The good reason to not do psychedelics anymore

[AerisVahnEphelia]

Let's imagine you are awakened via psychedelics.

I mean only for 'awakening'  / 'god realization'

It's not a topic against usage. It's a topic to speak on going beyond the usage of drugs.

For people not interested in it. That's fine.

Let's be practical for the interested:

what's in it then, after you meet god and yourself there is no need to go further.

You're not different from an alcoholic if that's for free 'pleasure'

 

If you are into it for relative reasons it's fine. ( But it might just be addiction disguised as path by the ego ) like all weed addicts. ( "It makes me sharp" etc.. )

Here is my very counter view : you are burning your receptors/brain. ( No need to go metaphysical on me. Your 'brain' is real in a certain way )

We can't measure it and might never do but still you can still feel apparent causality.

So here is my experience and why I feel I need to never do them again by myself, or at least never been looking for it. ( Lol well aight this was a joke )

So I feel like on the topic of safety.

Like all 'good things' you'll have a price to pay.

At the pure body level ( I surely agree it can be very good for mental and paradigm healing ) but let's talk pure physics.

You can argue it's not toxic. But then Xanax and alcohol aren't either.

You take Xanax for anxiety : you quit you more anxious.

Take psychedelics for X : you quit and it makes you more X

Maybe you don't agree but I barely believe in free heat.

We got no idea what is mitigated by serotonin 2A receptor (5-HT2AR).

The heart alright but how does it play on your health and vibration to deregulate it.

Psychedelics aren't toys and no play and not here for any enjoyment is my point.

I suspect like weed the come down is extremely delayed might even be months after your last intake.

Your brain truly quit weed only 3 months after the last intake. Before this, it's the first phase.

So psychedelics might also takes months to show you the real withdrawal. I suspect 6-8 months.

But mental healing can have occured and you'll be in a better place. But still I'm talking pure physics here.

So you shall not do psychedelics more than once a year and if you are enlightened unless you have some serious reasons like science it's not worth it to keep adding false sugar.

Your 'meditation' will be stronger and everything can be done through better means.

Don't get attached to the past tools evolve.

 

Edited February 10 by AerisVahnEphelia

[OBEler]

This is a bit confusing to read.

In the end you can talk about everything about safety concerns. Cars, smartphones plastic, VR. Everything has risks, you don't know the long-term consequences. You always can say that

Yes the best safety is to do as rarely as possible. But then you also will not have the results.

What withdrawal effects are you talking about. Never heard that and never read that someone got withdrawal effects from psychedelics. Don't make things up. LSD is on the market for 80 years, was heavily researched in 60s and 70s. if there would be withdrawal effects we would know already. I do psychedelics for 6 years. No withdrawal whatsoever, not even the tiniest bit. And I consumed over 10 different substances over 200 times into all kinds of holes in my body.

I think every two weeks is fine for most people.

Meditation can be very boring and you need a lot of discipline. Your gains are mostly lost if you stop meditation completely. Meditation cannot replace psychedelics 

 

Edited February 11 by OBEler

[Ishanga]

@AerisVahnEphelia

Interesting post, as someone that hasn't used hardcore psychedelics like many here, have used pot (hasn't everyone lol?) and had time slowed down and such things experienced, and kriya practice experiences bliss, peace, clarity on consistent basis, and reading ppl post of their experiences here and researching over the years in other places, it seems to me that certain psychedelics create certain experiences generally, the 5 meo dmt seems to make one feel like a God (omnipresent, omnipotent, completeness, great bliss/love), others bring about different disorientated experiences, seeing/experiencing shapes, seeing objects distorted, talking too spirits and a general feeling of peace, oneness or the opposite and such...

I think a newbie, someone not having done any research in any way into spirituality, this can be dangerous, it can freak them out, because everyone has a unconscious philosophy running in the background, it is fundamentally directing your life in certain directions, with this comes beliefs, conclusions, habits and tendencies in place, then the psychedelic experience comes and messes it all up in chaos..this is not so good for someone, at the least Leo advises to go slow and build up to correct doses for yourself and see what happens which is safe advice..

