If Time Is An Illusion, How Is Awakening Real On An Existential Level.

[Princess Arabia]

How can there be a process to become Awakened or Enlightened if time doesn't exist. If time is an illusion, and we say we are doing things to awaken and doing Spiritual practices to awaken, aren't those futile. I'm not saying one shouldn't do practices or meditate or whatever it is that we do, but I'm just wondering how is it possible to achieve something as awakening if it isn't already the case.

I understand that Reality appears in a linear fashion in order for us to make sense of it; but it is only an appearance. We also say on an existential level there is no difference between anything and it's only the mind that makes these distinctions and it's all One. Where is the existential division between someone who is awake and someone who is not. Isn't that just mind and thought. I also put enlightenment in this category as it is said they are two separate things. 

Leo has said in his videos that there is no difference between me and a coffee table, so how is there a real difference here in awakening versus not being awake and isn't that also an appearance as opposed to what really is the case. Creation is already finished, and what is just is. We are only drawing from this Infinite field of Infinite possibilities experiences that are aligned with our states of being, so to become awake one has to be in alignment to have that experience of being awake; but since Enlightenment is not an experience how is it possible that some are and some aren't.

[Vincent S]

The Paradox of Reality is that Everything that could be, already Is. That means that whatever time was “created” for, already is accomplished at the same “time”.

Meaning that Awakening is something we already have done. But we go through how it is to “not” be.

Why some are and some aren’t?

Because if One is, the other isn’t. If some are, some are not. Duality doing its thing.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

Because if One is, the other isn’t. If some are, some are not. Duality doing its thing.

Ok, so since all dualities must collapse, then everyone is already Awake on an existential level.

[Someone here]

33 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Where is the existential division between someone who is awake and someone who is not.

There is a threshold of woke territory ..when you become fully conscious that you are absolutely alone in existence. 

There is no people who are awake  or not . Only you..either aware of what I said or not .

And time is a persistent illusion as per Einstein motto.

[Vincent S]

13 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Ok, so since all dualities must collapse, then everyone is already Awake on an existential level.

 

It depends if we are speaking on a subjective level or an objective level.

From a subjective perspective, or a relative point of view, if you have not fully awakened and merged Everything. Then there exist others who are not awake, to reflect back to you, what it is that you are missing.

From an objective and Absolute level, as you said, all the dualities have collapsed, Everything is One. And there is no separation between self and other. There is only what Is, neither asleep or awakened. Nothing to compare, because Everything is the same. Perspective vanishes, no world. 

Edited February 15 by Vincent S

[Davino]

It is a paradox. It doesn't make logical sense but it is so by experiential direct reality.

I would say there is superposition. You are not creating, conserving or destroying you are become aware of what is already the case.

For example, is there something that is always, absolutely always in your visual field, but you always, absolutely always miss?

Do this experiment, are you blind? Check in direct experience what could it be? You are seeing this letters aren't you?

The answer is... Your nose! 

Awakening is like that in a way. Always there but miss it. How many noses are there? Maybe infinite

That something is always the case doesn't mean you are conscious of it. That you have recognised it for what it is. It is an infinite nose and you can't find your head. Logic rationality and deduction are certainly very limiting lenses to approach Reality. 

Edited February 15 by Davino

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

 

It depends if we are speaking on a subjective level or an objective level.

From a subjective perspective, or a relative point of view, if you have not fully awakened and merged Everything. Then there exist others who are not awake, to reflect back to you, what it is that you are missing.

From an objective and Absolute level, as you said, all the dualities have collapsed, Everything is One. And there is no separation between self and other. There is only what Is, neither asleep or awakened. Nothing to compare, because Everything is the same. Perspective vanishes, no world. 

I see.

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Davino said:

That something is always the case doesn't mean you are conscious of it

So awakening is there for you, just have to become conscious of it and practices will aid in that recognition. Is that what you're saying.

[CoolDreamThanks]

Oh yes, I remember being confused on this as well. What is there to reach, isn't this just reality as it is? Just my real self right here right now without thoughts? The issue is that we are stuck in a specific identity which is literally not-Self, the opposite of Self, a duality, an illusion. So our experience currently is the opposite of what is Real. God is so powerful that he can even not be himself, in certain aspects, like not being Love and instead being separate, fearful and limited. Yes, time is an illusion, but now we have to use time to return to eternity. How do we do that, practically? We practice spending time in the place that is unchanging within us, the Peace of God, until it purifies us and we awaken from the dream to reality of ourselves. 

[Princess Arabia]

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

There is a threshold of woke territory ..when you become fully conscious that you are absolutely alone in existence.

Alone implies other. You can only be alone if there are others. 

