If sex were free would relationships deepen?

[Jannes]

Stage green can be very promiscuous. It could develop further so that sex becomes pretty much free for guys. 

At first I thought it was a good thing because removing the neediness for sex would make people come together only for deeper reasons. 

On the other hand maybe that's what relationships are all about at the end. Loving somebody because you have to because you are dependent on them. You bullshit yourself into a bubble, the dependency is stronger than your demand for truth and you are genuinely happy in that bullshit bubble. 

What's the bigger picture here? 

Edit: Anyone familiar with the hippie movement? They probably had lots of experiences with that. 

Edited January 30 by Jannes

[Rafael Thundercat]

This is more complicated than just free sex. I have plenty of what we would call "liberal hippies" friends. But I think this lable is to simple for the situation.

To exemplify the recent story of a friend: She is a Girl and she is trying to disentangle from a romantic/sexual/Intimate connection with a guy, the guy is the sort of guy that say to her " I want to be free" and she get confused with this her since she carry this value of let people live their lifes freely but at same time she want to be seen, and respected as a sensible being. So you may ask: How she feels disrespected? 

She have a friend, another girl, very sexual open and this friend second to her is teaching a lot about being more sexual and so fort. But now the guy she was having a relationship is having desires for her sexualy open friend, and she at same time want to let people follow their sincere desires but the guy and the girl where having some connections in front of her. Not sex, just touching hands and well, signs of atraction, so she feels disconfort with this situation. The girl as a good  friend communicate with her that she respect her feelings and will not advance in the sexual stuff with the guy, but the guy dont communicate with her anything, he just stay in the shadow about the whole topic and when she try to cut cords with him he is aways is able to bend her mind again and keep her locked in this predicament where at same time she cant leave him but at same time she feels uncared unloved.

Difficut umh, imagine, desiring to let go of someone because he dont treat you with consideration and at same time still felling that you want to be with him and create a life toghether. 

Casual sex is no problem, the problem is when via sex a bond is created and one end up in a toxic loop , so where is the so called freedom that hippies preach? Freedoomed

[Rafael Thundercat]

As Leo points in some of his videos "humans beings think one thing when they praise total freedom, but they dont know what total freedom implies"

The book by Erich Fromm (Picture Below) touch this topic. The book may have its own bias, but this complex topic of freedom is a very interesting one since it can backwards. 

Escape from Freedom is a book that was translated into German and first published in 1952 under the title Die Angst vor der Freiheit (The Fear of Freedom). In the book, Fromm explores humanity's shifting relationship with freedom, how individual freedom can cause fear, anxiety and alienation, and how many people seek relief by relinquishing freedom. He describes how authoritarianism can be a mechanism of escape, with special emphasis on the psychosocial conditions that enabled the rise of Nazism.

 

[Jannes]

13 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

This is more complicated than just free sex. I have plenty of what we would call "liberal hippies" friends. But I think this lable is to simple for the situation.

To exemplify the recent story of a friend: She is a Girl and she is trying to disentangle from a romantic/sexual/Intimate connection with a guy, the guy is the sort of guy that say to her " I want to be free" and she get confused with this her since she carry this value of let people live their lifes freely but at same time she want to be seen, and respected as a sensible being. So you may ask: How she feels disrespected? 

She have a friend, another girl, very sexual open and this friend second to her is teaching a lot about being more sexual and so fort. But now the guy she was having a relationship is having desires for her sexualy open friend, and she at same time want to let people follow their sincere desires but the guy and the girl where having some connections in front of her. Not sex, just touching hands and well, signs of atraction, so she feels disconfort with this situation. The girl as a good  friend communicate with her that she respect her feelings and will not advance in the sexual stuff with the guy, but the guy dont communicate with her anything, he just stay in the shadow about the whole topic and when she try to cut cords with him he is aways is able to bend her mind again and keep her locked in this predicament where at same time she cant leave him but at same time she feels uncared unloved.

Difficut umh, imagine, desiring to let go of someone because he dont treat you with consideration and at same time still felling that you want to be with him and create a life toghether. 

Casual sex is no problem, the problem is when via sex a bond is created and one end up in a toxic loop , so where is the so called freedom that hippies preach? Freedoomed

Communication seems to be the problem here. People who approach sex differently (one casual, the other one with the intention to bond) shouldn't be together. 

[Jannes]

12 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

As Leo points in some of his videos "humans beings think one thing when they praise total freedom, but they dont know what total freedom implies"

I like that. 

12 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

The book by Erich Fromm (Picture Below) touch this topic. The book may have its own bias, but this complex topic of freedom is a very interesting one since it can backwards. 

Escape from Freedom is a book that was translated into German and first published in 1952 under the title Die Angst vor der Freiheit (The Fear of Freedom). In the book, Fromm explores humanity's shifting relationship with freedom, how individual freedom can cause fear, anxiety and alienation, and how many people seek relief by relinquishing freedom. He describes how authoritarianism can be a mechanism of escape, with special emphasis on the psychosocial conditions that enabled the rise of Nazism.

