Do we have free will?

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, Consept said:

If you like there is 'God's will' like a unified will, but there can not be both God's will and individual free will.

Exactly, because there's no individual.

[Ishanga]

On 3/27/2024 at 3:35 AM, Consept said:

Kind of, its like this, let's say theres a computer where you can input all the information about your genetics, your whole history, your previous 'choices', how your brain is wired etc. It wouldnt be a stretch for this computer to accurately predict what your next choice would be and then if it can predict that it could predict all your choices going forward and map out what your life would be. We're probably not that far from something like this even existing. 

Every choice that you make is made within the confines of you and all the factors that make you 'you'. For you to have 'free will' it would be a choice made completely independent of those factors that you have no control of. If you like there is 'God's will' like a unified will, but there can not be both God's will and individual free will. 

Everything Your saying here is based on the past data or information. now for physical existence to be here as it is materially, this is true, in the East they call this Karma, Cause and Effect, there is a residual affect from all the previous actions being performed, and in many cases allot of what is happening within Us is based off of this, but this is mostly concerned with the physical and emotional/mental aspect of what we are, now for all of this too happen something more fundamental has to be there, otherwise how does all this occur, how does the body come together, the brain form, the intellect develop, emotional and mental aspects? 

Existence goes from Gross (which is all of the above) to Subtle realms, we are not the Body or Mind, all of that is accumulated, the Body via Food or Earth, the Mind via 5 sense data input, the Intellect we are born with via evolution and the Grand Intelligence allowing all of this too happen, this is super important as we always miss this part, what is allowing all of this too happen? What we are is this Grand Intelligence but it is not based on Past or Memory, its pure and what some may call magical, this is where the Free Will resides and is for sure available to all of Us, we call those that have access to it Enlightened Beings, physically they are bound, but within their experience there is no Time and Space because they know they are not the Body or the Mind where all limits, bondages and Karma reside!

[Ishanga]

Free Will is NOT about controlling all situations in Your life, that is not possible, it would mean there is a God of the bible of sorts and that he is in control, everything is his will and we are just robots..

Free Will in basic terms is how You experience Life, what is the quality of that Experience, and via that you have more access to what it means to be Human Being, you can live via the Human side which is more about Survival and accumulating ppl, places and things, or the Being side which is Spirituality in its essence, Beingness is Being here Now, where Life is totally, abiding in Bliss and Aliveness, Intense experience of the Reality that we are in, access to all possibility and potentials on the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual levels that we have access to, you can live like a vicious animal or be a godly Saint that is the choice You have, that is Free Will, its not about physical actions and manipulations and control, that wouldn't work in a society and set up like it is here on this Earth!  If You have all the control, what about Me? 

[Ishanga]

Sadhguru basically explains it here, there is "Cosmic Will" the forces that allow physicality to exist, then there is Your Will, but he says to not live via the Will way, live via the Loving, Bliss way, to things because Your in Love with it, not because of Will necessarily, being Willing is helpful too though:)

 

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

What we are is this Grand Intelligence but it is not based on Past or Memory, its pure and what some may call magical, this is where the Free Will resides and is for sure available to all of Us

I agree and it's what I was alluding to when I said God's will. The question of free will implies there is an individual will that we each have separately, which of course as you say can't be possible, as the individual itself is an illusion. 

Gods will although we may have access to, its not individual. God's will for example might be to be loving so that would be applicable to all. This will also might not be the best choice for the individual but would be better for the whole. But yes I agree with you anyway I was just simplifying it down to whether we have individual free will 

[Adrian colby]

Free will after dis-objectification/ actualisation but not before. Before is identifying with what the one does not what the one is. One cannot be an attribute of oneself, only the self itself. I’d have to sit and contemplate how to extrapolate that out into a more clear explanation or description. 

[Ishanga]

2 hours ago, Consept said:

I agree and it's what I was alluding to when I said God's will. The question of free will implies there is an individual will that we each have separately, which of course as you say can't be possible, as the individual itself is an illusion. 

Gods will although we may have access to, its not individual. God's will for example might be to be loving so that would be applicable to all. This will also might not be the best choice for the individual but would be better for the whole. But yes I agree with you anyway I was just simplifying it down to whether we have individual free will 

I kinda look at it this way via my own experience and researching, we are individuals, with individual body/minds, but this is not fundamentally what we are.. I like how Sadhguru says it, he says there is not Your Life and My Life, its just a matter of how much Life You have captured and are Aware of, akin to a bubble with air inside of it, Karma is the lining of the buddle, it allows the bubble to be formed, if no bubble the air just melds with the rest of the air in the atmosphere, so we are like the bubble but with minds and bodies, movement, thoughts and conditioning/karma in place, so in that way we are individual and have free will to decide to be a doctor, teacher, unemployed, happy, sad, healthy, sick, rich or poor, but some karma controls your life situation around you, how you respond to this is your choice, that is where the Free Will is, how I choose to respond, some are living in the poorest of places but are still happy, some are living in the most wealth places and are depressed or anxious, so that is where individual consciousness comes into play, Awareness of what we are allows a high intensity of Consciousness to be in our perception, at the sametime we are One with everything, connected to everything but have individuality on some level, both Oneness/Inclusiveness and Individuality/Duality are at play here simultaneously..

