Solipsism->nonduality ->Ontological Nihilism

[Someone here]

This second video is from a guy who is a member in this forum and he is also active on spirituality-related topics on Quora. 

So the point that these people are making is that in solipsism the claim is that all that exists in reality is me . Or ..the content of my consciousness right now and nothing else . All "others " are mere NPC ..yada yada ..I think most of you guys are familiar with solipsism as it is probably the single most discussed topic on this forum .

Their point is that nonduality/Advaita makes an even more radical claim ..that the "me " which is said to be the only thing that exists in the solipsistic worldview  ..that that me is ALSO illusory . So not only others don't exist . But you yourself don't exist either . There is simply nobody home in the entire universe .

Now ..this leads us to what is called " metaphysical Nihilism "..which simply states that In fact ..nothing exists at all in reality ..no self..no other ..no world ..no universe etc . And this also known as Ajata in Buddhism which is the idea that reality is absolutely empty and devoid of any real substance..or simply put it doesn't exist. 

And this is how you actually do the work that Leo suggests to actually deconstruct all of reality...it takes three steps:

1- metaphysical solipsism (only me exist.others don't  ). 

2-Advaita (even I don't exist ).

3Ajata (nothing at all actually exist ).

 

[Ishanga]

This is the problem when You make Spirituality a thing to Study, it leads to all sorts of insanity, craziness, theory creation, all of which leads you to the other side of Truth and Reality.. Spirituality is all about Reality and Truth, not thinking about it, studying it, theorizing it to death as we do with everything in our society and world, we think it too Death, using Intellect, which is a cutting tools that separates everything, this doesn't work..

Use Awareness, that is a combining and unionizing tool, it brings things together which is what we want when we say we are on a Spiritual path...

Nothing exists but here we are typing on something on an imaginary internet forum, created by You who started this thread that doesn't exist, posting video's ppl who don't exist to prove nothing exists....its absolutely Nuts!!!

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

This is the problem when You make Spirituality a thing to Study, it leads to all sorts of insanity, craziness, theory creation, all of which leads you to the other side of Truth and Reality.. Spirituality is all about Reality and Truth, not thinking about it, studying it, theorizing it to death as we do with everything in our society and world, we think it too Death, using Intellect, which is a cutting tools that separates everything, this doesn't work..

Use Awareness, that is a combining and unionizing tool, it brings things together which is what we want when we say we are on a Spiritual path...

Nothing exists but here we are typing on something on an imaginary internet forum, created by You who started this thread that doesn't exist, posting video's ppl who don't exist to prove nothing exists....its absolutely Nuts!!!

Answer me this please .

why is there something rather than nothing? 

Not a single answer can be provided coherently other than that there simply isn't. 

There isn't! Tada!! 

So supposedly  that's the universe's ultimate question. Let's dig into it. And prove that reality doesn't actually exist lol 

Ponder this : how is it possible that a physical universe made of physical actual "real" matter can exist at all in God's earth?  Yeah its impossible. Notice that your experience right now is an impossible phenomenon. Infinity is the impossible made possible as Leo calls it. 

Yup..it's absolutely nuts when ya get it .

[Ishanga]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Answer me this please .

why is there something rather than nothing? 

Not a single answer can be provided coherently other than that there simply isn't. 

There isn't! Tada!! 

So supposedly  that's the universe's ultimate question. Let's dig into it. And prove that reality doesn't actually exist lol 

Ponder this : how is it possible that a physical universe made of physical actual "real" matter can exist at all in God's earth?  Yeah its impossible. Notice that your experience right now is an impossible phenomenon. Infinity is the impossible made possible as Leo calls it. 

Yup..it's absolutely nuts when ya get it .

There's both, No Thing and Some Thing, No Thing (Shiva) is non physicality, it is an invisible intelligence per say, words can't describe, if it does then it becomes Some Thing, so using words limits our ability to describe the indescribable.. from there, this grand intelligence, subtlety is born, Shiva is No Thing, Shakti is that No Thing in motion, that is the start of Subtle creation, not even atoms yet, but it goes on from there, I'm not a scientist, but there is something there before the Big Bang, then Creation happens, then it goes on to what we have today, tons of creation, tons of physicality but lots of space inbetween (there is more empty space or akasha in an atom than any particle or wave)..

So in creation it goes from Subtle to Grossness, what most ppl think they are, Body/Mind complex is the Grossest aspect of Creation, along with Trees, Animals, Amoeba etc etc....In fundamental terms we are not our Body or Mind, all of that is accumulated/gathered stuffs, what we are in more fundamental, call it Life, upon which body and mind rest as tools we can use,  but in embodied physical form in a dual physical world, and we have the ability to realize our true nature, we call it Enlightenment...

