Struggling Reading Ken Wilber

[Carl-Richard]

11 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Leo Gura Why the emphasis on mapping, models, stages?

Understanding the mind and the world conceptually.

Edited January 27 by Carl-Richard

[gettoefl]

when you're the best, you just vomit it down on paper, you will soon be dead, your audience will pay no matter what, who cares about an audience, you are lucky to be breathing my oxygen, i am writing what cannot be written and won't ever be written, read all my stuff before you even think about reading my latest else you are too late to the party to bother

[Davino]

@BlessedLion 

Try reading his first Magnus Opus Sex, Ecology, Spirituality: The Spirit of Evolution before going to his second. 

[Davino]

14 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

As a sidenote, Ken was influenced, among others, by Adi Da and Franklin Merrell-Wolff, which is interesting.

Adi Da is a Titan of Consciousness. He messed it up with his community though, which just made his teachings unpopular. Which just goes to say, how hard it is to manage people even though you may be a God-Head walking arround.

His teachings are rather advanced but just try to get his vibe and his process to guide someone. Another unsual thing about him is that in his last years he decided to talk as God or Consciousness itself, which also makes it even harder as you are used to listen to people talking from the standpoint of being a human, so you can misinterpret him as egotistical, when after many years he decided to be just authentic and talk like God. Well anyway, if you are interested it takes some time to get what he is saying and get used to his style. I've studied up to this point so many masters you wouldn't believe and I can say that Adi Da is an absolute Titan of Consciousnes. 

 

[eggopm3]

He's great but Religion of Tomorrow is probably the worst one to start with (and not one of his better books in general tbh, He rambles and repeats himself often, an editor could have cut the book in half and lost nothing). If I hadn't read a bunch of his others first RoT would have been impossible. If you want a big Wilber tome, read Sex Ecology Spirituality (and if you only want to read one of his books make it that one), otherwise just look at the page counts and start with some of the shorter more accessible ones.

Edited January 27 by eggopm3

[Yimpa]

God deceived itself by creating Ken Wilbur to help enlighten all you mortals 

[trenton]

@BlessedLion I had the same problem with the religion of tomorrow. It uses a lot of complicated models and it is easy to get confused. If there were examples being used, that would have made it easier.

[UnbornTao]

@Davino Yep, but worship the truth and not so much the deliverer!  

[UnbornTao]

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Understanding the mind and the world conceptually.

Would it be correct to rephrase that as "understanding concepts about the mind and the world"?

Edited January 28 by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, UnbornTao said:

So, understanding concepts about the mind and the world?

Yeah.

[Denys]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:21 AM, Yimpa said:

Bet you haven’t seen all of them. Now’s your chance to ketchup.

I've watched all of them, some for several times. Really waiting for more. 

 

Regarding Ken Willber: I notice that my understanding of his works goes in layes/degrees as I reread his books once in a while. 

[Davino]

9 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Davino Yep, but worship the truth and not so much the deliverer!  

The Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman

 

I have found many westerners to be allergic to connecting with God via a Guru form, due to conditioning as individualism and French Revolution hangover. I have no such restrictions, and I have found that it is a potent facet and tool for awakening that most people just miss. Which is funny because it is the way people have been historically awakening for millennia. The same way you catch a cold, you may easily catch glimpses by being near a high consciousness being.

[Water by the River]

On 27.1.2024 at 3:54 AM, UnbornTao said:

Is he enlightened?

Maybe you find Wilbers book "One Taste" interesting. On the topic of Enlightenment & awakened states, the entries start mainly from March 9th (it is a diary of one year).

[UnbornTao]

On 28/01/2024 at 11:06 AM, Water by the River said:

Maybe you find Wilbers book "One Taste" interesting. On the topic of Enlightenment & awakened states, the entries start mainly from March 9th (it is a diary of one year).

Thanks, might take a look.

@Carl-Richard But what is mind?  

@Davino Just a way to contrast the tendency to idolize the person, what you say can of course be helpful if done with care.

Edited January 29 by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

But what is mind?  

Whatever concepts, experience or awareness you have of it.

[UnbornTao]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Whatever concepts, experience or awareness you have of it.

We already conceive, experience and are aware of "mind", but that doesn't seem to provide access to its nature. The sentence boils down to "mind is mind".

It's a rhetorical question. Insight into what it is is what we should be after if understanding the thing itself is our goal.

Edited January 29 by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

51 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

We conceive, experience and are aware of "mind", but what is it?

Kinda rhetorical question as consciousness/insight into it might be what we're looking for.

It's what you're looking for if you're looking for that.

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's what you're looking for if you're looking for that.

If you're looking to understand what mind itself really is.

Edited January 29 by UnbornTao

[BlessedLion]

Thanks for all the input guys

 

Its starting to come together nicely now. As he re-runs the trail upward he comes back to topics over and over and it’s actually really helpful. Stuff that was confusing before makes more sense. 
 

That said it’s not hammock reading, I need to really focus and read slowly. Lots of interconnections happening. 
 

I think Ken himself is extremely developed and awake 
 

[Water by the River]

Chapter Dysfunctions of the 3rd-Tier Structure-Views, Violet Meta-Mind:

"One can step deeply enough into thetimeless Now to step into another dimension altogether—just step right here, and push hard.

It’s easy to get lost in those worlds, which are, at bottom, simply different dimensions and perspectives of one’s own (violet) consciousness (although, as noted, from another angle, they are all real, ontologically different realms because they are each genuinely co-enacted by a different perspective in consciousness). Given that this stage is the first great transition from “earthly” realms to “heavenly” realms (as a permanent structural enaction), getting lost in these “higher worlds” is indeed one of the most common dysfunctions of this level. The deeply transcendental, otherworldly, electrically visionary nature of consciousness at this altitude makes fixation to this side of the street an incredibly inviting and alluring venture. This is likely to couple with the dysfunction, discussed earlier, of standing in heaven and giving a blistering critique of life here on earth, with all the semiprophetic pomp and pomposity that  comes with it.

One of the things that often happens with these specific dysfunctions is that, after making some initial discovery of a timeless Now or pure Present (either in 3rd-tier structures or higher states), one can step into that Present and then step right through it into what seem to be endless, “deeper,” “higher” realms altogether, a kaleidoscopic cascade of universes upon universes that at one point seem to be nothing but a slight wiggle in this moment’s timeless Now, and then at the next explode into almost infinitely extending real realms that are all alive and invite exploration—with a sign on the door that says “Welcome to Heaven!” This is extremely common in high subtle and low causal states, but if it happens with structures, it tends to happen right here, with the violet meta-mind (due largely to its visionary nature).

... But this problem is simply the living result of the enactive nature of the real world and the fact that consciousness can co-create an almost endless number of universes, any number of which one can become fixated or semiaddicted to, with straightforwardly dysfunctional results."

An alien or two belong to the package.