Without a proper Yoga/Eastern Spiritual practice in place already setting the stage and providing ingrained intent and stability within a person, then one should not do it without facing great consequences, and as you said do it infrequently, with a practice in place it can be done more frequently but not as a crutch or I need to feel better about myself/ world sort of approach, more strictly as I want to know something or experience a deeper realm/experience to get somewhere purpose behind it...

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@OBEler yeh you didn't heard about because they are not obvious and because the causality is hard when it's months away and can reduce your frequency for years.

If you 'become shitty' the year after and you are online 10h per days you didn't see that you reduced your life to apathy. It's easier to see the hangover of alcohol because it is very obvious..

But no hangover from psychedelics. Yeh that's a myth I can't believe in it. 

Just like weed has no withdrawal. But if you look you'll find tons of users reduced and destroyed for up to 3 years when they cease daily toking.

Lot of things are hard to measure it doesn't mean they aren't there.

Who has done a lot of psychedelics and didn't have a problem at the end.

Shulgin hearth problem

McKenna cancer

Steve Jobs cancer

That's for the known users.

Maybe it's not related. But maybe it is ?

Like if you are a bit materialistic: exciting your neurons and frequency might have consequences. You over heat a biological system that isn't supposed to function in those states.

It's hard to measure what is being deregulated by them. But it would be naive to think they are without consequences especially when there is casual usages.

 

Could just not be related. But to believe they have no consequences on health.. I've to get people back on the possible 'real'.

You can cop and tell me I'm an evil speculator but I've never met a drug without consequences so far.

And I m talking with all my experience with drugs and quitting them all.

The panacea yeh maybe in your dream. But you better think with some logical activity or you'll not get a long and optimized experience.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Ishanga very interested in that' if you have some informations on it and serious practice feel free to dm me or share your future topic on it. 

I still think psychedelics are fine.

But to me they shall be used as a sacrament and with huge respect.

might be fine with doing 10-20 trips in your life but beyond that you'll enter probably a troubling area. 

Hey that's up to people to choose just saying my jazz.

Edited February 11 by AerisVahnEphelia

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

@OBEler yeh you didn't heard about because they are not obvious and because the causality is hard when it's months away and can reduce your frequency for years.

If you 'become shitty' the year after and you are online 10h per days you didn't see that you reduced your life to apathy. It's easier to see the hangover of alcohol because it is very obvious..

But no hangover from psychedelics. Yeh that's a myth I can't believe in it. 

Just like weed has no withdrawal. But if you look you'll find tons of users reduced and destroyed for up to 3 years when they cease daily toking.

Lot of things are hard to measure it doesn't mean they aren't there.

Who has done a lot of psychedelics and didn't have a problem at the end.

Shulgin hearth problem

McKenna cancer

Steve Jobs cancer

That's for the known users.

Maybe it's not related. But maybe it is ?

Like if you are a bit materialistic: exciting your neurons and frequency might have consequences. You over heat a biological system that isn't supposed to function in those states.

It's hard to measure what is being deregulated by them. But it would be naive to think they are without consequences especially when there is casual usages.

 

Could just not be related. But to believe they have no consequences on health.. I've to get people back on the possible 'real'.

You can cop and tell me I'm an evil speculator but I've never met a drug without consequences so far.

And I m talking with all my experience with drugs and quitting them all.

The panacea yeh maybe in your dream. But you better think with some logical activity or you'll not get a long and optimized experience.

Leo the creator of this forum, he's not old by any means and is having "health" problems and no longer does video's even though he has over 1mill subscribers and had a passion for sharing, you have to wonder what all those trips did to him, I do, and I think it for sure effected him, he may never admit it...Just imagine thinking Your God, in Bliss Love Completeness mode a few hundred times over a few years, how do You go thru normal life afterwards without having to deal with that sort of intense experience?? I don't know if he has normal spiritual practice that he does on the regular, I hope he does...

[OBEler]

@AerisVahnEphelia ok I now understand better what you mean.

Yes you can recognize weed users even after quitting on their behavior. Neurotic, talking randomly, jumping from one topic quickly to another without being linked. It's disturbing to watch for non weed users like me.

