What could be causing sudden exercise intolerance?

[Michael569]

3 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

twice by an NHS UK doctor

could you share the resuls here of your full blood count?, unless it is confidential info

Regarding that B12, what were the levels the very first time it was tested? What was your supplemental protocol before you were tested? What doses, how long and how often? And what type of administration (oral/sublingual/intravenal by GP etc) 

Any iron panel results? 

What was tested as a part of your thyroid profile? What markers specifically? What were the values? 

3 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

Omega 3.

Can you share a link to this particular test? What was it called? Did it say "serum" or "red cell" fatty acid profile? 

3 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

My BP, according to the one I use myself, sometimes goes down to 95-100 over 60/65

This might be hard to answer but would you say this is your common resting blood pressure? Do you have a family history of low blood pressure? (mom, dad, siblings).

Do you have a personal history if it?

Do you often experience diziness when standing up fast or hight heart rate without any stimulus? 

3 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

I thought hypoglycaemia may have been the issue, but I used a GM and my blood sugar always seems to be in normal ranges. I even went out for a walk on an empty stomach first thing in the morning, came back and it was 4.2.

yeah, that looks alright. Just curious, did you GP suggest HbA1C assessment? (long-term red blood cell glycation) 

3 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

My stomach issues - They tested me for celiac but nothing showed

What did they test exactly? Do you know what the marker was called? According to NICE there are possible variations in this and there are few rounds of tests when there is a risk of false negative that can be aplied. I assume they assessed only IgA Tissue TG (IgA tTG) ? Did they also look at Total IgA? 

What do you think about their stress hypothesis? Is there any chance you are experiencign panic attacks or mild anxiety attacks? 

3 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

But I'm hoping me being able to take a solid shit again now is due to my dietary changes

Did your bowel movements change significantly before? In what way? 

 

Few more questions

• work/life balance? 
• Sleep quality? 
• Are there stressors where you live impacting you? (personal, relationship, work, recent trauma etc) 
• any mould presence in the house? Poor ventilation? Excessive use of gas cooking? Very high proximity to busy roads? High levels of polution? Old carpets? Very old building? Recent or less recent floodings? 
• Would you say you are relatively sentive to strong smells or bright lights or loud sounds? 
• migraines? 

 

Edited February 28 by Michael569

[ZenAlex]

15 hours ago, Michael569 said:

could you share the resuls here of your full blood count?, unless it is confidential info

Regarding that B12, what were the levels the very first time it was tested? What was your supplemental protocol before you were tested? What doses, how long and how often? And what type of administration (oral/sublingual/intravenal by GP etc) 

Any iron panel results? 

What was tested as a part of your thyroid profile? What markers specifically? What were the values? 

Can you share a link to this particular test? What was it called? Did it say "serum" or "red cell" fatty acid profile? 

This might be hard to answer but would you say this is your common resting blood pressure? Do you have a family history of low blood pressure? (mom, dad, siblings).

Do you have a personal history if it?

Do you often experience diziness when standing up fast or hight heart rate without any stimulus? 

yeah, that looks alright. Just curious, did you GP suggest HbA1C assessment? (long-term red blood cell glycation) 

What did they test exactly? Do you know what the marker was called? According to NICE there are possible variations in this and there are few rounds of tests when there is a risk of false negative that can be aplied. I assume they assessed only IgA Tissue TG (IgA tTG) ? Did they also look at Total IgA? 

What do you think about their stress hypothesis? Is there any chance you are experiencign panic attacks or mild anxiety attacks? 

Did your bowel movements change significantly before? In what way? 

 

Few more questions

• work/life balance? 
• Sleep quality? 
• Are there stressors where you live impacting you? (personal, relationship, work, recent trauma etc) 
• any mould presence in the house? Poor ventilation? Excessive use of gas cooking? Very high proximity to busy roads? High levels of polution? Old carpets? Very old building? Recent or less recent floodings? 
• Would you say you are relatively sentive to strong smells or bright lights or loud sounds? 
• migraines? 

 

Hello. 

Do you have an email? I can send you all the blood tests via email if you want because there's a lot of them. It would take a long time to screenshot everything.

[ZenAlex]

Btw thank you to all you again for helping me, I know you don't have to. I feel guilty. 

