SubQ ROA - anyone tried?

[bambi]

Why is no one talking about dissolving HCL (salt) forms of compounds like 5 MEO DMT-HCL into sterile water and injecting Subq? This seems like the most stable and effective way to take it on the surface. You can get small pens or insulin syringes that barely can be felt, and super quick and easy to make the injection?

[bambi]

@Leo Gura Have you ever looked into this? 5-MeO is fat soluble so subq seems like it would work? Also it would be a slower release as it absrbs into blood stream via capilleries. Injecting via insulin needle is super easy and clean

[What Am I]

This is the main ROA I've used many many times, and exactly how I use ketamine, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-MeO-MALT, and DMT. Most people are aware of IM (intramuscular) injections, but not many are aware you can get essentially identical effects using SC (subcutaneous) injections. It's simple, painless, precise, and practically infallible (no misfires). The ROA typically has a high bioavailability, so you also need less of whatever drug you use compared to most other ROAs.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[bambi]

@What Am I exactly most studies talk of IM injections but are much more difficult. I cant get any data on SubQ absorption times or rates or dosages. Can you share? i.e. 5meodmt, what dose and how long does it take for peak effects and how long does it last, and can you compare to other methods?

From what I read in studies IM has much better subjective experience reports in terms of anixety, adverse effects etc etc

[Schizophonia]

It would be even more brutal than vaporied, and a subcutaneous injection is quite cumbersome, even intramuscularly. Imagine tripping on 5 Meo DMT with a needle in your leg or somewhere.

It must also be as pure as possible.

Edited April 3 by Schizophonia

[What Am I]

4 hours ago, bambi said:

@What Am I exactly most studies talk of IM injections but are much more difficult. I cant get any data on SubQ absorption times or rates or dosages. Can you share? i.e. 5meodmt, what dose and how long does it take for peak effects and how long does it last, and can you compare to other methods?

From what I read in studies IM has much better subjective experience reports in terms of anixety, adverse effects etc etc

When it comes to SubQ vs IM for the four substances I mentioned above, practically all factors of the ROAs are identical except for the location of injection (fat vs muscle). Meaning the dose, length of trip, time until the trip begins, subjective experience, etc are all the same. It's also painless when you inject into belly fat using a tiny 31 gauge needle like those used for insulin. When an option like this is available, I see no reason to puncture your muscles, which can damage them and create scar tissue over time.

For 5-MeO-DMT specifically, 5mg would be a solid trip, 10mg would be bordering on a breakthrough, and 15mg would almost certainly be a full breakthrough. From the time of injection, you have ~5 minutes until it begins, and it'll be peaking at ~10 minutes. Total trip time is about an hour. I've never boofed 5-MeO-DMT, but from the descriptions I've read it's very similar experientially to SubQ/IM. Meaning you're correct in thinking it's a much smoother and longer ride than a rapid ROA like vaping.

Let me know if you're curious about anything else. I'm happy to share.

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

It would be even more brutal than vaporied, and a subcutaneous injection is quite cumbersome, even intramuscularly. Imagine tripping on 5 Meo DMT with a needle in your leg or somewhere.

It must also be as pure as possible.

I recognize there's a strong (and possibly well deserved) stigma around injection of any recreational substance. I myself once had a similar mindset, and I only began injecting SubQ after a series of interesting coincidences led me there. As I laid out above though, the reality of the situation doesn't seem to match the dogma. That's not to say you can't mess yourself up in a number of ways, and I find it hard to recommend this to anyone who's not incredibly serious about spirituality, and by extension serious about proper psychedelic use. Maturity in your actions and decisions is paramount. Efforts towards sterility should be taken wherever possible. A relatively pure source material, the use of micron filters, and overall good hygiene during injection are all prerequisites.

I think I've seen Leo mention that plugging 5-MeO-DMT is the best ROA, and I'd generally agree. Injection literally only has a few tiny advantages, and the risks may not be worth it for 99% of people.

Edited April 3 by What Am I

[Schizophonia]

14 hours ago, What Am I said:

When it comes to SubQ vs IM for the four substances I mentioned above, practically all factors of the ROAs are identical except for the location of injection (fat vs muscle). Meaning the dose, length of trip, time until the trip begins, subjective experience, etc are all the same. It's also painless when you inject into belly fat using a tiny 31 gauge needle like those used for insulin. When an option like this is available, I see no reason to puncture your muscles, which can damage them and create scar tissue over time.