Psychedelic users could therefore also experience some unusual traits. I would not call this as withdrawal symptoms.more like the experience you had shaped you. Like a war veteran. And of course there must be some changes in the brain too.it is more connected for sure. I think psychedelic users are more connected to their emotions 

Edited February 11 by OBEler

[AerisVahnEphelia]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Leo the creator of this forum, he's not old by any means and is having "health" problems and no longer does video's even though he has over 1mill subscribers and had a passion for sharing, you have to wonder what all those trips did to him, I do, and I think it for sure effected him, he may never admit it...Just imagine thinking Your God, in Bliss Love Completeness mode a few hundred times over a few years, how do You go thru normal life afterwards without having to deal with that sort of intense experience?? I don't know if he has normal spiritual practice that he does on the regular, I hope he does...

I know but I m not even saying if that's related. It's maybe related to something else.

 

It could be unrelated aswell and he did psychedelics because of it.

I really don't want to turn the topic on this.

 

Edited February 11 by AerisVahnEphelia

[AerisVahnEphelia]

9 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@AerisVahnEphelia ok I now understand better what you mean.

Yes you can recognize weed users even after quitting on their behavior. Neurotic, talking randomly, jumping from one topic quickly to another without being linked. It's disturbing to watch for non weed users like me.

Psychedelic users could therefore also experience some unusual traits. I would not call this as withdrawal symptoms.more like the experience you had shaped you. Like a war veteran. And of course there must be some changes in the brain too.it is more connected for sure. I think psychedelic users areore connected to their emotions 

Yes exactly, but it could also be more 'physical'.

But again it's hard to measure we lack data and decades of research.

I think everyone can heal from all drugs usages.

It might just takes time to regulate back from deregulation and few knows it can be counted in years.

Again I just speculate I m not here to preach that you shouldn't do it.

Make up your mind. 

Edited February 11 by AerisVahnEphelia

[OBEler]

12 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Leo the creator of this forum, he's not old by any means and is having "health" problems and no longer does video's even though he has over 1mill subscribers and had a passion for sharing, you have to wonder what all those trips did to him, I do, and I think it for sure effected him, he may never admit it...Just imagine thinking Your God, in Bliss Love Completeness mode a few hundred times over a few years, how do You go thru normal life afterwards without having to deal with that sort of intense experience?? I don't know if he has normal spiritual practice that he does on the regular, I hope he does...

I would stop making wild speculations, not talking about a specific person you don't know at all. And you don't know how Leos health was before shooting videos.he was overweight for long time and in bad health before.

There are many people who have bad health, with or without psychedelics.By the way, correlation is not causation. For example you can say you observe that many psychedelic users are depressed so you think psychedelics make you depressed. But it could be the other way around. People were depressed in the first place and now try psychedelics to cure them. They reduce the depression even but a bit of a depression stays.

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, OBEler said:

I would stop making wild speculations, not talking about a specific person you don't know at all. And you don't know how Leos health was before shooting videos.he was overweight for long time and in bad health before.

There are many people who have bad health, with or without psychedelics.By the way, correlation is not causation. For example you can say you observe that many psychedelic users are depressed so you think psychedelics make you depressed. But it could be the other way around. People were depressed in the first place and now try psychedelics to cure them. They reduce the depression even but a bit of a depression stays.

I think my post was justified because he was consistently making video's, and now has stopped for a few months, plus he did a few 30 day retreats contemplating but got bored so what did he do, take psycedelics...Like I've done with others, I do research, I researched Leo, and I just said it makes "One wonder", I'm not making outright claims that I know what is what with him, because I don't, but it does make one wonder, which is fine since he is basically a public figure in certain niche ways...

 

I would be easy for him to nip speculation in the butt, make a statement, as ppl here are wondering why he has stopped making vids, recently he said "health problems"..make a more specific one and that will stop it...

Edited February 11 by Ishanga

[OBEler]

@AerisVahnEphelia there was a ama reddit post of someone who took 2 years every day 200 Microgramm LSD.  He worked in a normal job. No one noticed he was high.

He quit because it was too expensive I think

He had not recognized any changes.

(I hope I will find this thread again)

Maybe we can collect here some anecdotes from long-term users/ heavy users.