People here are into calling all of this Imaginary or Illusion/Maya, Maya does not mean something does not exist, it means it exist but not as we are perceiving or experiencing it, when Your Enlightened You experience it at a higher level of intensity and clarity, it blows you away, but if You stay in that state, watching a bubble float in the air marvelling at it, you won't live very long as the tiger approaches you to eat you alive!!

Edited February 5 by Ishanga

[Someone here]

@Ishanga first of all these are all religious concepts. They are not necessarily true .

Secondly..im not making this shit up ..you can research what Advaita is and what emptiness/ajata are .

7 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

So in creation it goes from Subtle to Grossness, what most ppl think they are, Body/Mind complex is the Grossest aspect of Creation, along with Trees, Animals, Amoeba etc etc....In fundamental terms we are not our Body or Mind, all of that is accumulated/gathered stuffs, what we are in more fundamental, call it Life, upon which body and mind rest as tools we can use,  but in embodied physical form in a dual physical world

Well.. that’s the thing. There are no objects at all.. nor any world. There is. however.. an appearance of objects and a world..which is not at all what it seems to be.

Asking why there really are not ACTUAL objects is an understandable question. Contemplating the actuality of an object is similar to wondering if images on a filmstrip are actual objects. An imagination projects these seemingly “actual objects”.. but they don’t have a fixed shape.. they don’t have a location.. they don’t exist in any time.. they don’t have identities.. no inherent purpose.. and are not substantiated through any external objective medium because such a thing is just not possible. Dig it? ... "reality" is NOT Possible. Only awareness of an appearance of reality is possible. 

This is really stretching my capacity to explain . If you don't get it no worries my friend . We are here to learn from each others .thanks for your comment 

[Carl-Richard]

If your endpoint is true non-duality, I wouldn't say solipsism is the first step. It's more like a step backwards. It's not actually a deconstruction. It's a construction; a fantasy, a dead end.

Any conceptual idea is a step backward, even ultimate skepticism, the seemingly most bare-boned position there is ("I can't know anything"). Because it's still just a conceptual idea. With respect to non-duality, Actuality itself is the only step forward.

Now, if you want to stay within the conceptual realm, these would be my steps (more epistemological than ontological): realism -> skepticism -> pragmatism -> meta-theory. I wrote a thread about it some years ago (and the various pitfalls associated with them):

Here, you can notice that each step becomes less restrictive and more expansive, as a result of each step countering or "deconstructing" the former. But each step can make the mistake of naivety, of essentially clinging to it like a dogma and creating a contracted and inflexible version of it, and that the mature perspective requires developing a nuanced grasp of it. Only adopting a conceptual idea of non-duality is similar: you don't have the right grasp of it but instead you cling to it like a baby on a tit.

Edited February 5 by Carl-Richard

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Ishanga first of all these are all religious concepts. They are not necessarily true .

Secondly..im not making this shit up ..you can research what Advaita is and what emptiness/ajata are .

Well.. that’s the thing. There are no objects at all.. nor any world. There is. however.. an appearance of objects and a world..which is not at all what it seems to be.

Asking why there really are not ACTUAL objects is an understandable question. Contemplating the actuality of an object is similar to wondering if images on a filmstrip are actual objects. An imagination projects these seemingly “actual objects”.. but they don’t have a fixed shape.. they don’t have a location.. they don’t exist in any time.. they don’t have identities.. no inherent purpose.. and are not substantiated through any external objective medium because such a thing is just not possible. Dig it? ... "reality" is NOT Possible. Only awareness of an appearance of reality is possible. 

This is really stretching my capacity to explain . If you don't get it no worries my friend . We are here to learn from each others .thanks for your comment 

All is good, learning and hearing from one another is a good way to be rather than war and all out nuts fighting eh:)

I think all this intellectual Top Level Down Methodology (what I label as a hierarchy in Spiritual Teachings or Traditions, Ramana Maharshi for eg is Top Level down sort of way, where there is no method needed, just realization of Truth and Reality, whereas Yoga is Bottom Up, You don't think these things, you think where You are starting right now, I want to be Peaceful, get that as an everyday experience then go from there) can lead most today on a path of endless thinking and intellectualizing, no one, or very few individuals know what is the reality of this sort of thing, and since we are mostly conditioned to the awareness level of our intellects, thinking this is intelligence when it isn't, it can lead us down roads we really don't want to travel:)

Here on this forum we are talking around Reality, Spirituality and Enlightenment and such things, not directly about it, as it is not possible to put these things on logical terms which communication is based off of... These things have to be personally experienced imo...

