Solipsism->nonduality ->Ontological Nihilism

[Razard86]

12 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

Wouldn't this be expected though? As the body itself is just an extremely dense form of thought/imagination in gods mind? Such that it manifests itself as "material" because that's exactly what god dreamt it to be. Would it not be expected then that if you stop imagining the body the capacity for metaphysical thought would still be there, instead of assuming metaphysical thought to be locked into the body?

I feel like a true realization of god's mind would render this obvious. What do you think?

You are correct, I forgot to mention that my thought was metaphysical at that point thanks for reminding me. Yeah all my thoughts created stuff in that moment in the void. So yes you are correct. Its been 2 years since that awakening and it scared the crap out of me because it happened without warning. 

[Jehovah increases]

On 09/02/2024 at 7:02 AM, Razard86 said:

That's the thing, I became the void and STILL had thoughts and emotions. That is what I am saying. When it happened I realized all the stuff I was told about the void was B.S. This is why you have to find out for yourself. Thoughts and emotions are a quality of God. 

And then try to ponder or just to be able to think and how you as God created the concept of a concept and gave it meaning and then to create emotions and be able to feel them. Everything even ego is all God.  Such an infinite beautiful mind.    It is beyond unique beyond the beyond. It is so proudly deep that I could never do it justice with such limited words. The design is infinite intelligence. I never got that void of no thought yes it is B.S. It Must be like lower ranks of consciousness.

This is why you have to find out for yourself.

Only once did I experience what one would call the absence of self or loss of identity or ego death or what have you? It is total amnesia and took around 40 minutes until all the pieces came back. Did not know what I was who I was where I was or anything. Must be like a low-end state of consciousness and it never happened again.  After that when I woke as myself, God I retained all of me and so much more. I remember once I kept waking up again and again in other words it seemed like multiple awakings in one.  It's like God forgets again and then finds himself again and this went on for a few hours or I just kept waking up to higher and higher degrees of consciousness. It's like the whole Universe, Consciousness you are celebrating with you. 

 

Edited February 10 by Jehovah increases

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

That's the thing, I became the void and STILL had thoughts and emotions. That is what I am saying. When it happened I realized all the stuff I was told about the void was B.S. this is why you have to find out for yourself. Thoughts and emotions are a quality of God, its not human specific. Aliens have thoughts and emotions as well.

There is the entrance into the void and then there is the complete wipeout. Those are apparently different things. I've personally only had the entrance, but even then, my thoughts and emotions became at least extremely reduced, if not completely gone for a period. But there are people who talk about a complete wipeout where there is literally nothing. 

Regardless, the fact that you were able to retain your thoughts and emotions in a certain state of consciousness doesn't really tell us much about the question. After all, you're retaining your thoughts and emotions now, and that doesn't tell us much either. Of course, there is evidence, like people claiming to communicate with God and hear the voice of God, but it's not strong evidence.

It's a bit funny in a way, because it's a similar problem to what egoic solipsists bring up ("how do you know that other egos have an egoic experience?"), only that now you really don't have a good way to counter it, because God doesn't seem to reveal itself quite as easily like that. A possible trap here is "but wasn't Jesus just that?". Well, no, because Jesus is just another human that God is puppeteering. The question we're asking is: what about the puppet master? Does the puppet master have its own thoughts and emotions distinct from the puppets it's puppeteering? And if so, how would we come to know that?

Edited February 9 by Carl-Richard

[Razard86]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

There is the entrance into the void and then there is the complete wipeout. Those are different things. I've personally only had the entrance, but even then, my thoughts and emotions became at least extremely reduced. But other people talk about a complete wipeout where there is literally nothing. 

Regardless, the fact that you were able to retain your thoughts and emotions in a certain state of consciousness doesn't really tell us much about the question. After all, you're retaining your thoughts and emotions now, and that doesn't tell us much either. Of course, there is evidence, like people claiming to communicate with God and hear the voice of God, but it's not conclusive evidence.

There is no wipeout, that's the point I am saying. People will tell you stuff and then when you experience it you realize it was just some parroting of someone who never had the experience. There is NO WIPEOUT, I repeat there is no wipeout. If  anything there is an enhancement. Also there is no entrance to the void, THIS is the void right now. That was the point of the awakening.

[Carl-Richard]

On 9.2.2024 at 2:41 AM, Razard86 said:

There is no wipeout, that's the point I am saying. People will tell you stuff and then when you experience it you realize it was just some parroting of someone who never had the experience. There is NO WIPEOUT, I repeat there is no wipeout. If  anything there is an enhancement. Also there is no entrance to the void, THIS is the void right now. That was the point of the awakening.