For 5-MeO-DMT specifically, 5mg would be a solid trip, 10mg would be bordering on a breakthrough, and 15mg would almost certainly be a full breakthrough. From the time of injection, you have ~5 minutes until it begins, and it'll be peaking at ~10 minutes. Total trip time is about an hour. I've never boofed 5-MeO-DMT, but from the descriptions I've read it's very similar experientially to SubQ/IM. Meaning you're correct in thinking it's a much smoother and longer ride than a rapid ROA like vaping.

Let me know if you're curious about anything else. I'm happy to share.

I recognize there's a strong (and possibly well deserved) stigma around injection of any recreational substance. I myself once had a similar mindset, and I only began injecting SubQ after a series of interesting coincidences led me there. As I laid out above though, the reality of the situation doesn't seem to match the dogma. That's not to say you can't mess yourself up in a number of ways, and I find it hard to recommend this to anyone who's not incredibly serious about spirituality, and by extension serious about proper psychedelic use. Maturity in your actions and decisions is paramount. Efforts towards sterility should be taken wherever possible. A relatively pure source material, the use of micron filters, and overall good hygiene during injection are all prerequisites.

I think I've seen Leo mention that plugging 5-MeO-DMT is the best ROA, and I'd generally agree. Injection literally only has a few tiny advantages, and the risks may not be worth it for 99% of people.

I don't want to demonize the injection, it's actually very clean, probably the least toxic ROA.
All I wanted to say is that it's annoying to find yourself with a syringe in your thigh or abdomen while under such a shocking experience as 5 MeO DMT, lol.
It's also dangerous if you inject ketamine, a benzo or something that can make you lose consciousness.

Edited April 4 by Schizophonia

[What Am I]

No doubt, it can definitely be dangerous.

[bambi]

Im sorry @Schizophonia but you are spreading fear and misinformation, there are injection pens and insulin needles that are not cumbersome at all to inject, they are completely painless (you cannot feel them), and take under 10 seconds to adminster with almost 0 side effects.

Rectal adminstration is around 5-10x more messy and less effecient then a small SubQ injection. I have done over 2-300 subq injections with other compounds and thats the reason I made this post, they are completely effortless, clean and easy, with good bio availbility and absorption, and was suprised to see no one using it.

Further if you read the studies on 5MEODMT they all recommend IM injection (this is more invasive, hence I asked Subq) . Injections according to the studies gives the most consistent results with the least psychological trauma - it is the superior adminstration method. All studies use IM and I was curious for the SubQ

@What Am I I really appreciate your post, will read and respond

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, bambi said:

Im sorry @Schizophonia but you are spreading fear and misinformation, there are injection pens and insulin needles that are not cumbersome at all to inject, they are completely painless (you cannot feel them), and take under 10 seconds to adminster with almost 0 side effects.

Rectal adminstration is around 5-10x more messy and less effecient then a small SubQ injection. I have done over 2-300 subq injections with other compounds and thats the reason I made this post, they are completely effortless, clean and easy, with good bio availbility and absorption, and was suprised to see no one using it.

Further if you read the studies on 5MEODMT they all recommend IM injection (this is more invasive, hence I asked Subq) . Injections according to the studies gives the most consistent results with the least psychological trauma - it is the superior adminstration method. All studies use IM and I was curious for the SubQ

@What Am I I really appreciate your post, will read and respond

I have never used an insulin pen.
I was obviously talking about syringes. 👍

Edited April 4 by Schizophonia

[Davino]

@bambi @bambi Could you explain how do you actually do it?? The how to manual for dummies

I'm very interested.

[What Am I]

The instructions in this video from 1:56 onward are basically identical to my process. The amount of liquid you'd draw into the syringe for your desired dose is dependent on the concentration of your vial. I use a concentration of 100mg per mL of water for 5-MeO-DMT, so 10mg would be 10 units on the syringe.

 

Edited April 4 by What Am I

[Leo Gura]

Not a good idea. If you do it wrong you will get problems in the injection site.

[Grateful Dead]

It seems unnecessary since you can vape 5-MeO easily and it’s almost as effective.

[bambi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not a good idea. If you do it wrong you will get problems in the injection site.

What is the basis for this though? There is almost 0 problems at the injection site with a 1/4 inch needle at 32 gauge or just use an inuslin needle/pen.