Edited March 28 by Ishanga

[Ishanga]

Everything is on levels, there is the Absolute, non physical reality some call Brahman, God, Grand Intelligence, its beyond subtly, what was there before the big bang (if that even happened at all), then things get more gross and come into existence, from Silence to Sound and everything in between, there not just Absolute and that's it, but Absolute is the foundation of it all, but we do have Creation, planets, Us and Earth as we perceive it, I think too many think one way or the other way to absolutely, one has to see it all, and how it all interplays with one another! 

[Cosmin Visan]

Of course we have free will.

[Consept]

On 31/03/2024 at 11:08 AM, Cosmin Visan said:

Of course we have free will.

phew glad we sorted that out 

[Cosmin Visan]

On 01.04.2024 at 3:00 PM, Consept said:

phew glad we sorted that out 

Yes, is trivial. Without free will everything would be chaos. You would never be able to say things like 1+1=2. You would say random things like 1+1=3, 1+1=475789, 1+1=-^<_<>/_<&, because your reason would simply be the effect of random events outside of yourself.

Edited April 2 by Cosmin Visan

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Cosmin Visan said:

Yes, is trivial. Without free will everything would be chaos. You would never be able to say things like 1+1=2. You would say random things like 1+1=3, 1+1=475789, 1+1=-^<_<>/_<&, because your reason would simply be the effect of random events outside of yourself.

1+1=2 would be an example of no free will, as in something outside you is fact and you have no will over it 

 

[Cosmin Visan]

Lol, you didnt understand anything from what I said.

[Consept]

4 hours ago, Cosmin Visan said:

Lol, you didnt understand anything from what I said.

Youre obviously much more intelligent than me and I'm amazed at your ability to sum up the whole free will argument in less than 3 lines. But try again with your explanation. So far what ive understood is that 1+1=2 and not something else which would be chaotic, therefore there is free will, is that right?

[Cosmin Visan]

Not 1+1=2 per se, but your ability to grasp the truth. This means that reason is not influenced by random events outside of it. Therefore it is free from their influence.

[sholomar]

Love this video... wasn't sure where it would fit best.  Regardless of whether there's free will or not there seems to be 4 things that make for successful outcomes... 

The best performing strategies shared 4 qualities:
- They are all nice (not the first to defect)
- Forgiving (retaliates but doesn't hold a grudge) .. this conclusion actually came as a shock to the researchers
- Being retaliatory (when your opponent attacks, strike back immediately, don't be a pushover)
- Being clear (can't establish a pattern of trust with a program that has seemingly no rules/reason behind their behavior)
 

 

It's best to assume you have free will, even if you don't, because defeatism can lead down a rather black pilled path that spirals downward.  That said, I don't believe there is a whole lot of free will as a species... we are products of our DNA, enviornment, and upbringing. Even my knowing all this intellectual stuff about all these topics is because I had the internet. If the internet didn't exist, I'd be totally different.  Unfortunately the more knowledge one gains the more black pilled the world seems... ignorance (taking the blue pill) truly is bliss.  Even if you make a perfect human paradise, you can't change the basic laws of nature that drive evolution.  The Lion will continue to eat the baby gazelle... this is why the solution is not more knowledge, analysis paralysis, but getting off social media and living, being, with a proper mindset.. the subsconscious mind can be reprogrammed. Leo's 65 principles for a good life video... screens are the poison, social media is the poison, hours on the internet are the poison, should statements about how reality "should" be are the poison.

 

 

I have this video on my homepage to remind me. Most of this guy's content is hit or miss, but this video is golden.

 

Edited April 18 by sholomar

[CoolDreamThanks]

I think if you operate whilst identified with the mind then you are playing out a pre-written script, but if you constantly choose inner silence, then your destiny changes. 

[ZenAlex]

You have the freedom to act upon your will, but your will is not chosen by you.

It's exactly the same as an AI robot being aware of their programming but still being governed by it nonetheless.

Everything you think, feel, desire, is chosen for you by your body/brain. Everything that goes into determining what you will do is not of your choosing. There is no escaping it. 

 

Self creates an illusion that you are in control, but in reality it's just natural processes unfolding on their own, there is no one in control, in a manner of speaking.

 

Edited April 18 by ZenAlex

[ryoko]

On 3/28/2024 at 6:48 PM, Ishanga said:

Sadhguru basically explains it here, there is "Cosmic Will" the forces that allow physicality to exist, then there is Your Will, but he says to not live via the Will way, live via the Loving, Bliss way, to things because Your in Love with it, not because of Will necessarily, being Willing is helpful too though:)

 

It's interesting to see how everyone have different meanings to the word free will.. Don't listen to Sadhguru too much. He has no intention of making you free. He have an agenda. He is just fulfilling that. Infact he tramples on others' freedom too much, by means of manipulation, social engineering.