Maybe there are more awakenings to discover  

Thoughts and emotions, if not tied to a gross body, probably need to be tied to a subtle body, like the kind that leaves the gross body in an out of body experience. Some people report that the thoughts and emotions in those experiences are of a different kind than their usual egoic thoughts, which is also interesting. When you detach from the subtle body, maybe then it's a complete wipeout: no experience. So even if we can't see "God himself" in his gross physical form, maybe he has a subtle body with thoughts and emotions tied to it. But that makes it even harder for us to know whether he has those thoughts and emotions or not (because it's subtle).

Edited February 11 by Carl-Richard

[Razard86]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Maybe there are more awakenings to discover

Again there is no wipeout, I've lost consciousness before but I wouldn't call that a wipeout, I call that cessation and it was just done to show me that Consciousness is capable of doing that. The cessation has no qualia to it, and no length to it. A wipeout would be something permanent, that cessation was momentary.

[Francis777]

would we not consider a Wipeout to be a a complete non-dual experience? God consciousness with zero distinctions?

Edited February 9 by Francis777

[Francis777]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You are correct, I forgot to mention that my thought was metaphysical at that point thanks for reminding me. Yeah all my thoughts created stuff in that moment in the void. So yes you are correct. Its been 2 years since that awakening and it scared the crap out of me because it happened without warning. 

i see.

[Razard86]

11 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

would we not consider a Wipeout to be a a complete non-dual experience? God consciousness with zero distinctions?

Duality is inherently non-dual. We are having the God Consciousness experience right now. That is the point I am making. Form and formless are identical. So right now there are no distinctions, you have to construct distinctions which you are doing right now. Consider that all form is constructed, but made from the same stuff as what you would call the wipeout. If it's made of the same stuff, then right now we are already wiped out with form.

 

[Francis777]

3 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Duality is inherently non-dual. We are having the God Consciousness experience right now. That is the point I am making. Form and formless are identical. So right now there are no distinctions, you have to construct distinctions which you are doing right now. Consider that all form is constructed, but made from the same stuff as what you would call the wipeout. If it's made of the same stuff, then right now we are already wiped out with form.

 

yeah I get that, that's not a peak breakthrough non-dual experience though, that's just an integrated god realised ego self. Which doesn't that just make this a pointless word game? Its just another way of framing it, your still seeing form, you just know that none of those forms can ever truly be separate which ultimately makes them formless now AS A PERSPECTIVE. Its not true formlessness, its just a filter that you've integrated into your perspective of reality from your individual viewpoint. True formlessness doesn't even have perspectives.

[Carl-Richard]

On 9.2.2024 at 3:01 AM, Razard86 said:

Again there is no wipeout, I've lost consciousness before but I wouldn't call that a wipeout, I call that cessation and it was just done to show me that Consciousness is capable of doing that. The cessation has no qualia to it, and no length to it.

Ok, a cessation then.

A bit of a tangent: when you said "lost consciousness", I thought you meant like a concussion. I got that skiing once when I was like 11 (I've technically had many, but this was a pretty solid one). I went on a "jump" that lead out from the woods and into the main slope and flew across the air and smashed my head into the ground. As my head hit the ground, I heard a metallic "doioioioioiong" sound, and it was as if I was inside a dark box that rotated backwards for a few seconds. Then I came back to reality crying because my head hurt. That was probably my first serious experience of an altered state of consciousness  (outside the ones when I was very little).

 

On 9.2.2024 at 3:01 AM, Razard86 said:

A wipeout would be something permanent

I wasn't saying that, although that is also something that is talked about (Nirvana: the end of the cycle of birth and rebirth).

Edited February 11 by Carl-Richard

[Inliytened1]

32 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

yeah I get that, that's not a peak breakthrough non-dual experience though, that's just an integrated god realised ego self. Which doesn't that just make this a pointless word game? Its just another way of framing it, your still seeing form, you just know that none of those forms can ever truly be separate which ultimately makes them formless now AS A PERSPECTIVE. Its not true formlessness, its just a filter that you've integrated into your perspective of reality from your individual viewpoint. True formlessness doesn't even have perspectives.

Precisely.   Basically you are  talking about Pure Infinity.   You are finite now.  We go back to the age old debate that finitude doesn't exist.  It does.  It's a state of Consciousness. 

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Carl-Richard do you believe/think / consider that this universe actually exists absolutely speaking (that is under all circumstances)?

Its ONLY taking place in your consciousness...isn’t it so ? Are you gonna deny that the only evidence that the universe exists is that its in your consciousness right now?  So what happens if we subtract away that consciousness from the equation like when you sleep or die?

  Just the mere fact that when you sleep you shift to different mental universes (dreams ) or more significantly to deep sleep which is the collapsing of the entire universe is enough to prove that nothing actually exists . 