 

Very very interesting. It makes a lot of intuitive sense. 

I like this example of what it means in reverse. Once a certain grounding structure is given it's fun to break out of it. Like with the clone troopers. 

 

[gettoefl]

sex can never be free or casual or inconsequential

no matter how people brainwashed you to the contrary

since human sex/love always entails energetic exchange in some form

all give so they get

(only someone enlightened realizes giving is getting and the chances of two being enlightened is slimmer than a ballerina)

[Chrisd]

Nope but maybe leo knows more

[Jannes]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

sex can never be free or casual or inconsequential

no matter how people brainwashed you to the contrary

since human sex/love always entails energetic exchange in some form

all give so they get

(only someone enlightened realizes giving is getting and the chances of two being enlightened is slimmer than a ballerina)

True. What's your position on this then, like when is sex appropriate?

[gettoefl]

22 minutes ago, Jannes said:

True. What's your position on this then, like when is sex appropriate?

monogamous long-term relationships have been best for me

[Chrisd]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

monogamous long-term relationships have been best for me

Why

[gettoefl]

9 hours ago, Chrisd said:

Why

security stability solidity satisfaction for both

[Miguel1]

No.

Intimacy requires a deep connection. You cannot have a deep connection if you don't deepen it. And if you are having sex and orgies with 10s of people at a time, how do you deepen a connection?

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

No.

Intimacy requires a deep connection. You cannot have a deep connection if you don't deepen it. And if you are having sex and orgies with 10s of people at a time, how do you deepen a connection?

Don't you think the act of sex itself is a form of intimacy or is it a special kind of sex that is deepening?

And what's your opinion on the initial question? Do you think free sex is a good thing and people would connect with the intention of depth?

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 30/01/2024 at 0:37 PM, Jannes said:

I like that. 

Very very interesting. It makes a lot of intuitive sense. 

I like this example of what it means in reverse. Once a certain grounding structure is given it's fun to break out of it. Like with the clone troopers. 

 

True, there are people for example who lived years having sex with the same woman or man then one day they want to break free and experiment with others and all drama comes up.. oh my god how could you do it? 

Then there are poliamory people who after gettimg tired of a lot of connections and the whole anxiety to manage so many people.decide to go for monogamy and call that the new freedom, freedom from needing to manage so much people. Same in bussiness. People moving from a burnout work to work more chill and alligned with free time etc.. 

Me, I have this personal pendulum, I want my solitude to read, do my own thing and so fort. But soon or later I feel like being more social, then I be social and get tired of many people and desire more time for me again. 

End of story, there is no end for search of one side or other, the ego never get satisfaction. 

[Jannes]

@Rafael Thundercat Great examples!

[Miguel1]

19 hours ago, Jannes said:

Don't you think the act of sex itself is a form of intimacy or is it a special kind of sex that is deepening?

And what's your opinion on the initial question? Do you think free sex is a good thing and people would connect with the intention of depth?

You can definitely have sex with a new person, that is utterly shallow.

I've had plenty of those sex and frankly, they bore me to death nowadays.

---

Free sex is not a good thing in my opinion in the big picture - at least not in the age we live in.

It would be abused way too much by fucked up people.

[Jannes]

On 1.2.2024 at 4:45 PM, Miguel1 said:

It would be abused way too much by fucked up people.

What do you mean by fucked up people and how would they abuse the system?

[Yimpa]

36 minutes ago, Jannes said:

What do you mean by fucked up people and how would they abuse the system?

People who don’t know how to have deep sex with an intimate partner.

[Yimpa]

If ya constantly question whether or not you’re in love then chances are you ain’t.  You won’t deepen love by having sex with a committed partner only once or twice.

Think of it like a video game. You can fall in love with a game on the very first play, but it’ll require repeated plays to really feel that expansive love for the game.

Edited February 2 by Yimpa

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

People who don’t know how to have deep sex with an intimate partner.

I see. 

And I agree there must still be ways to communicate what you are looking for. Because there will be people looking for shallow sex and there will be people looking for something deeper and these people need to manage themselves. 

I think I need to further explain what I mean by free sex. I dont mean absolute free sex, just a bigger proportion of society being open for free sex so sexy people could always meet. So just imagine the system would be similar to the first world countries now just that there would be a higher percentage of promiscuity (especially at clubs and tinder.) Everyone could consensually bang in a shallow way or when they are tired of that look (and only look) for a deep connection in traditional ways. Everyone would get what they want, people who dont want deep connections dont need to lie and hurt others just to have sex and people who want a deep connection actually focus on that because there is no neediness lying to you (that you are in love with somebody when you are actually not so you can justify sleeping with somebody). 

 

I have a real life example for that. In Germany there is a super leftist sex positive club. People go (half) naked in there and there are tons of places to bang and people bang there all the time. Are clubs like these good or bad for society is what my post boils down to?

Edited February 2 by Jannes