All events and people are mental constructs.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

2 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

I'm not sure what you are asking about.

Well, I am asking if you have ever experienced the opposite of infinite waters... which would be finite fire, I guess.

(Spoiler alert: Whatever answer you will come up with is going to be a conceptual story aka. belief. So actually there is no correct answer.)

 

Edited February 22 by Bazooka Jesus

[Arthogaan]

3 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Well, I am asking if you have ever experienced the opposite of infinite waters... which would be finite fire, I guess.

(Spoiler alert: Whatever answer you will come up with is going to be a conceptual story aka. belief. So actually there is no correct answer.)

 

Oh, then I think you wanted to ask @Yimpa. He was talking about some infinite waters. I am only in my Meh River.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

2 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

Oh, then I think you wanted to ask @Yimpa. He was talking about some infinite waters. I am only in my Meh River.

No, I wanted to ask you. Since you asked this question:

30 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

But do you agree that the notion of infinite waters does not line up with you current direct experience? Therefore it is a belief?

...which obviously begs the counter-question why you assume that anything you claim here is not a belief.

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

Okaaay, but the same could be said inside a nightly dream right? Everything is real inside the dream, but the fact remains that it is dreamed up/imagined by Mind/Absolute/Whatever. Jed Mckenna used to say that reality is real, but it's not TRUE. 

 

4 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

And calling it imaginary makes space for all the dualities. If this is a dream then it can be dreamed in a way that feels either real, or magical or materialistic or whatever the hell absolute dreams up

Let's see, for me on the one hand there is the conceptual mind that has practical utility, and that structures reality and classifies it and is essential to live as a human. What the conceptual mind says is not a lie, it is a conceptual construction. The point is that any conceptual construction limits, it doesn't matter what. If you want to open yourself to unlimited reality you must abandon them all and empty your mind. then real mysticism occurs, and this is another field entirely. They are not compatible, you must be able to put your mind in concept mode or empty mode. Afterwards, conceptualizing the mystical is possible to a certain extent and with many reservations. For me for now, if two days ago I had a total openness, now I have nothing to say about it, since now I don't have that openness. That whole thing about how others don't exist because you can only try your POV seems unnecessary and nonsense . I don't see any sense or need in it. From the conceptual mind it seems obvious to me that others exist and have their pov, I am another pov, another bubble of existence, not a god playing cute games to deceive myself for love, nor an envoy of the goddess Kali to sowing chaos, all of that seems like psychotic thoughts

Spirituality for me has two phases. awakening, which is leaving the linear mind that gives meaning, and mysticism, which is the real opening to the immeasurable and unthinkable. unthinkable is the key word. We cannot access it because we are operating from the two-dimensional level of thought, we must leave it completely and open ourselves to perception without dimension, or in infinite dimension. Everything about: I am this, I do this for this reason, reality is love, etc. etc. is within two-dimensional thinking. toxic to mysticism

Edited February 22 by Breakingthewall

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What the conceptual mind says is not a lie, it is a conceptual construction.

Concepts aka. thoughts are neither true nor untrue... they just ARE, like everything else in existence.

A chair is just as much of a valid apparition as a table. It would never occur to you to say "that table over there is true while that chair over here is untrue"; that would be an obviously absurd statement. So why should it be any less absurd to do the same thing with concepts?

Everything IS, and that's it!

[Breakingthewall]

40 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Concepts aka. thoughts are neither true nor untrue... they just ARE, like everything else in existence.

A chair is just as much of a valid apparition as a table. It would never occur to you to say "that table over there is true while that chair over here is untrue"; that would be an obviously absurd statement. So why should it be any less absurd to do the same thing with concepts?

Everything IS, and that's it!

Concepts have their place. I understand what you are saying, that there are no categories in reality, everything is real. and the next thing from this is to also remove the real label and make the void. The mind is afraid of being  Without categorizing and giving meaning. Categorizing and giving meaning is dreaming, stopping doing so is awakening. Of course right now I am categorizing and giving meaning, but not with the goal of describing reality but with the goal of stopping giving meaning. This is emptying the mind of structures, which is awakening, settling into existence. This is not enlightenment, but a state of purity like when you were 8 years old, but from here you can access the mystical with control over the fear of the adult and the capacity for total surrender impossible in the child.

Edited February 22 by Breakingthewall