“being vegan is more expensive than being a meat eater.” Is that true?

[blankisomeone]

One of my blockages to switching to a vegan diet is that (along with some other blockages concerning health). But is that true? Is it more expensive?

[Osaid]

Plants and vegetables get expensive to produce and sell. Gonna have to stock up on lots of different plant stuff to feel satiated. If you're not satiated and properly nourished, you are also going to end up buying and eating more as a result. I imagine there could be a more efficient way to do it, but it will take some trial and error and research.

Vegetarian is much more doable IMO, could easily live that way personally.

On the other hand, meat is very very expensive for the type of nutrition you get from it. So I actually don't agree with the initial statement at all. I think it is badly worded, perhaps it is trying to say that being vegan is just more expensive than most diets in general. 

[Princess Arabia]

Now you just revealed another blockage. Abundance of $$. Yeah, I know, money don't grow on trees. Money is hard to come by. Abundance is for the rich, etc, etc. Do you see there's no shortage of lack. Watch your words and thoughts about $$. It's energetic.

[shallotsometimes]

The price difference is less about vegan vs non-vegan, but whether you’re buying vegan specialty items (vegan egg yolk, vegan cupcakes, mock meats etc.) and about the quality of the food (like whether it’s organic or contains additives.) Naturally vegan foods like beans, rice, veggies, tofu cost less in comparison to meat and dairy products generally.

I also find that vegetarian / vegan options at restaurants can be cheaper, meat can cost an extra $2 or $3.

I am vegetarian and not fully vegan myself, but this is a good resource answering your question in further depth: https://acti-veg.com/isnt-veganism-more-expensive/

[Basman]

In my experience, vegetarianism is the most affordable diet and what I run 80% of the time. Veggies, pasta, rice, oats, diary and eggs keep me going like an ox. The only meat I eat regularly is salami, which is quiet cheap relative to value in my area.

[Schizophonia]

Plant based diet obviously costs less.
If you are willing to consume bean plasters daily and you have alien intestines.

[undeather]

17 hours ago, blankisomeone said:

One of my blockages to switching to a vegan diet is that (along with some other blockages concerning health). But is that true? Is it more expensive?

It depends. 
As a general rule, plants are way cheaper than meat or fish products. This margin even grows if you factor in food quality - cheap cuts of meat are usually cheap for a reason. Higher quality, organically raised animals usually cost a multiple more than the less costly variants. On the contrary, high quality plant products usually just cost a few percent more than their counterpart.

This might change from country to country, but as a general rule, it's true! (for obvious thermodynamic and complexity reasons)

But then, you could also go full californian-vegan as well. Fancy salads with avocdo, blueberries, macadmia-nuts, the latest beyond-meat product & various other tropical toppings. That shit will make you poor!  

[Yimpa]

If you have to ask that question then your bank account must be pretty poorly fed to begin with.

[Rigel]

Any diet can be cheap or expensive. Quality determines the price.

Looking at both diets from a similar quality bench mark is beyond my pay grade.

Edited February 8, 2024 by Rigel

[Scholar]

The poorest people in the poorest countries eat almost exclusively plant based.

 

Vegan diets become expensive if you start buying mock products, otherwise the staple foods should be the cheapest you really can get in terms of nutrient ratios. Lentils are great for example.

[Applegarden8]

On 2/8/2024 at 2:54 AM, blankisomeone said:

One of my blockages to switching to a vegan diet is that (along with some other blockages concerning health). But is that true? Is it more expensive?

No, groundnuts + literally any fruit. That's how inexpensive it is.

[bebotalk]

It can be more expensive.

But it depends more on the place. Perhaps in the USA, with more processed foods and different distribution channels, it's more expensive. But even then, if a person lives in a rural area, there surely are more markets selling local produce. I'd find it hard to believe that in an African or Asian country, where agriculture is more prevalent and food supply is often more localised, that it's difficult to be a vegan. I once lived in the Caribbean, and compared to Western Europe it was quite eye-opening to see the various different fruits and veg that grew wild. People often had mango trees in their back gardens, and there was more of a market-based culture selling local produce than in Western Europe. 

In an urban environment in the USA or Europe, where most people might just get food from the local supermarket or rely on getting items from overseas to cover periods when they're out of season, then yes, I suppose it can be more expensive. It obviously costs money to get strawberries from Kenya or mangos from India to the average Walmart, Tesco or Carrefour all year around. 

[Jannes]

On 8.2.2024 at 7:17 PM, Schizophonia said:

Plant based diet obviously costs less.
If you are willing to consume bean plasters daily and you have alien intestines.

Red lentil plasters taste good and are super conveniently makable in an instant pot. 

