Dealing with feelings of being a loser..

[Consept]

Hey people, would appreciate some advice here -

So I'm not saying I feel like a loser overall in life, it's more like I'll try and do something and feel like I've failed and that I'm just inherently mediocre at that thing. 

So for example I've recently started playing football (refuse to call it soccer lol) again, which I played all through my childhood and teenage years up until when I was in my late 20s just because of injuries (achillies). After almost 10 years out I decided to play again, it took me a while but I got back to at least an OK level even though I turned 39 last month. We've recently set up a little team and play in a local league, the first game was last night. 

Now I felt I didn't play that well, no one told me this but I just felt I could've done better. The feeling I got, I can only describe as frustration, a but of self-loathing and this thought of, 'am I just not good at anything?'. I get hit with a kind of fearful feeling as well. I always end up playing again and usually I have a better game and I'm OK but I really want to investigate these feelings I have because it's such a strong feeling. 

I get these feelings in lots of different realms as I do try a lot of things. Another one is with dating, like sometimes it can really hit me hard if I had a bad  night talking to women or a date doesn't go that well. I don't know if it's a kind of perfectionism, I'm generally laid back and even these feelings I don't really tell people about, so most likely people don't think I'm easily bothered. 

Anyway can anyone relate or have advice on this?

[Eddie A]

@Consept

"I can understand where you're coming from. It seems like you're doing better in life than me, but please don't take it the wrong way. I believe it's natural for us to strive for excellence in everything we do. However, I've noticed that sometimes, I don't think about how well I'm doing in life. It's similar to what you're describing.

I have a few beliefs that help me in such situations. Firstly, I believe that everything happens for a reason and is God's will. Secondly, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Lastly, there are no mistakes in the universe. Have you ever seen a grain of sand out of place or a misshapen cloud? -Alan Watts paraphrasing.

But, please remember that these are just my beliefs and not objective facts. So, take everything I say with a grain of salt."

[Princess Arabia]

My advice probably won't do any good because it's a bit woo woo, even though it's the case and it's all there is to it.

You have identified with the mind. You are attached to your thoughts. The mind is the biggest bully and it will put you down like there is no tomorrow. It's the source of 99.99% of all the people on here who ask for advice similar to yours. Who don't feel worthy, like you're not good enough, like you don't matter, like you're......I mean the list is endless.

You have succumbed to them and believed in them. If I was to tell you the same things your mind tells you, you wouldn't like me too much but you listen to the mind and honor it.

They are not true. Change the way you see yourself, change the way you view your losses, don't take them personal. Say I will do better next time, practice makes perfect, oh well, it's only a game. Whatever you have to tell yourself, consciously without listening to the mind. See yourself how you would like to see yourself and not what the mind says. You are only feeling those feelings because of thoughts that preceded them. 

Test it out if you don't believe me. Next time something similar happens, be conscious, change your thoughts to a more empowering one, one of love and purity and see how your feelings change.

 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

@Princess Arabia

Ding ding ding, spot on.

@Consept

The point of playing the game is not to win it... the point is to enjoy playing it. If you lose, then by all means, curse and swear and throw a tantrum, but enjoy doing so. Otherwise, why play at all?

[mmKay]

The core of the issues you've described in the body of the thread is a problem of perspective and wrong expectations.

Why are you supposed to perform decently without rigorous training? Unless you're a specially genetically gifted snowflake, the person with more practice time and better shape will outperform you. Period. You're taking it personally.

In dating it's the same story, the perspective and expectation. Some people lack chemistry. Keep that context .

Maybe you've been socially not on your best game for some time now and and your rizz is not sharp. Why would girls fall for you? They don't owe anything to you.

 

Now given what you've just shared , plus the title of the thread, it seems there are further feelings of shame , disappoinntment and maybe pettiness behind the courtains, that fuel these wrong expectations, while these expectations fuel your negative emotions.

 

Feel free to share more if you feel this resonated with you

 

Edited February 21 by mmKay

[Consept]

5 hours ago, Eddie A said:

Firstly, I believe that everything happens for a reason and is God's will. Secondly, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Lastly, there are no mistakes in the universe. Have you ever seen a grain of sand out of place or a misshapen cloud? -Alan Watts paraphrasing.

