There is only Me vs There is No self - are different sides of Subject/Object Duality

[Arthogaan]

When we perceive the world from the ego lense then the ego is a subject and the world is an object. 

When we transcend the ego depending on the technique, words, tradition, our conditioning we are either left with the feeling of 
1. I am Consciousness, and Everything is Consciousness, so I am Everything - everything becomes a subject and there are no objects left.
2. There is no Self, there is only reality happening. So everything becomes an object and subject disappears. 

So the whole discussion really just comes down to acknowledging both sides and dropping them both and being left in pure _____. 

[Water by the River]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:47 PM, Arthogaan said:

When we perceive the world from the ego lense then the ego is a subject and the world is an object. 

When we transcend the ego depending on the technique, words, tradition, our conditioning we are either left with the feeling of 
1. I am Consciousness, and Everything is Consciousness, so I am Everything - everything becomes a subject and there are no objects left.
2. There is no Self, there is only reality happening. So everything becomes an object and subject disappears. 

 

 

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:47 PM, Arthogaan said:

1. I am Consciousness, and Everything is Consciousness, so I am Everything - everything becomes a subject and there are no objects left

1. in Thisdells stage-system stage 3. Classic Nonduality with individuality/"I" still intact, although a bit emptied out. "I" "am" pure Consciousness/Everything/Reality/God/whatever.  The Godself. The I extended to cosmic proportions. Or I am God. Or infinite ET. Or whatever. Either way, often not for the faint-hearted.

Franks take on that:

 

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:47 PM, Arthogaan said:

2. There is no Self, there is only reality happening. So everything becomes an object and subject disappears.

2. is normally this here: Stage 4. A "murky" Individuality still left, making that stage still contradictory, and... still suffering with resistance to what is.

 

And stage 5 is the end of the game:

 

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:47 PM, Arthogaan said:

So the whole discussion really just comes down to acknowledging both sides and dropping them both and being left in pure _____. 

Yup. 

And since all of these stages can sound quite similiar, there are a lot of possibilities to... end up halfway up the mountain and declare it summit. And still suffer/resist what is, and declare that unavoidable.

Selling Water by the River

[Someone here]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:47 PM, Arthogaan said:

When we perceive the world from the ego lense then the ego is a subject and the world is an object. 

When we transcend the ego depending on the technique, words, tradition, our conditioning we are either left with the feeling of 
1. I am Consciousness, and Everything is Consciousness, so I am Everything - everything becomes a subject and there are no objects left.
2. There is no Self, there is only reality happening. So everything becomes an object and subject disappears. 

So the whole discussion really just comes down to acknowledging both sides and dropping them both and being left in pure _____. 

Excellent thanks 🙏

[Breakingthewall]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:47 PM, Arthogaan said:

So the whole discussion really just comes down to acknowledging both sides and dropping them both and being left in pure _____. 

It is different to see that reality is a bottomless hole than to be a bottomless hole. the second is total liberation. For me the game right now is to achieve that for a moment each day, and it is not something that is achieved easily, it is a kind of mental sport. something like floating in a viscous fluid that moves and having to put several pieces in perfect balance, then that's a key and the door opens. Done, you are the unlimited, eureka, completely free. but then the movement makes some pieces move, they fall and you're out. sometimes I throw them intentionally, because it's too strange to have nothing to hold on to, it's enough with some minutes of freedom, I miss the jail, that means that the self is still there. but then you want freedom again. This work takes effort, but in a given moment has to be done

Edited February 25, 2024 by Breakingthewall

[Arthogaan]

  On 2/25/2024 at 11:48 AM, Breakingthewall said:

It is different to see that reality is a bottomless hole than to be a bottomless hole. the second is total liberation. For me the game right now is to achieve that for a moment each day, and it is not something that is achieved easily, it is a kind of mental sport. something like floating in a viscous fluid that moves and having to put several pieces in perfect balance, then that's a key and the door opens. Done, you are the unlimited, eureka, completely free. but then the movement makes some pieces move, they fall and you're out. sometimes I throw them intentionally, because it's too strange to have nothing to hold on to, it's enough with some minutes of freedom, I miss the jail, that means that the self is still there. but then you want freedom again. This work takes effort, but in a given moment has to be done

This describes my latest experiences very well. Thanks.