[ZenAlex]

But to answer some of your question michael - 

Do you often experience diziness when standing up fast or hight heart rate without any stimulus? In regards to diziness when standing up, sometimes but it's more often when I get up and start walking aroud I notice it.. If I ever get symptoms like diziness/lightheadness it happens randomly or when walking. 

Heart rate high without stimulus - Yes this happens  I notice that if I've been walking more it happens. And since these issues started my heart rate by default has been higher than it was before. I actually notice sometimes my heart rate increases when I get up. My doctor just said it was likely anxiety. 

work/life balance? 35 hours per week, nothing strenuous. I'm actually off work sick for the first time in like 6 years.

Sleep quality? It has been impacted by these issues, I am waking up during the night almost every night, but I'm getting close to 7-8 hours 5-6 days a week, and I'm usually able to fall back to sleep, but before these issues I could fall out like a light and be asleep for 8+ hours fine. 

Are there stressors where you live impacting you? (personal, relationship, work, recent trauma etc)  Nothing. No trauma, no changes in life circumstances. 

any mould presence in the house? None that I can see

Poor ventilation? I keep my windows open as excess dust can impact my eyes, and of course I cannot open my windows as much during winter, but these symptoms started during the summer where i was outside a lot and my windows were always open.

Excessive use of gas cooking? All electric.

 Very high proximity to busy roads? High levels of polution? Sure I'm close to busy roads.

Old carpets? Very old building? Recent or less recent floodings? - My apartment was destroyed by a storm late 2021. I was living with parents from dec 2021-June 2023. My carpets were changed. The whole place was flooded, but it was dried out and everything was gutted, rewired and refurbished. 

Would you say you are relatively sentive to strong smells or bright lights or loud sounds? My sense of smell for a while has been not great. My appetite for about 10 years has been inconsistent. So I did have pre-existing issues, but I managed them and those symptoms existed for several years before these issues started. Bright lights and loud sounds don't bother me too much. 

migraines? No.

Edited February 29 by ZenAlex

[ZenAlex]

Also Michael regarding the stress analysis, I'm not sure. 

Is it possible it's all psychosomatic? Maybe, it just doesn't make sense that a lack of physical activity calms the symptoms right down, but exercise of any kind, even just walking makes the symptoms worse and it's the primary exacerbator. 

I understand exercise increases heart rate, but walking has always calmed me down before. I used to be awesome after a hike, now even just 1hr walks leaves me feeling considerably worse. 

I'd understand if it was high intensity exercise but this is just walking we're talking about here.

It never used to be this way. I am seeing a private psychologist now, but it just doesn't make sense for this all to be mental. 

[Jason Actualization]

On 2/28/2024 at 7:14 PM, ZenAlex said:

I stopped being vegan about a month ago now, still mostly plant based, but eating fish 3x a week + 1x other meat like chicken, 2x 2 eggs per week and milk.

Not nearly enough B12 my friend, is there something holding you back from consuming meat/milk/eggs daily, and incorporating beef specifically?

[ZenAlex]

On 01/03/2024 at 8:04 PM, Jason Actualization said:

Not nearly enough B12 my friend, is there something holding you back from consuming meat/milk/eggs daily, and incorporating beef specifically?

Eggs - Because the cholesterol levels are insane lol. I eat fish 3x per week and chicken 1x per week. I drink Milk daily, I also make sure to get a whole milk with 1ug of b12 per 100ml, and I drink tea so I'm trying to get in quite a bit of b12.

I personally just hate cooking that much, and am afraid of food poisoning if I get it wrong lol. 

 

[ZenAlex]

One thing I've noticed is I have thinning eyebrows, noticed thinning hair, and for several years had irritated eye lids. Thyroid seems ok on the tests.

Not sure if this is relevant @Michael569@Jason Actualization @undeather

Not sure what else to do now. I feel like I should spend more time trying to find answers, but it's difficult not to procrastinate when nothing is getting you anywhere lol. I don't know where else to go. 

 

[ZenAlex]

On 01/03/2024 at 8:04 PM, Jason Actualization said:

Not nearly enough B12 my friend, is there something holding you back from consuming meat/milk/eggs daily, and incorporating beef specifically?

