the English language is failing us here actually.

I don't know why you differentiate between the mind expressing itself as images and sounds, versus the mind expressing itself as thoughts? But I've found the thinking mind influences everything you see, when you look at a car, it has a color, it's a nice or ugly car, you know its a car. This instant "knowing" of concepts related to the car is not pure awareness/consciousness, but the thinking mind labeling stuff. This knowing is expressed upon our consciousness, which is pure awareness. It's like consciousness/awareness is aware of the labels put on the car by the thinking mind, but there is awareness they are not my own labels. 

But again, the English language makes this horrible to explain  

Most definitely using words to describe abstract ideas and concepts has it's limitations and challenges. Unfortunately, it appears I haven't done that well in describing the concepts behind the words because those descriptions of what you think are mine on those words aren't what the represent to me.  So I'm not sure if more words will be able to clarify my ideas.

Although i have to wonder why it is you think that "consciousness can't express itself". Maybe this is just another instance that language falls short in describing the abstract but I would be open to hearing more of an explanation of that. What most teachers equate doesn't matter to me, either, I'm not here trying to emulate anyone else, I share from my own experience and if it differs, so be it.

Our body has different methods of expressing the stored experience and how it contextualizes the present moment for our awareness, some of them may fall under the general word of thoughts that happen in the mind but there are many distinct varieties of mental, emotional and physical impulses in how we become aware of them.

It may just be beyond words to clarify, though.

[zazed]

16 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I share from my own experience

I expect nothing less . But when conversing we need to understand the other person's perspective, to be effective communicators.
My perspective, is that my true self is not this person or body, but pure being/existence in this moment. So anything i think, is not me.

Consciousness to me is awareness, it is pure being and presence, so these 4 concepts are synonyms to me with slightly different "taste".  Awareness or "being" doesn't express itself, it just exists, it just perceives. So if your consciousness expresses itself, then you must mean what i call the mind, because my mind expresses itself, or maybe something else entirely

Sight, or hearing and all senses are mind. They enter into consciousness, but they have no inherent meaning to it. To have a car enter consciousness as a car you need to first use the thinking mind. Because all human concepts, such as language, or the idea of what a car is, are unknown to consciousness. Consciousness is eternal, I learned about cars and colors when i was a kid. Sight also functions through the eyes and is facilitated by the brain, sight is part of the physical world inherently. So consciousness cannot know a car directly. Consciousness knows the car because it is aware of my mind knowing the car. The brain/body/thinking mind projects its experiences into consciousness, or rather consciousness is aware of it all.

Everything the mind thinks, sees, smells, feels, says, does, which can include control of the body. All of this enters consciousness, and consciousness is aware. But that is only regarding my body. Consciousness is aware of everything, more than just this body, it is aware without "knowing" anything.
Consciousness is limitless, this body and its mind are projected into it, but there is a lot more projected into it. Meaning we are not the body, nor the brain, nor the mind. We are consciousness and awareness itself.

Following my loose "definition", consciousness is something that inherently cannot express itself.
So you must mean something else, when you talk about consciousness, I think you might mean maybe "seeing" when you say consciousness, or even all the senses. I am not sure.

I don't use ego, because I just put everything this person Zazed thinks, sees, hears and says under "mind", because to consciousness it doesn't really matter in how many pieces i try to label my mind. The mind will never be consciousness. But that is atypical, and not something most do either, but it's my experience.

[SOUL]

39 minutes ago, zazed said:

I expect nothing less . But when conversing we need to understand the other person's perspective, to be effective communicators.

We need to? That's an impossible task.

I can barely understand my own perspective after countless hours of meditation and contemplation but I need to understand the perspective of others from a little discussion?

Sure I am open to hearing how others express their ideas and hope to gain an understanding of their perspective but I'm not sure I can even begin to communicate my own if I am trying to translate into their words as I'm doing it......without knowing their definitions... or context.....or symbology.....and if there's more than one I'm speaking with... for all of them at once.

If your perspective and the words you use to represent it works for you in achieving what you seek then celebrate that, you are further along the path than so many others even of them that have taken on the journey. I prefer to look past the words and hear the message a person is communicating because as we both have agreed that words can be limiting, like a limiting belief of language.

I don't care about the words, I'll throw all of my words out and use any of them, I'll use yours, it doesn't matter. Then the next person comes along and i have to rewrite my dictionary with their words, then again for the next person, then if there's more than one I will have a different dictionary for all of them. I"m not so hung up on my words as if i think there's something "right" about them.

Although to give you some insight into my perspective if i can do so, I approach it in a pragmatic manner so I can have a practical framing to do my inner work. I have very little to no "magical" aspects to it which sometimes can be challenging since so many of the ideas and concepts about it are so abstract including consciousness itself.

This leads me to be agnostic so to speak about a number popular ideas and concepts within spiritual and self-whatevering communities.

I don't really embrace the need to spend too much time parsing words and definitions, that's just my perspective I guess.

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by SOUL

[zazed]

@SOUL fair enough. i still would like more information to understand your views, if you're still willing to share? I didn't mean to imply anything about needing to understand eachother, was merely referring to our different usage of words not being a factor for disagreement, because they are just language. I could've used better wording.

[SOUL]

@zazed

I know this might not make any sense but I understand a person's message from how they use their words, not which words they use.

The enlightening process is mysterious enough.

[Awomanaware]

@Barna beautifully said. <3