Edited February 15 by Princess Arabia

[Davino]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

So awakening is there for you, just have to become conscious of it and practices will aid in that recognition. Is that what you're saying.

Exactly so

Awakening is You not there for you. There are videos of Gorillas looking themselves in the mirror and not recognising their reflection.

This phenomena that is going on is exactly the same but you haven't recognised it as your own reflection 🪞

 

[Oppositionless]

maybe awakening is the relative truth of becoming conscious of absolute truth. does that make sense?

I also am not sure what awakening is, past becoming aware that consciousness is all.  but according to Leo and others it goes deeper. so that means it’s a relative truth, It think? 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, CoolDreamThanks said:

Oh yes, I remember being confused on this as well. What is there to reach, isn't this just reality as it is? Just my real self right here right now without thoughts? The issue is that we are stuck in a specific identity which is literally not-Self, the opposite of Self, a duality, an illusion. So our experience currently is the opposite of what is Real. God is so powerful that he can even not be himself, in certain aspects, like not being Love and instead being separate, fearful and limited. Yes, time is an illusion, but now we have to use time to return to eternity. How do we do that, practically? We practice spending time in the place that is unchanging within us, the Peace of God, until it purifies us and we awaken from the dream to reality of ourselves. 

Ok, I see. At least you can see where my confusion lies. I guess my heading still stands as in we are all Awake; but because of the illusion of time, we are returning to that which is the case so we can awaken from the dream. 

[Davino]

Also be careful of trying to deduct your way into awakening or guessing.

It is helpful but limiting due to how counterintuitive this process is. Imagine you are in a foggy forest. You can barely see your next step, let alone 100m away. Step by step, moment to moment, breathe in to breath out, reality cracks open up and you see yourself everywhere and nowhere. If you just tuned in now this is the case. Focus on what is the case now, whatever that is and connect with it. You cannot guess wether there is a nose or not but you can look and see. In the same way, look as see here now, be with me in this moment 

[Davino]

Quote

It takes time to transcend time

 

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Davino said:

 

Hmmm, interesting.

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

maybe awakening is the relative truth of becoming conscious of absolute truth. does that make sense?

I also am not sure what awakening is, past becoming aware that consciousness is all.  but according to Leo and others it goes deeper. so that means it’s a relative truth, It think? 

Thanks for your input. 

[Breakingthewall]

If you want to awaken, or dissolve into existence, or open yourself to reality or whatever that is called, it has to be exactly now. There is no other moment, only now exists, and right now you must open your being, then there is no time. Then you close your mind, and reality as a linear process that unfolds returns to the foreground.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you want to awaken, or dissolve into existence, or open yourself to reality or whatever that is called, it has to be exactly now. There is no other moment, only now exists, and right now you must open your being, then there is no time

This sounds good and all, but doesn't compute. What exactly is the NOW. NOW as in not one minute from now, nor a nano second from the point of when the NOW started?

[Breakingthewall]

42 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This sounds good and all, but doesn't compute. What exactly is the NOW. NOW as in not one minute from now, nor a nano second from the point of when the NOW started?

Now it's what's left when you turn off your mind. Time is being created by the mind, the mind is all the time creating a timeline that goes from before to after. The act of weaving thoughts is something that happens sequentially and creates the sensation of time. you think one thing, then another, etc. Opening to the now is not stopping thinking, it is deactivating thoughts, then you stop following them and the timeline fades. There are levels of deactivation of thoughts, and what you want is to deactivate them completely for a while, for a moment at first, then for a longer time. How to do this is the question, since the self, which is made up of thoughts, is the one who wants to stop the thoughts. the door without a door, because whoever wants to go through the door is the door, a mess. 

For me at the beginning I had to use extreme violence: 5meo dmt. If not, impossible, because the line of thought goes deep and creates structures. It may seem silent but the structures continue if you believe in them. That's why even if you meditate and silence your mind, you are still limited. It is not a question of silence, but of deactivation. psychedelics help but do not guarantee it. It is something that I try every day, because it is a sensation of total liberation and life, it is the total end of the slightest shadow of dissatisfaction, it is complete plenitude, but achieving it is difficult and brief. 2 puffs of weed help a lot, more is a hindrance, and meditation in the sense of looking into the face of existence, making yourself totally aware of death, letting go of everything. Then the opening happens, and it's perfect. For now quite short, but yesterday for example I was alone in a park with my arms to the heaven and crying with all of my being absolute full, like I ve unlimited energy inside flowing through me, without a molecule of imperfection, perceiving the pure life. It's not a small achievement thinking that last year I was all time with shit in my mind. Not horrible shit, but always some. so I know that I'm in the good way , thats the real thing

Edited February 15 by Breakingthewall