Edited February 5 by Ishanga

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

If your endpoint is true non-duality, I wouldn't say solipsism is the first step. It's more like a step backwards. It's not actually a deconstruction. It's a construction; a fantasy, a dead end.

 I disagree. The methods to awakening is necessarily a destructive road. You first deconstruct otherness and accept aloneness.  Then you deconstruct the self .then you deconstruct every single thing in existence.

Our essential essence is what is real im not stupid to deny that .but everything else that is added to this essential nature are false imagination . They are additions. Facades. So in order to find the original essential essence.. it is necessary to negate.. or subtract these false imaginations .
I have no comment about the rest of your post because I honestly didn't understand it . But thanks for your comment Carl. You're intelligent guy 

[Jac067]

I have a movie for you 

everything everywhere all at once.

Integrate all your theories into the movies as you watch. 

Edited February 5 by Jac067

[Ishanga]

@Someone here I think using the word "Imaginary" to describe everything that is added to our essential nature is not the right word to use, unless you are for certain saying our bodies and minds and everything physical on this planet and universe actually does not exist, but you also said these things exist as appearances, appearances in what? How can something appear if nothing, or no individuality exists? How can Oneness and that realm of no thing no creation experience anything, and how can imagination come into existence in that sort of place...

I would say most everything else that is beyond our essence is maya or illusionary, meaning it exists but not as we think or perceive it too be, in simple terms most ppl take most everything for granted, but if the atmosphere changed and O2 was no longer available for us to breath then physical death is imminent, then You will realize how important O2 is, this sort of thing... 

[Ishanga]

Also methods are a good thing, not egoic as I have read some spiritual teachers say they are, the Top Level down ppl do allot as well, but not everyone has the same karmic make up or realization, they need method to wipe the slate clean per say so realization can happen as it does for the Top Down Level ppl...

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 I disagree. The methods to awakening is necessarily a destructive road. You first deconstruct otherness and accept aloneness.  Then you deconstruct the self .then you deconstruct every single thing in existence.

Our essential essence is what is real im not stupid to deny that .but everything else that is added to this essential nature are false imagination . They are additions. Facades. So in order to find the original essential essence.. it is necessary to negate.. or subtract these false imaginations .

Solipsism, Advaita or Ajata never entered my mind when I first took the step into non-duality. But after I took that step, I started to see those aforementioned constructs for what they are: constructs. But sure, there are degrees of construct awareness within the realm of constructs. It's just that stepping outside all constructs is the only true step towards non-duality. If non-duality is approached in any other way, it's just another construct.

Edited February 5 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

This second video is from a guy who is a member in this forum

How do you know that / who is he?  

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

There is simply nobody home in the entire universe .

Weird. Because your username indicates otherwise.

[Hojo]

You have to note that when you say nothing exists you are still pointing to something that  is the only thing that exists. Its still there and its still something. Nothing is the metaphysical beggining and its actively participating in the universe. Look at the wall God is behind the wall now put your hand in front of your face. God is behind your hand now not a wall. And its back behind the wall when you move your hand back.

 

God is behind everything even behind you

Edited February 5 by Hojo

[r0ckyreed]

Just now, Hojo said:

Its still there and its still something. 

It is no-thing.

[Hojo]

Yes when the words 'absolutely nothing exists and nothing is in control' is right but what most don't get is nothing is a thing. Its the lack of things and that's why are we are looking for things because we don't have anything. We cannot have anything because we are no thing itself. We can't be ourselves if we think we have something, we become slaves to the thing.

Edited February 5 by Hojo

[UnbornTao]

Fun discussion based on exchanging beliefs.

[Ishanga]

9 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Fun discussion based on exchanging beliefs.

The thing about living in today's world is that most everything can be justified and explained in logical terms, ppl are dying today in wars based on this sort of things, justifications that make things alright, but are they?  Ppl are dying as well from lack of food, in generations that come after we are long gone it will be said that we let ppl die, not because there was a shortage of food, we have plenty of that, or a lack of means to get it to them, its because there is no Profit in feeding everyone on the planet, if that is okay with the powers that be then so be it, but consequence come sooner or later, so its the same with stuff like this, believe it all you want, consequences will come, good or bad doesn't matter, if you can Joyfully deal with those consequences then do what You like:) 

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Hojo said:

Yes when the words 'absolutely nothing exists and nothing is in control' is right but what most don't get is nothing is a thing. Its the lack of things and that's why are we are looking for things because we don't have anything. We cannot have anything because we are no thing itself. We can't be ourselves if we think we have something, we become slaves to the thing.

Existence is not an object. It is not a "thing." "Things" do not exist. Objects are illusions. It is all no-thing. It is pure Subjectivity. Pure Awareness.

Edited February 5 by r0ckyreed