Another point .you can't grasp something real and show it to me . All forms are In a state of constant flux . Nothing is there .or here .or anywhere. 

We are no ones .and no where .

@Carl-Richard no response to this ?

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Francis777 said:

yeah I get that, that's not a peak breakthrough non-dual experience though, that's just an integrated god realised ego self. Which doesn't that just make this a pointless word game? Its just another way of framing it, your still seeing form, you just know that none of those forms can ever truly be separate which ultimately makes them formless now AS A PERSPECTIVE. Its not true formlessness, its just a filter that you've integrated into your perspective of reality from your individual viewpoint. True formlessness doesn't even have perspectives.

You keep constructing separation. Form is TRUE formlessness. It is NOT a word game. There is nowhere to go, and nowhere to reach. It's all right here right now. The purpose of changing your state is to remind you of that. Awakening is just a remembrance. Every time I have an awakening I laugh because I say, "I can't believe I keep forgetting that it is all here and always here." 

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You keep constructing separation. Form is TRUE formlessness. It is NOT a word game. There is nowhere to go, and nowhere to reach. It's all right here right now. The purpose of changing your state is to remind you of that. Awakening is just a remembrance. Every time I have an awakening I laugh because I say, "I can't believe I keep forgetting that it is all here and always here." 

It's not a goal of the ego but the fact remains that there are other states of consciousness.  Yes - all that exists right now is your current state of consciousness.  But we know from direct experience that there are different states of consciousness.   That is indeed stored in memory so that we can self reference it. And that difference right now is imaginary- but notice - everything  - all things - are imaginary.   This closes the loop.  Only existence itself is Truth.  So yes - you are not wrong- but the fact still remains that you can become Infinite, Alien Consciousness. 

Edited February 9 by Inliytened1

[Francis777]

9 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Precisely.   Basically you are  talking about Pure Infinity.   You are finite now.  We go back to the age old debate that finitude doesn't exist.  It does.  It's a state of Consciousness. 

Yes exactly, finitude IS form. @Razard86

[Davino]

14 hours ago, Razard86 said:

There is NO WIPEOUT, I repeat there is no wipeout.

Bro there is certainly a cessation that ejaculates everything out of existence. A full colapse of reality into pure nothingness. This has been talked about for centuries.

I haven't experienced it myself but there are too many reports of this. It's the whole aim of buddhism.

Although I have to say that the one time I did experience the void it was very similar to your experience. In my case everything was pure void except for little spec of dust, very very far away, which was my body.

I still could think and feel, however I honestly was more surprised about my body being a tiny dot in the void, than the void itself. It was a strange thing, I'm used to go arround with this body you know or at least you breakthrough, but having an infinitely small body in a boundless limitless void; that was a bit too much to add into my Salvia trip.

Then the trip ends and I settle down. I remember crying while feeding my cat minutes after finishing the trip. So beautiful to see colours and shapes, being able to use my body and to have another sentient being to whom I could feed. This possibility just minutes ago, was gone forever. Then I cried again while I was eating, what a bliss it was to be a human in a rock eating some macaroni! That was enlightening, pure zen appretiation ahahahha

This is the closest I have ever been to shit myself in a trip I had to even check... 

[Breakingthewall]

There is nothing special about total emptiness, it is simply the cessation of mental activity. Everything that happens in your experience you are creating in your mind. This is obvious and it is not something spiritual or mystical, your brain is creating the world (now someone will say: you are imagining your brain.... ). This does not mean that what appears is not real, it is simply that you are creating a world from the external. If your mental activity stops, for example in my case doing 5meo, there is nothing left, total emptiness. Only the consciousness of emptiness remains, and this is where we want to get to, pure consciousness without content. zero, without thought or images, sensations. absolutely nothing. If you are able to maintain this, revelation occurs, the unfathomable depth that lives, what you really are and what anything is.

This does not mean that you know that others do not exist, that you are God, that you are creating reality... all of these are mental interpretations, they mean nothing. You know absolutely nothing, you have simply realized the unfathomable alive, the source of everything , you have merged with it and have become the infinite void that is everything. that's it. Understanding is something that happens inside this, therefore is incomplete, so it's better to let it go. Being is understanding, I think (for now) that the whole thing is impossible to grasp, just because it's unlimited. Understanding is limiting and can create a kind of confusion that is close the psychosis. Just my understanding for now. 

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall This is true but it's a facet. There is more. My answer to your post is Yes, but more, much more.

[Davino]

Returning to the topic of Solipsism.

The moment you realize solipsism you will kiss your table, walls and floor, out of pure recognition and love.

Imagine not seeing your beloved wife for years and then reuniting again,

like that but even more close to your heart, loving all the disowned parts of yourself