I cant imagine what you are thinking can go wrong: pinch skin, insert tiny needle (I use 1/4" inch - 6.5mm) at 32 gauge, you simply cannot even feel it. And administer within 10 seconds and remove needle.

[bambi]

7 minutes ago, Grateful Dead said:

It seems unnecessary since you can vape 5-MeO easily and it’s almost as effective.

As stated most if not all studes that compare ROA recommend injeciton for better trip quality (they only trial IM injection and IV, but as above Subq seems to work similiar). Vaping is intense, short duration, and has highest propensity for adverse effects

[bambi]

18 hours ago, Davino said:

@bambi @bambi Could you explain how do you actually do it?? The how to manual for dummies

I'm very interested.

You can just use an insulin needle/pen and follow their instruction, or watch injection for peptides on youtube. As @What Am I is saying you mix 100mg with 1ml of bacteriostatic water, would mean you are only injecting 0.1ml of liquid, this is a tiny tiny amount and would deliver 10mg of 5meo. 

For peptides I am often injection 1ml injections 

[Grateful Dead]

1 hour ago, bambi said:

As stated most if not all studes that compare ROA recommend injeciton for better trip quality (they only trial IM injection and IV, but as above Subq seems to work similiar). Vaping is intense, short duration, and has highest propensity for adverse effects

Can you share the study? I couldn't find it, only the one with N-N-DMT. You can control the duration and intensity through vaping, but I agree that there are side effects. It doesn't always feel healthy on the body, it's not optimal. Maybe I'll try injecting it when I have a clean HCL version.

[bambi]

1 hour ago, Grateful Dead said:

Can you share the study? I couldn't find it, only the one with N-N-DMT. You can control the duration and intensity through vaping, but I agree that there are side effects. It doesn't always feel healthy on the body, it's not optimal. Maybe I'll try injecting it when I have a clean HCL version.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2020-73978-005 this is one of the studies:

 

"Conclusion: Findings suggest that compared to vaporization, the IM route of administering 5-MeO-DMT is associated with lower and less doses, lower frequencies of reporting reactivation, a higher frequency of physical tension release, and a slower onset of acute effects. "

[What Am I]

Here's the guide that originally got me started creating sterile vials of psychedelics. It was posted by the site admin of the 5 Hive forum.

This is not an encouragement for anyone here to actually pursue the ROA, but if you truly feel called to it, this is basically how it's done. Just posting for the sake of shared knowledge. It's up to you to apply wisdom in your choices.

NOTE: Obviously the ROA mentioned here is intramuscular injection, but you can substitute it for subcutaneous injection. Either one works.

 

So You Want To Intramuscularly Administer 5-MeO-DMT HCl (or other salt)
by HumbleVoyager

Disclaimer: This information does not condone the activity it describes. Anything attempted is at one's own risk and knowledge that there are serious consequences if anything goes wrong in this process. Risks include, but are not limited to, infection, abscess, psychosis and injuries. This information is provided to help prevent problems that might arise if someone attempted this without appropriate information. Please PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Materials Required:
-1 vial of bacteriostatic water containing .9% benzyl alcohol - 30ml is a good standard size.
-Sterile 10ml syringes with luer lock attachment.
-Any number of single-use, brand-new insulin syringes. I suggest using 1cc (1 ml) 27 to 31 gauge (31 gauge is nice and EasyComfort brand is ideal), 1/2 inch needles. 1 inch needles if you have a lot of fat in your thigh.
-Empty sterile vial with rubber membrane on top (10ml)
-.22μm (.22 micrometer) Micron filters.
-25 gauge, 1.5 inch hypodermic needles (Note that this is just needles, not with a syringe. These attach to the 10ml syringe.)
-Cotton balls or alcohol wipes
-Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol)
-Milligram scale (capable of weighing to .001g)
-Parchment paper

1. Acquire 5-MeO-DMT in a salted form (5-MeO-DMT HCl, 5-MeO-DMT Fumarate, 5-MeO-DMT Oxalate, etc.).

2. Make a calculation as to how you'd like to dose. I'd say that 10mg/ml is a good concentration. That way if you wanted to dose 5mg, you'd draw up .5cc's in your syringe. When you do an intramuscular injection, you really want as little fluid in there as possible.

3. Boil some water and pour the water into a bowl that has your bacteriostatic water vial in it. Allow the bacteriostatic water jar get hot. A hotter solvent dissolves the compound more quickly and efficiently.