 

 

[OBEler]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I think my post was justified because he was consistently making video's, and now has stopped for a few months, plus he did a few 30 day retreats contemplating but got bored so what did he do, take psycedelics...Like I've done with others, I do research, I researched Leo, and I just said it makes "One wonder", I'm not making outright claims that I know what is what with him, because I don't, but it does make one wonder, which is fine since he is basically a public figure in certain niche ways...

Leo made no secret why he needed a break ( burnout, stomach problems). Read his blog articles.But ok you can still wonder if you want

[Ishanga]

11 hours ago, OBEler said:

Leo made no secret why he needed a break ( burnout, stomach problems). Read his blog articles.But ok you can still wonder if you want

How does a man that claims certain states and knowing get burn out? Its just coming up with content and then creating video, editing, I know its not the easiest career, but its easier than what I do day in day out for sure...Just playing Devils Advocate here, I hope he is well and getting healthy, he for sure has contributed to the Spiritual Community no doubt with his sharings and forum creation here..

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

How does a man that claims certain states and knowing get burn out? Its just coming up with content and then creating video, editing, I know its not the easiest career, but its easier than what I do day in day out for sure...Just playing Devils Advocate here, I hope he is well and getting healthy, he for sure has contributed to the Spiritual Community no doubt with his sharings and forum creation here..

It may be easier on a certain level but if you look closely many YouTubeer quit completely because of burnout, even if their channel works great.

It's constant pressure 24/7. Maybe you can handle that better whatever you do. Are you at least a public figure?

To topic: it would be interesting to hear from long term users of psychedelics if they noticed any changes in a bad way.

Edited February 11 by OBEler

[Ishanga]

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

It may be easier on a certain level but if you look closely many YouTubeer quit completely because of burnout, even if their channel works great.

It's constant pressure 24/7. Maybe you can handle that better whatever you do. Are you at least a public figure?

To topic: it would be interesting to hear from long term users of psychedelics if they noticed any changes in a bad way.

"Pressure" is self created, it doesn't exist unless You create it, and he claims to be above all of these sorts of problems the rest of humanity suffers from, so its not an excuse, plus he is doing what he loves, creating his own creations and expressions, that is the point of it all, most of us are not doing this, we work jobs we don't want to do to pay bills and survive, so I don't believe in these sorts of excuses of pressure. What it is in simple terms is he is suffering his success, just like people suffer their failure, its no different, its a sign that he has not reach a level of Consciousness that is really high or useful to go to ones highest potential and possibility, what some call Enlightenment...

Sorry for getting off topic, will be my last response on this subject:)

[OBEler]

@Ishanga No He doesnt Claim that. Where does he write such things?

I think you have some phantasy about enlightened people. Even if you are high conscious you can suffer like every human from stress or whatever.

Yes high conscious people will probably not suffer from lower consciousness issues like obese and addiction. But they will not be immune against all kind of things like cancer, pollution of environment or if the body lacks energy.

Edited February 11 by OBEler

[Rigel]

17 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

You can argue it's not toxic. But then Xanax and alcohol aren't either.

Wait what? You might as well be drinking paint thinner. 

Ever heard the saying: "The dose makes the poison."? It's sort of half true but look at alcohol through that lens. You literally cannot feel anything from alcohol at a dose that would be non-toxic(like the tiny amounts found in some fermented foods). As soon as you get an effect you are well past the "definitely toxic" threshold.

That is not the case with mushrooms, cannabis, LSD, mescaline, & a slew of RC's.

I am not saying there can't be negative physiological outcomes with those in some ways but you are comparing the physical effects of a raindrop on your head with a 10 pound dumbbell dropped from a skyscraper on your head.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

1 hour ago, Rigel said:

Wait what? You might as well be drinking paint thinner. 

Ever heard the saying: "The dose makes the poison."? It's sort of half true but look at alcohol through that lens. You literally cannot feel anything from alcohol at a dose that would be non-toxic(like the tiny amounts found in some fermented foods). As soon as you get an effect you are well past the "definitely toxic" threshold.

That is not the case with mushrooms, cannabis, LSD, mescaline, & a slew of RC's.

