Objections to or problems with Theravada Buddhism

[No_Manny]

The more I learn about Theravada Buddhism, the more I want to believe it! I would like to hear objections to or problems/difficulties you have with Theravada Buddhism. Thanks in advance.

[Creatorbeing]

What does it preach?explain key concepts.

Also, elaborate the idea of emptiness and nothingness if there is any,what does it say about nature of reality and it's mechanism and consciousness, what it is?asking to know out of curiosity. 

[CoolDreamThanks]

Buddha wasn't enlightened, so all sects of Buddhism are false.

[BipolarGrowth]

21 hours ago, Creatorbeing said:

What does it preach?explain key concepts.

Also, elaborate the idea of emptiness and nothingness if there is any,what does it say about nature of reality and its mechanism and consciousness, what it is?asking to know out of curiosity. 

The Four Noble Truths

1. There is suffering/dissatisfaction/stress/anxiety/lack of fulfillment inherent within life/existence. 
2. The cause of this suffering is clinging which arises from desire. 
3. There is a way to end suffering.

4. The Noble Eightfold Path (worth looking up) is the way to end suffering. 

The three marks or characteristics of existence are 

1. anicca - impermanence (everything changes, nothing and no one lasts forever)

2. dukkha - suffering/dissatisfaction/etc.

3. ānatta - non substantiality of the self/non self/no self

There is a process through which ignorance leads to suffering called dependent origination (worth looking up). The lasting eradication of this ignorance is full awakening. 
 

Brahman/Atman is not the ultimate truth or realization to be had. 

Consciousness is not permanent, some ultimate truth, or your true self. 

Gods are lesser when compared to one who is fully awake. 

The cultivation of unwholesome thoughts and states lead to suffering and ignorance. The cultivation of wholesome thoughts and states support awakening. Wholesome = free from the five hindrances of greed, ill will, ignorance, sloth and torpor, and restlessness. 
 

Emptiness isn’t focused on as much in Theravada as it is in later forms of Buddhism, but it is the idea that nothing at all has inherent existence or exists on its own. There is no self nature to phenomena. Everything leans on other parts of reality in order to appear how it does to us. Consciousness doesn’t exist on its own for example. It arises with craving, clinging, ignorance, material form, feelings, mental formations, and perception. Looking into dependent origination is a good way to see more what is meant by the term emptiness. Put simply, the experiential world is a sort of magical illusion with many parts working together simultaneously to convince us that the individual parts of reality as well as reality as a whole is a solid, real thing. Seeing emptiness takes the bite out of suffering and also dismantles the illusion of the self. 
 

Nothingness in Buddhism typically refers to a specific meditative absorption being the seventh in a series of eight meditative absorptions called jhana which are temporary states that reduce suffering and fabrication. The jhanas are seen as very central tools in Theravada Buddhism as they are wholesome states which provide a temporary refuge from the hindrances. 

Edited February 26 by BipolarGrowth

[BipolarGrowth]

23 hours ago, No_Manny said:

The more I learn about Theravada Buddhism, the more I want to believe it! I would like to hear objections to or problems/difficulties you have with Theravada Buddhism. Thanks in advance.

The main objection I have is that some in Theravada become fundamentalists who discount other forms of spiritual development as well as practices and teachings in later forms of Buddhism. Theravada is a great tool for a specific goal — ending suffering. 

[RedLine]

On 26/2/2024 at 1:51 AM, BipolarGrowth said:

The Four Noble Truths

1. There is suffering/dissatisfaction/stress/anxiety/lack of fulfillment inherent within life/existence. 
2. The cause of this suffering is clinging which arises from desire. 
3. There is a way to end suffering.

4. The Noble Eightfold Path (worth looking up) is the way to end suffering. 

The three marks or characteristics of existence are 

1. anicca - impermanence (everything changes, nothing and no one lasts forever)

2. dukkha - suffering/dissatisfaction/etc.

3. ānatta - non substantiality of the self/non self/no self

There is a process through which ignorance leads to suffering called dependent origination (worth looking up). The lasting eradication of this ignorance is full awakening. 
 

Brahman/Atman is not the ultimate truth or realization to be had. 

Consciousness is not permanent, some ultimate truth, or your true self. 

Gods are lesser when compared to one who is fully awake. 

The cultivation of unwholesome thoughts and states lead to suffering and ignorance. The cultivation of wholesome thoughts and states support awakening. Wholesome = free from the five hindrances of greed, ill will, ignorance, sloth and torpor, and restlessness. 
 

Emptiness isn’t focused on as much in Theravada as it is in later forms of Buddhism, but it is the idea that nothing at all has inherent existence or exists on its own. There is no self nature to phenomena. Everything leans on other parts of reality in order to appear how it does to us. Consciousness doesn’t exist on its own for example. It arises with craving, clinging, ignorance, material form, feelings, mental formations, and perception. Looking into dependent origination is a good way to see more what is meant by the term emptiness. Put simply, the experiential world is a sort of magical illusion with many parts working together simultaneously to convince us that the individual parts of reality as well as reality as a whole is a solid, real thing. Seeing emptiness takes the bite out of suffering and also dismantles the illusion of the self. 
 

Nothingness in Buddhism typically refers to a specific meditative absorption being the seventh in a series of eight meditative absorptions called jhana which are temporary states that reduce suffering and fabrication. The jhanas are seen as very central tools in Theravada Buddhism as they are wholesome states which provide a temporary refuge from the hindrances. 

Do you agree with Brahman/Atman/Absolute/God is not the ultimate Truth, Nothing is ultimate truth and relative reality/dualities arise with craving? It is an ugly metaphysics but it seems it is the truth...

[James123]

16 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Do you agree with Brahman/Atman/Absolute/God is not the ultimate Truth, Nothing is ultimate truth and relative reality/dualities arise with craving?

God=Absolute=Ultimate Truth is Nothing. God is nothing, absolute is nothing, ultimate Truth is Nothing. 

[Starlight321]

Theravada schools often use either concentration meditation or mindfullness meditations (vipassana). As for myself as practitioner of the theravada path and vipassana I can say that this is a good method for seeing that states,feelings,sense objects are constantly changing and there is no inherent controller there. This technique is good to grind down karma although this methode and also path is slower as many other ones but yield more stable gains.

 

My critizism is that it is believed in a material world independent from ones own existence staying there when you're gone and that some of the deconstruction exersizes create a lens of there only being parts and thereby reducing everything to those. Also some people aren't aware that this is a lens and they can't switch to another one easily. They also discount other enlightened people as bot fully enlightened as long they're having sense desire and doing stuff in the world because according to the definition it is all ego and must fall away. 

 

 

Edited March 3 by Starlight321

[Starlight321]

On 26.2.2024 at 1:59 AM, BipolarGrowth said:

The main objection I have is that some in Theravada become fundamentalists who discount other forms of spiritual development as well as practices and teachings in later forms of Buddhism. Theravada is a great tool for a specific goal — ending suffering. 

I second this.

[RedLine]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

God=Absolute=Ultimate Truth is Nothing. God is nothing, absolute is nothing, ultimate Truth is Nothing. 

For Leo Gura and some others yes, for Buddhism, it is not.

[James123]

10 hours ago, RedLine said:

For Leo Gura and some others yes, for Buddhism, it is not.

For Buddisim returning back to the source is final step. Source is nothing.