Yeah I really like this, thanks for your reply. I do normally kinda have this gods will mentality or at least I'm trying to cultivate it. Thanks for the reminder. 

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

They are not true. Change the way you see yourself, change the way you view your losses, don't take them personal. Say I will do better next time, practice makes perfect, oh well, it's only a game. Whatever you have to tell yourself, consciously without listening to the mind. See yourself how you would like to see yourself and not what the mind says. You are only feeling those feelings because of thoughts that preceded them. 

Yeah good points, thanks. I've done cbt before and it's similar to what you describe. The thing is we didn't even lose the game it was a draw, not that it's important, but it's more my mind kinda beating up for not performing. 

To add context I used to be very anxious when I was younger, I had ocd so I was very within myself. Even so I was still pretty good athletically but I put so much pressure on myself to perform that I couldn't perform or I'd be really hard on myself, my mind basically bullied. I have made huge strides since then, in fact this little soccer team, I'm the captain and I put it together, which is something I would've never done when I was younger. For the most part I enjoy it immensely but there seems to be this lingering fear or thoughts that creep in every now and then, they don't last long but I do notice them and it feels pretty bad. 

57 minutes ago, mmKay said:

Why are you supposed to perform decently without rigorous training? Unless you're a specially genetically gifted snowflake, the person with more practice time and better shape will outperform you. Period. You're taking it personally.

Thanks for the reply. Well I know what I'm capable of, so one week I could perform amazing and the next week I'm terrible, both of these assessments are in my mind and to do with how I feel. People in the game might say I was great when I didn't feel I was or even that I played bad when I felt I played good. So this isnt so much about me expecting to be good without training, its more a sports psychology issue. 

 

1 hour ago, mmKay said:

Now given what you've just shared , plus the title of the thread, it seems there are further feelings of shame , disappoinntment and maybe pettiness behind the courtains, that fuel these wrong expectations, while these expectations fuel your negative emotions.

I added a bit more context in terms of when I was younger above. I guess it was more putting ridiculous expectations on myself. By the way i realise its a bit crazy a grown man putting such inprtance on football, i dont really but it does bring up a lot of feelings sometimes. But anyway when I was young I was basically in the pipeline to potentially go pro or get signed by a pro club at youth level, some of my school team mates did actually get signed and went on to be pros. So we would have scouts for Premier league clubs at some of our games. The amount of pressure I felt was insane, if I heard about the my mind would just go into overdrive, I already had ocd so it would just go round and round and I couldn't enjoy the game and as such would play really bad. 

It's a lot more cathartic now as I've got a handle on my ocd and I can enjoy it for the most part, but there must be some old remnants of that mindset from when I was young. I also didn't really have a parent coming to games and talking me through these feelings so I was just doing it myself mostly so that probably didn't help as well. 

[Princess Arabia]

@Consept You said, "to add context". This is how we create our story. You had to add the context to match up with your current life to make it make sense why you're feeling the way you do. When I say, I see how I'm creating this character, (which I've said in a previous post), this is what I'm talking about. And you will keep adding on more context after context to build more structures and more context and weave that storyline some more. 

This is how I observe myself doing the same thing, by hearing others tell their stories. It wasn't enough to view it as what happened, it needed a storyline to make it make sense. Geesh, the egoic mind is deeply embed and it gets deeper and deeper. What will happen 10yrs from now, is something will happen in your life and you will tell the story of how you lost or drew a football game and felt bad about it and blah, blah and that's why you're the way you are and thats why I did what I did, just like you're saying about being anxious and ocd. I'm not undermining your situation, just bringing to your awareness how we build our characters and are believing in them. I'm sorry,  but I've heard and seen too much to not notice these things anymore. We live in the past and future never in the present. That's what creates suffering, along with identifying with personhood. 

Edited February 21 by Princess Arabia

[mmKay]

In that case the expectation causing you to feel like a looser is believing you should perform at your peak everytime you play, which is unrealistic for numerous circumstances , and when expectations and reallity don't match , you blame it on your incompetence

Let me know if that sounds more accurate 

Edited February 21 by mmKay

[Razard86]

8 hours ago, Consept said:

Hey people, would appreciate some advice here -

So I'm not saying I feel like a loser overall in life, it's more like I'll try and do something and feel like I've failed and that I'm just inherently mediocre at that thing. 