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, Jannes said:

Red lentil plasters taste good and are super conveniently makable in an instant pot. 

Pov: You are in low fat plant based diet and you need more than 2000 calories per day:
Ummmmm... yum (sarcastic) 

[Schizophonia]

[Jannes]

10 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Pov: You are in low fat plant based diet and you need more than 2000 calories per day:
Ummmmm... yum (sarcastic) 

🤮🤮🤮 

Thats like 5000 calories I would guess - I want to through up just looking at this, where do you even find pictures like that? Have a fair conversation about veganism please, I could do the same thing and select disgusting photos of meat which dont represent your diet at all. 

I am vegetarian btw. 

 

[Schizophonia]

9 hours ago, Jannes said:

🤮🤮🤮 

Thats like 5000 calories

I think we are closer to 500kcal, most of which comes from what seems to be a mashed potato.

Quote

I would guess - I want to through up just looking at this, where do you even find pictures like that?
 

It’s Dr John Mcdougal. 
 

Quote

Have a fair conversation about veganism please, I could do the same thing and select disgusting photos of meat which dont represent your diet at all. 
 

Eheh, a piece of meat will never be disgusting unless it is spoiled, thrown in the dirt or something like that. 

Quote

I am vegetarian btw. 

 

I'm trolling a little with a background of what I consider to be an objective reality, the vegan diet is unnatural, fundamentally disgusting (not the disgust of pseudo-hygieno-idealistic indoctrination like "oh it's corpse", " oh it's animal excretions, bwaaaaa » etc)

You want soy/mushrooms because it reminds you of meat, you want to bake your potatoes because you don't like the horrible starchy texture, you want to put oil in your tomato beans and turmeric because it's the only thing that will make them tasty enough to swallow enough (same for other starches), you prefer pasta to other starches because the texture unconsciously reminds you of meat, you cheat by eating a lot of nuts, you make smoothies or oat “pancakes” because it’s easier to consume that way. You make "raw brownies" with cocoa and nuts because it's the only pleasant thing to eat in this damn diet lol, you also eat a lot of fruits but spaced out and especially watery (unconsciously to help liver function), the Bananas, dates or similar fruits are difficult to eat in large quantities because it’s disgusting. For the same reason, products with a high glucose/fructose ratio (glucose syrup, rice syrup, etc.) taste better than products with a balanced ratio (maple syrup, white sugar, golden syrup, maple syrup, certain honeys) which themselves taste better than products with high fructose/glucose ratio (corn syrup, agave syrup, certain honeys such as acacia honey, etc.).

I'm a demon, I see all the bullshit starting with mine, you won't get me.

Stick out the tongue* 

Edited February 12, 2024 by Schizophonia

[Jannes]

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I think we are closer to 500kcal, most of which comes from what seems to be a mashed potato.

That's dillusional. There are some examples.

I can cook some red lentil quinoa paste worth exactly 500 kcal and post the picture if you need that. 

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Eheh, a piece of meat will never be disgusting unless it is spoiled, thrown in the dirt or something like that. 

It can. I think the pic looks pretty disgusting. I think dissecting a whole animal from scratch would be pretty disgusting as well but I can only speak for myself. 

Also vegans never argued that meat doesnt taste good and therefore shouldn't be eaten, they make alternatives that taste as good or close to as good as meat. They make the point that it is unethical for different reasons and that taste doesnt equal health. Even strict herbivores in the animal kingdom munch on meat when they get the chance.

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I'm trolling a little with a background of what I consider to be an objective reality, the vegan diet is unnatural, fundamentally disgusting (not the disgust of pseudo-hygieno-idealistic indoctrination like "oh it's corpse", " oh it's animal excretions, bwaaaaa » etc)

You want soy/mushrooms because it reminds you of meat, you want to bake your potatoes because you don't like the horrible starchy texture, you want to put oil in your tomato beans and turmeric because it's the only thing that will make them tasty enough to swallow enough (same for other starches), you prefer pasta to other starches because the texture unconsciously reminds you of meat,

How much meat is consumed raw and without flavoring? What do you do with flavoring - you make it taste more like vegetables. How horribly boring would most meat taste without vegetable flavoring haha. 

I cook food because that's what humans have evolved into. We cooked for so long that we got a pretty unique digesting system that is designed for cooked food.  

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

you cheat by eating a lot of nuts

Hypothetically how would that be cheating? Also I dont.

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

, you make smoothies or oat “pancakes” because it’s easier to consume that way.

Well it tastes good. I can eat a shitton of fruit and oats in a variety of ways. 

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

You make "raw brownies" with cocoa and nuts because it's the only pleasant thing to eat in this damn diet lol,

I disagree. 