4. While your bacteriostatic water is heating up, weigh out your 5-MeO-DMT. For a 10ml vial, you will need exactly 100mg of 5-MeO-DMT. It is best to weigh this on a square of parchment paper so that you can use the paper to move the powder.

5. Get one of your 10ml syringes, affix a needle onto the end, and remove the plunger. Into the barrel of the syringe, place the total amount of 5-MeO-DMT HCl (in this case you would be putting 100mg 5-MeO-DMT HCl). Then put the plunger back into the syringe, but don't push it down yet. Keep it at the top of the barrel.

6. Get your vial of warm bacteriostatic water. Insert the needle into the vial and turn the vial upside down so the needle is pointing up and push the plunger all the way up to the 5-MeO-DMT powder so that the vial gets filled with air. This will keep a vacuum from forming when removing the bacteriostatic water. Be careful to not go so far as to push any of the 5-MeO-DMT into the vial (this shouldn't be a problem, since you are moving directly to step 5).

5. Begin pulling the syringe back (it should actually be moving back on its own accord because you have created positive pressure in the bac water vial) and draw up 10ml or 10cc's of saline solution into the syringe. Make sure it fills up completely. Once you have 10ml of water in your syringe, remove the needle from the vial but draw up an extra 1cc of air into your vial.

6. Shake/rotate that syringe until the 5-MeO-DMT HCl has completely dissolved. It should just look like clear water when it is completely dissolved.

7. Hold the syringe with the needle facing up. Cap and remove the needle. Set it aside.

8. Screw on the micron filter and then screw on the needle to the output port of the filter.

9. Insert an extra needle into the side of the rubber top of the sterile vial without a syringe. This is to let air come out when you are adding the 5-MeO-DMT solution.

10. Insert the needle that is attached to the micron filter and syringe into your sterile, empty vial and depress the plunger. This will be a bit difficult to do and will require some strength. Be patient and let it go at its own pace.

11. Now your vial is a sterile, filtered solution ready for injections. Label the vial with the substance it contains AND THE CONCENTRATION. For example, this vial would read: 5-MeO-DMT HCl - 10mg/ml

12. Note: ALWAYS use a NEW NEEDLE. NEVER REUSE NEEDLES. You don't want to contaminate the sterile environment in that vial.

13. Now it's time to dose yourself. First, set up a clean, safe environment. Sterilize any surfaces you will be keeping your vial, syringes, and alcohol wipes. I have used a brand new cookie sheet for this purpose and have rubbed the whole thing down with rubbing alcohol to kill any bacteria. Set up any playlist you'd like for the experience at this point.

14. Wash your hands THOROUGHLY. You don't want any bacteria getting anywhere near the inside of your muscle.

15. This is best done with shorts of some kind or naked, because you will need access to your thigh. You can also inject into your deltoid muscle but that can be more painful and is hard to do on yourself. I will just talk about injecting into the thigh.

16. Take a good look at your thigh. You will want to divide it into four equal quadrants. Your injection should happen in the bottom-right quadrant for your right thigh or the bottom-left quadrant for your left thigh. If necessary, draw the quadrant lines.

17. Once you have determined where your injection site will be, sterilize the thigh by rubbing it in an outward spiral motion with your alcohol wipe, from the injection site outward. Take your time and make sure you don't miss a spot.

18. Let the rubbing alcohol dry.

19. Draw up your dose from your vial. Remember to double-check your dose as you do this to make sure you have the correct amount.

20. Hold the syringe in one hand like a dart. With your free hand, spread the skin on your thigh apart so it's tight. This will eliminate or at least significantly minimize any pain when you insert the needle.

21. Insert the needle at a 90 degree angle to your skin. You want to do this in one continuous motion, it doesn't have to be fast. Once it's in, I would suggest not letting the syringe move around so much. You can let go of the skin that is stretched now that the needle is in place and use it to steady the syringe.

22. Pull back on the plunger slightly to make sure you haven't hit any veins or arteries.

23. If there is NO blood registering in the barrel, you are good to go. Inject slowly and steadily. If you feel any pain or severe stinging, slow down your rate of injection. Breathe deeply as you do this. Sometimes people hold their breath.

24. Once you are done injecting, cap your needle and put it on your tray or somewhere that it won't be stepped on or otherwise messed with.

25. Lay down and dream with Love.

Edited April 5 by What Am I