So for example I've recently started playing football (refuse to call it soccer lol) again, which I played all through my childhood and teenage years up until when I was in my late 20s just because of injuries (achillies). After almost 10 years out I decided to play again, it took me a while but I got back to at least an OK level even though I turned 39 last month. We've recently set up a little team and play in a local league, the first game was last night. 

Now I felt I didn't play that well, no one told me this but I just felt I could've done better. The feeling I got, I can only describe as frustration, a but of self-loathing and this thought of, 'am I just not good at anything?'. I get hit with a kind of fearful feeling as well. I always end up playing again and usually I have a better game and I'm OK but I really want to investigate these feelings I have because it's such a strong feeling. 

I get these feelings in lots of different realms as I do try a lot of things. Another one is with dating, like sometimes it can really hit me hard if I had a bad  night talking to women or a date doesn't go that well. I don't know if it's a kind of perfectionism, I'm generally laid back and even these feelings I don't really tell people about, so most likely people don't think I'm easily bothered. 

Anyway can anyone relate or have advice on this?

Interesting, I would say your sensitivity to your emotions is high which means you are good at catching your ego's responses. You asked is it perfectionism and it is, and its also completely normal. Everyone wants things to naturally go their way and we all have to learn over time that the only thing we control is preparation and effort. You could train all day long for a month, step on the pitch, and trip and roll your ankle on the first attempt to do something. 

A healthy way to deal with this is to always reframe every situation around effort. Was your effort there? Did you do everything within your power to prepare and did you show up and give full effort? If you did there is nothing more you could have done. If you didn't just aim to do that next time. That's all there is to it. 

Edited February 21 by Razard86

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is how I observe myself doing the same thing, by hearing others tell their stories. It wasn't enough to view it as what happened, it needed a storyline to make it make sense. Geesh, the egoic mind is deeply embed and it gets deeper and deeper. What will happen 10yrs from now, is something will happen in your life and you will tell the story of how you lost or drew a football game and felt bad about it and blah, blah and that's why you're the way you are and thats why I did what I did, just like you're saying about being anxious and ocd.

I appreciate the perspective, but I dont think its as far as what you say. As in I dont believe im lost in stories or constantly think about the past, I say this because it is something I did for a long time and have worked hard, therapy wise to overcome it. In fact, the context i added, i havent really thought about for a long time its only because im investigating these feelings that are coming up and so looking at where they may stem from. Same with the OCD, I now work with a charity to help others with OCD, theyve even asked me to work on their helpline, but im slightly reluctant because I find it increasingly difficult to relate to the mindset i had before. I do get where youre coming from though and i think its an important message. 

55 minutes ago, mmKay said:

In that case the expectation causing you to feel like a looser is believing you should perform at your peak everytime you play, which is unrealistic for numerous circumstances , and when expectations and reallity don't match , you blame it on your incompetence

Let me know if that sounds more accurate 

Yes I think this is more accurate, so I also noticed the converse, if I have a good game I feel amazing and I have to make an effort not to dwell on it and constantly think of it haha. Its so weird how the ego works, it takes credit when something goes well but then beats you up when it goes wrong. 

But i agree with you, a lot is the expectation to perform which is only put on by myself as there are obviously no scouts or managers watching anymore. 

23 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Interesting, I would say your sensitivity to your emotions is high which means you are good at catching your ego's responses. You asked is it perfectionism and it is, and its also completely normal. Everyone wants things to naturally go their way and we all have to learn over time that the only thing we control is preparation and effort. You could train all day long for a month, step on the pitch, and trip and roll your ankle on the first attempt to do something. 

A healthy way to deal with this is to always reframe every situation around effort. Was your effort there? Did you do everything within your power to prepare and did you show up and give full effort? If you did there is nothing more you could have done. If you didn't just aim to do that next time. That's all there is to it. 

This is a good way of looking at it, you can only control your effort. It is hard to let go of the 'ah i shouldve done this' feeling or 'i really fucked up' embarrassment, but i guess its just practice. 