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

you also eat a lot of fruits but spaced out and especially watery (unconsciously to help liver function), the Bananas, dates or similar fruits are difficult to eat in large quantities because it’s disgusting.

Only eating that would not be a very balanced diet. 

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

For the same reason, products with a high glucose/fructose ratio (glucose syrup, rice syrup, etc.) taste better than products with a balanced ratio (maple syrup, white sugar, golden syrup, maple syrup, certain honeys) which themselves taste better than products with high fructose/glucose ratio (corn syrup, agave syrup, certain honeys such as acacia honey, etc.).

None of them are really part of a Whole Foods plant based diet and should only be consumed in small amounts. I dont even know what your point is with that.

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I'm a demon, I see all the bullshit starting with mine,

Yes please start.

43 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

you won't get me.

Stick out the tongue* 

Yeah I probably won't. 

[Jannes]

"Oh god hamburgers are so disgusting all of a sudden." 

 

[Schizophonia]

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

That's dillusional. There are some examples.

I can cook some red lentil quinoa paste worth exactly 500 kcal and post the picture if you need that. 

It's super annoying and you know it.
If you are a man, you should eat at least the equivalent of 4 times this mixture, knowing that other foods/preparations are not as dense.

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

It can. I think the pic looks pretty disgusting. I think dissecting a whole animal from scratch would be pretty disgusting as well but I can only speak for myself. 

Maybe, but your mind can be alienated in many ways, one way or the other, due to lifestyle and environmental influences in general.
What is not very plastic, however, is your digestive system.
Indeed, eating meat is already, to begin with, simply “technically” easier than eating legumes in large quantities.

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

Also vegans never argued that meat doesnt taste good and therefore shouldn't be eaten, they make alternatives that taste as good or close to as good as meat.

This is just the health argument, but if meat is bad or at least not necessary, well, why do you instinctively associate it with pleasure? 

That was my point. 

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

They make the point that it is unethical for different reasons

Ethics is a purely relative notion, moreover ethics, morality and this type of notions are basically a theological taxonomy. Obviously this is denied but the need for devotion is an important part of the motivation to be vegan. It very often looks like an onion in the middle of the mouth.
At least religions bring you a little closer to God, supposedly, they're not just some random dogmas to cling to.

But coming back to ethics, honestly I don't care, I have no problem killing an animal to eat it. Just a question of habit.

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

and that taste doesnt equal health.

Yes, but meat is the only natural food that tastes good, apart perhaps from nuts and a few fruits/tubers here and there.

Is God trying to deceive you? eh eh

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

Even strict herbivores in the animal kingdom munch on meat when they get the chance.

Yes

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

How much meat is consumed raw and without flavoring? What do you do with flavoring - you make it taste more like vegetables. How horribly boring would most meat taste without vegetable flavoring haha. 

Meat alone is good.
Raw fish is good, raw seafood is good, raw milk is good, raw animal fat is good...

Eventually, you may need to add a little salt to your steak, and the craving actually tends to decrease if you're on a carnivore diet, due to the lower potassium intake (I assume).

So yes, I can eat a whole 1kg steak almost raw without any problem even without salt, and you can eat the calorie equivalent of beans without condiments? 

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

I cook food because that's what humans have evolved into. We cooked for so long that we got a pretty unique digesting system that is designed for cooked food.  

You can cook meet too.

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

Hypothetically how would that be cheating? Also I dont.

Because it's a more efficient and enjoyable way to consume a lot of calories, rather than eating starch.

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

Well it tastes good. I can eat a shitton of fruit and oats in a variety of ways. 

Well, can you eat your oatmeal with a spoon like that?
And can you eat lots of sugar at once, not diluted with water but concentrated in the form of dates or bananas?

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

I disagree. 

huhumm

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

Only eating that would not be a very balanced diet. 

of course 

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

None of them are really part of a Whole Foods plant based diet and should only be consumed in small amounts. I dont even know what your point is with that.

My point is that for some reason your body doesn't like fructose in large amounts, and that's probably a reason not to consume large amounts of fruit.
It's not like if fruit, honey etc had nutrients that totally changed fructose metabolism, that would be crazy.
Btw choline is the most effective nutrient for supporting hepatic metabolism, the main source of choline are animal products, especially eggs and organs.

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

Yes please start.

Yeah I probably won't. 

1)It's still almost half of what I have to consume each day.
2) These are well-prepared dishes that are edible without making a face. No one can eat like that most of the time you'll be with your can of beans and your banana lol.
I too can mix my urine with honey until it becomes quite good, that doesn't mean I'm inclined to urinotherapy.

On 12/02/2024 at 1:46 PM, Jannes said:

I'm sure you dream of a big steak, not overcooked, with butter.