I am not saying there can't be negative physiological outcomes with those in some ways but you are comparing the physical effects of a raindrop on your head with a 10 pound dumbbell dropped from a skyscraper on your head.

 

I'm saying: 'What happens really when you deregulate your serotonin system?' (You can talk about mimicking and whatever, but science is still SPECULATION; not reality.)

You might say, 'It doesn't affect my body', psychedelics don't hurt anyone, they don't do like MDMA blablabla or like alcohol blabla.

But I'm calling on that one, it's not because it's not 'in your face' or obvious that it isn't here in some manner, and like I said, for cannabis it takes 3 months for the THC stored in fat to truly get off your body. AND THEN you start having the real withdrawal phase (the second one after the acute).

As for psychedelics, it might also just change your heartbeat, and that in itself changes your whole system, your 'body speed' if you like. ( and what change does it create ? )

The cost of having free infinite meaning might be that you'll lose meaning from all other things, and maybe 'meaning' is something that happens with serotonin as well.

It's hard to measure 'meaning/meaninglessness', so after being off depression for 6 months because of psychedelics, and we imagine you don't take them since those 6 months, your stored fat/[other concept that produces the curation of 'depression'] and that effect WILL then fade, and it bites back and gives you the withdrawal from doing them. (Depression hit (caused by serotonin deregulation).) BUT at this time, you'll not create the causality link between psychedelics and your future 'depression'.

Just telling, the price is very likely probably somewhere, even if hard to see or judge.

I don't believe in no side effects, there are cons/pros to everything.

But we shall measure an entire life of psychedelics usage, for instance, you cannot judge a window of a year or two.

Edited February 11 by AerisVahnEphelia

[Yousif]

19 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

Let's imagine you are awakened via psychedelics.

I mean only for 'awakening'  / 'god realization'

It's not a topic against usage. It's a topic to speak on going beyond the usage of drugs.

For people not interested in it. That's fine.

Let's be practical for the interested:

what's in it then, after you meet god and yourself there is no need to go further.

You're not different from an alcoholic if that's for free 'pleasure'

 

If you are into it for relative reasons it's fine. ( But it might just be addiction disguised as path by the ego ) like all weed addicts. ( "It makes me sharp" etc.. )

Here is my very counter view : you are burning your receptors/brain. ( No need to go metaphysical on me. Your 'brain' is real in a certain way )

We can't measure it and might never do but still you can still feel apparent causality.

So here is my experience and why I feel I need to never do them again by myself, or at least never been looking for it. ( Lol well aight this was a joke )

So I feel like on the topic of safety.

Like all 'good things' you'll have a price to pay.

At the pure body level ( I surely agree it can be very good for mental and paradigm healing ) but let's talk pure physics.

You can argue it's not toxic. But then Xanax and alcohol aren't either.

You take Xanax for anxiety : you quit you more anxious.

Take psychedelics for X : you quit and it makes you more X

Maybe you don't agree but I barely believe in free heat.

We got no idea what is mitigated by serotonin 2A receptor (5-HT2AR).

The heart alright but how does it play on your health and vibration to deregulate it.

Psychedelics aren't toys and no play and not here for any enjoyment is my point.

I suspect like weed the come down is extremely delayed might even be months after your last intake.

Your brain truly quit weed only 3 months after the last intake. Before this, it's the first phase.

So psychedelics might also takes months to show you the real withdrawal. I suspect 6-8 months.

But mental healing can have occured and you'll be in a better place. But still I'm talking pure physics here.

So you shall not do psychedelics more than once a year and if you are enlightened unless you have some serious reasons like science it's not worth it to keep adding false sugar.

Your 'meditation' will be stronger and everything can be done through better means.

Don't get attached to the past tools evolve.

 

That’s like saying you’ve already lived long enough and you know what living is so why keep living? You might get hurt more than you already have. 
 

or saying you’ve been breathing for a long time, you know what breathing is, why do you keep doing it?

or to put it an a simple example why do you keep living, what’s the point? 

the more you live the more you’ll damage your body. 
 

the more you eat you stop, the hungrier you get 

the more you breath, you stop, the more you’re breathing.

this is basically what you’re saying.

 

 

Edited February 11 by Yousif