I have experimented a bit with what you say though, so i noticed that when i feel like im not playing well, i tend to not want the ball and shy away from it, one game i said to myself 'no matter how youre playing, always show for the ball'. I think this is similar to what youre saying and something i just have to work at. Thanks for your input 

[Razard86]

26 minutes ago, Consept said:

I appreciate the perspective, but I dont think its as far as what you say. As in I dont believe im lost in stories or constantly think about the past, I say this because it is something I did for a long time and have worked hard, therapy wise to overcome it. In fact, the context i added, i havent really thought about for a long time its only because im investigating these feelings that are coming up and so looking at where they may stem from. Same with the OCD, I now work with a charity to help others with OCD, theyve even asked me to work on their helpline, but im slightly reluctant because I find it increasingly difficult to relate to the mindset i had before. I do get where youre coming from though and i think its an important message. 

Yes I think this is more accurate, so I also noticed the converse, if I have a good game I feel amazing and I have to make an effort not to dwell on it and constantly think of it haha. Its so weird how the ego works, it takes credit when something goes well but then beats you up when it goes wrong. 

But i agree with you, a lot is the expectation to perform which is only put on by myself as there are obviously no scouts or managers watching anymore. 

This is a good way of looking at it, you can only control your effort. It is hard to let go of the 'ah i shouldve done this' feeling or 'i really fucked up' embarrassment, but i guess its just practice. 

I have experimented a bit with what you say though, so i noticed that when i feel like im not playing well, i tend to not want the ball and shy away from it, one game i said to myself 'no matter how youre playing, always show for the ball'. I think this is similar to what youre saying and something i just have to work at. Thanks for your input 

I love athletes, so I love that you are sharing your inner mindset. Study other athletes. For example Phil Jacksons says Kobe Bryant worked harder than Michael Jordan.

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/phil-jackson-kobe-worked-harder-in-training-than-mj/#:~:text=(CBS) In an interesting tidbit,perhaps the sport's most relentless

But despite this Michael Jordan still accomplished more than Kobe Bryant in the game of basketball. Kobe got injured more than Michael Jordan, he took longer to learn how to be a leader and connect to his teammates because he entered the NBA from high school and there was an age gap, he also wasn't as physically gifted as Michael Jordan , Jordan could jump higher, had bigger hands, and was more durable (less injuries) than Kobe.

So notice even though Kobe did everything he could, he couldn't control the outcomes he had.

When Kobe was in the last year of his playing career he finally realized that he never had complete control over outcomes. When asked how he wanted to be remembered he said "To think of me as a person that's overachieved, that would mean a lot to me. That means I put a lot of work in and squeezed every ounce of juice out of this orange that I could." Kobe Bryant

 

[mmKay]

2 hours ago, Consept said:

I also noticed the converse, if I have a good game I feel amazing and I have to make an effort not to dwell on it and constantly think of it haha. Its so weird how the ego works, it takes credit when something goes well but then beats you up when it goes wrong. 

It's more accurrate to talk about " mind " instead of " ego " when trying to understand these topics. It just makes it unnecesary unclear. The psychological definion of what you're calling " ego " is your web of beliefs, asumptions and unconsciously held definitions of concepts. But the proper definition of " ego " is your state of consciousness, the " egoic state of consciosness",  which is a different, metaphysical topic.

If you keep looking into it, you may notice the relativity of concepts like " good " or " wrong" . In your case, your feelings are dependent on your definition of "good" and " wrong". " Reframing" is one of the core concepts of Neuro Linguistic Programming. The way you would apply it here is by consciously defining what a "good game" means for you, rather than it being vaguely defined perhaps  as " I didnt smash and humiliate others by outperforming them", people cheering me on, etc.
You could try to define it as " I showed up,  tried my best during as long as I could, I enjoyed myself and my team, and I enjoyed the competition and the workout". Or whatever you resonate with more.

So basically, you have a vague unconscious definition of what is a succesfull game is for you, and if the conditions of this definitions aren't met, you automatically call yourself / feel like a loser. It's possible for you to never feel like a loser again, or at least infinitely less often, if you consciously adjust your definitions.

Edited February 21 by mmKay

[Consept]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

When Kobe was in the last year of his playing career he finally realized that he never had complete control over outcomes. When asked how he wanted to be remembered he said "To think of me as a person that's overachieved, that would mean a lot to me. That means I put a lot of work in and squeezed every ounce of juice out of this orange that I could." Kobe Bryant

Yeah thats very interesting and like you, athletes mindsets do fascinate me. I came across this quote from Jordan recently - "I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

Which makes you realise that to be successfully you really have to fail more than anyone else and so your relationship to failure has to be one where it will never stop you trying. Which is the case with Kobe as well, but its amazing that they can do it at such a high level on a big stage where so many eyes on you, the mindset you must have for that is incredible. Im struggling with just a local league where no ones watching lol. 

