Leo, are you more conservative yet?

[Butters]

And has your view on Trump changed at all? 

I'm always pretty progressive, but...

Clearly the Western world is shifting towards a much more Conservative rhetoric. Here in Europe populism has seen a huge rise and continues growing, and in my country populist parties received nearly half the votes in our national elections! 

Your country is no different. How do you feel about these statements?

• Do you agree that your country has bigger fish to fry than transgender bathrooms? 
• The world is at war. There's already (digital, economical) warfare happening between EU, US and China, and the global tensions won't calm anytime soon. 
• The U.S. should focus on national conservatism and leave the UN, or at least pump less money to Europe / Ukraine
• The U.S. border crisis is a high priority
• If you live in a Western country, it is wise to vote conservative at this moment in time

As a European of course I wouldn't want the U.S. to leave the UN. The upcoming 2024 European Parliament elections will likely be very populist colored as well. Here in Europe we now see high ranking military officers on television talking about a possible war with Russia. I have no idea what to think of all this.

Edited February 10 by Butters

[Hardkill]

Why would he change his mind about Trump or ever have a positive view about him? If anything, I'd think that he would say that Trump has gotten even more dangerous, more extreme, and more psychotic. It's also becoming increasingly likely that Trump will be a convicted felon and then face very serious justice for what he did.

[Haribo]

Bigger fish to fry than transgender bathrooms is something that conservatives should really take to heart. They are the ones obsessed with this question.

 

This conservative way is a humanities reaction to the fear that is spreading due to the quick pace of change we are seeing in the world. And while caution in the face of problems is good and has it’s place, giving in to this fear will solve nothing. And that’s what conservatism has been in the americas, can’t speak for europe since i’m not up to date on European politics.

 

That said, both in the us and in brazil this “populist wave” is largely people just giving in to fear and choosing to save what they can for themselves while telling themselves that it is not their problems.

But guess what, IT IS.

It is everyone’s problems. The world is changing quickly because technology is changing it. Going back to acting how we did 50 years ago won’t solve anything, on the contrary.

Our problem is that our social structures aren’t changing fast enough to keep up with the technology advancements (of course it is more complex than that, but that’s the essence)

If anything, we have to dare think farther than before. Be even more progressive in our way of seeing the world.

If your car starts to go fast while sliding down a hill, hitting the brakes will make it roll over.

[Butters]

1 hour ago, Haribo said:

Be even more progressive in our way of seeing the world.

Would you think this if your government called you for mandatory military service overseas to fight for your country? We need stage blue solutions right now; more budget to military to defend our countries and what we stand for. That budget has to come out from somewhere else. 

Don't you think China will walk all over you if there's no strong leadership? Your country is so divided right now, you really think the Democrats are going to make it better? 

1 hour ago, Haribo said:

It is everyone’s problems. The world is changing quickly because technology is changing it. Going back to acting how we did 50 years ago won’t solve anything, on the contrary.

I totally agree with that and the xenophobia is laughable and sad. My point is more about the move towards conservatism, which seems to be going on in Europe right now and especially popular with Gen Z. I think Gen Z isn't stupid, so it makes me wonder. 

Also I realize now that making a point about conservatism in a very general sense while being randomly pulling up examples will inevitably lead to some straw-men arguments or never ending discussions but meh. Try to see my point as merely hypothetical, very broad strokes and imaginary 😂

What would a stage yellow conservatism approach look like? 

Edited February 10 by Butters

[Haribo]

I don’t get what you mean by this war question? if my country wanted me to go fight overseas i would desert and go live somewhere else. I have no intention of dying on a landmine fighting on someone else’s country. And i see no reason why i would stop being progressive? If anything i would want change even more.

And you don’t need to be a conservative to be a strong leader. Strength of will is not specific to any developmental stage, nor any side of political spectrum.

I personally think the democrats are just as capable of dealing with china as the conservatives. The US is in a very strong position, as long as it doesn’t loose the technological edge and doesn’t collapse politically it will come out on top.

I don’t see conservatives as better for the tech sector than liberals or progressives, and to this day i haven’t seen anyone claim the are.

On the political unity front, i see no way out that doesn’t involve the emergence of tier 2. And for tier 2 to emerge we NEED stage green to mature. For that purpose i don’t think electing stage blue people will do any good.

 

——

Well, i don’t think “stage yellow conservatism” as a concept makes sense.

Conservatives historically are the people who resist the emergence of a new memetic stage.

Today they are the people who resist the arrival of stage green.

From the middle ages to the age of enlightenment the conservatives were the people who resisted stage orange.

Even back in tribal times, the conservatives tried to maintain the tribal purple values while the “progressives” of the time pushed for stage red unification through force.

So, if this pattern continues a stage yellow conservative would be someone who’s resisting stage turquoise, though we probably won’t see that in our lifetime.

That said, it is doubtful wether this pattern will hold up, i would bet it won’t. This pattern relies on the “my way is the correct way” of tier 1. So i doubt a tier 2 society will have people resisting new memes like our society does today.

That doesn’t mean we won’t have people who want to conserve things, a stage yellow person can have any singular idea that today would be assigned to conservatives, like tighter border policies, less gun restrictions, or anything really. But i don’t think they would ever be “conservative”. They would be constantly trying to see what ought to be changed and what ought to be maintained, how it ought to be changed, going case by case.

 

That’s my view. What do you think?

[Leo Gura]

I'm not conservative in the sense of how online right-wing figures are. But I clearly see the problems and limits of progressives.

Trump is not a conservative. He's just a con-artist, and anything he touches will turn to shit.

Edited February 11 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But I clearly see the problems and limits of progressives.

We tried electing a progressive loud mouth in Texas for governor in 2022 and got our ass kicked… so yeah.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not conservative in the sense of how online right-wing figures are. But I clearly see the problems and limits of progressives.

Trump is not a conservative. He's just a con-artist, and anything he touches will turn to shit.

Yeah, even most real conservatives don't think that Trump is a true conservative at heart. Most people don't even know where he truly stands on the political ideological spectrum deep down. He has only ran as an extreme conservative Republican, because he knew that a lot voters on the right-wing were much more easy to fool than the voters on either the left or the center. It's also because conservatives generally are more primitive than liberals and Trump has always been more primitive as a person than even the average American. Therefore, his level of development has always aligned more with conservatives than liberals.