 

3 hours ago, mmKay said:

So basically, you have a vague unconscious definition of what is a succesfull game is for you, and if the conditions of this definitions aren't met, you automatically call yourself / feel like a loser. It's possible for you to never feel like a loser again, or at least infinitely less often, if you consciously adjust your definitions.

I get what your saying this is something i need to actively work on as well as not being afraid to make mistakes, it is hyper unrealistic to expect to have 10/10 game every time i play 

[Razard86]

10 minutes ago, Consept said:

Yeah thats very interesting and like you, athletes mindsets do fascinate me. I came across this quote from Jordan recently - "I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

Which makes you realise that to be successfully you really have to fail more than anyone else and so your relationship to failure has to be one where it will never stop you trying. Which is the case with Kobe as well, but its amazing that they can do it at such a high level on a big stage where so many eyes on you, the mindset you must have for that is incredible. Im struggling with just a local league where no ones watching lol. 

 

I get what your saying this is something i need to actively work on as well as not being afraid to make mistakes, it is hyper unrealistic to expect to have 10/10 game every time i play 

I have another one for you. Steph Curry is considered the greatest shooter of the basketball ever. He shoots 42.7% from three point range. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html

He literally misses more shots than he makes yet he keeps shooting. So what it shows you is failure is a part of sports, and sports teaches you to normalize failure to reach success. Wrap your mind around that one!! 

 

Edited February 21 by Razard86

[Princess Arabia]

12 minutes ago, Consept said:

Which makes you realise that to be successfully you really have to fail more than anyone else and so your relationship to failure has to be one where it will never stop you trying.

Learn how to choose your words wisely, especially when dealing with self-confidence and trying to improve how to manage how we feel. The word failure is disempowering. You said it in the end, "never stop trying".

Saying, "to be successful, you really have to keep trying and our relationship to effort has to be one where we will never stop trying", is so much more empowering to the mind. 

Look at your heading. That's why you feel like a "loser". It implies failure. You use that word twice in the same sentence here and you wonder why you feel like a loser. I'm not nick-picking here. Just pointing out some nuances that you might not be aware of. 

Another thing I notice you mentioning is how you have to work on this and work on that. That's also not registering positively in the mind. The mind doesn't like to "work", it's lazy; say improve on. Which one sounds better "self-improvement" or "self-work". There's a reason for that. This is why most of us find it hard to "do the work" because of how the mind interprets the word "work". Saying 'it's something i would like to get better at", relates better. @mmKayreally do make some good points too. I bet you it took a lot of training the mind to get to that level of thought process. It's just a matter of re-contextualizing. Starting to see things from a new perspective. 

[bebotalk]

20 hours ago, Consept said:

Hey people, would appreciate some advice here -

So I'm not saying I feel like a loser overall in life, it's more like I'll try and do something and feel like I've failed and that I'm just inherently mediocre at that thing. 

So for example I've recently started playing football (refuse to call it soccer lol) again, which I played all through my childhood and teenage years up until when I was in my late 20s just because of injuries (achillies). After almost 10 years out I decided to play again, it took me a while but I got back to at least an OK level even though I turned 39 last month. We've recently set up a little team and play in a local league, the first game was last night. 

Now I felt I didn't play that well, no one told me this but I just felt I could've done better. The feeling I got, I can only describe as frustration, a but of self-loathing and this thought of, 'am I just not good at anything?'. I get hit with a kind of fearful feeling as well. I always end up playing again and usually I have a better game and I'm OK but I really want to investigate these feelings I have because it's such a strong feeling. 

I get these feelings in lots of different realms as I do try a lot of things. Another one is with dating, like sometimes it can really hit me hard if I had a bad  night talking to women or a date doesn't go that well. I don't know if it's a kind of perfectionism, I'm generally laid back and even these feelings I don't really tell people about, so most likely people don't think I'm easily bothered. 

Anyway can anyone relate or have advice on this?

winner and loser are relative terms. and i mean that. people who are successful can and do have major flaws.