I'm consuming meat which gives me a lot of b12 at least 4 times per week. My dairy milk contains 1ug of b12 per 100ml. Eggs twice a week. 

I'm getting way over the RDA every day on food.

[ZenAlex]

On 29/02/2024 at 10:18 AM, ZenAlex said:

But to answer some of your question michael - 

Do you often experience diziness when standing up fast or hight heart rate without any stimulus? In regards to diziness when standing up, sometimes but it's more often when I get up and start walking aroud I notice it.. If I ever get symptoms like diziness/lightheadness it happens randomly or when walking. 

Heart rate high without stimulus - Yes this happens  I notice that if I've been walking more it happens. And since these issues started my heart rate by default has been higher than it was before. I actually notice sometimes my heart rate increases when I get up. My doctor just said it was likely anxiety. 

work/life balance? 35 hours per week, nothing strenuous. I'm actually off work sick for the first time in like 6 years.

Sleep quality? It has been impacted by these issues, I am waking up during the night almost every night, but I'm getting close to 7-8 hours 5-6 days a week, and I'm usually able to fall back to sleep, but before these issues I could fall out like a light and be asleep for 8+ hours fine. 

Are there stressors where you live impacting you? (personal, relationship, work, recent trauma etc)  Nothing. No trauma, no changes in life circumstances. 

any mould presence in the house? None that I can see

Poor ventilation? I keep my windows open as excess dust can impact my eyes, and of course I cannot open my windows as much during winter, but these symptoms started during the summer where i was outside a lot and my windows were always open.

Excessive use of gas cooking? All electric.

 Very high proximity to busy roads? High levels of polution? Sure I'm close to busy roads.

Old carpets? Very old building? Recent or less recent floodings? - My apartment was destroyed by a storm late 2021. I was living with parents from dec 2021-June 2023. My carpets were changed. The whole place was flooded, but it was dried out and everything was gutted, rewired and refurbished. 

Would you say you are relatively sentive to strong smells or bright lights or loud sounds? My sense of smell for a while has been not great. My appetite for about 10 years has been inconsistent. So I did have pre-existing issues, but I managed them and those symptoms existed for several years before these issues started. Bright lights and loud sounds don't bother me too much. 

migraines? No.

@Michael569

Hey Michael, sorry to bother you as I know your life has been on top of you recently.

Can you provide any insight on the above? I answers your questions for you. Didn't want to pressure you as I know you're busy, any time you can take a lot of these, I would be very grateful  Thanks.

[ZenAlex]

@Michael569

@undeather

Hi. I've been continuing to look for answers, I've come across a potential answer here - 

Histamine Intolerance/Response.

For about 10 years now I've had issues with my sense of smell/blocked noses even though I don't have a cold or anything and feeling otherwise fine.

I do get rashes on my arms that go up and down.

Stingy/red eyelids

I know that exercise releases Histamines. Is it possible this could be an issue with histamine intolerance/response?

Could this issue I've had with exercise be because of this?

I've got a doc appt on monday, I'm mentioning the possibility of long covid, omega 3, SHBG to them, but could docs do a test for histamines?

Also Michal, I'm considering that test you told me about, I'm emailing my local phlebotomist, to see if they can do the test, will get back to you on that. 

[Michael569]

@ZenAlex

hey Alex, 

Based on everything you've said so far, the blood tests, the intolerance panel, the dry skin, the mood fluctuation and eye dryness seems to indicate that there is, potentially, something going on,  on the gut level. I can't say what it is, whether there is permeability issue, microbiome imbalance, inflammation or something else but it is possible that at least part of the answer is somewhere in there. 

There is, I think, also a more neurological component present as well. 

Histamine intolerance might be going on but that's usually a consequence of something else. The fact that so many foods show high in the IgG tests is a potential indicator of gut wall issue. But at the moment I'm just guessing as I don't know your full health history. You could take some experimental DAO and see if it helps - effectiveness of DAO in improving  symptoms can be an indication that histamine is causing an issue, maybe when present in excess (from high histamine foods in diet). At the same time I don't want to point you that direction so that you don't lose line of sight of everything else 

There could be an environmental allergy of some sort (some airborne particles, mould presence, dust-mites as somebody else indicated) and maybe all these things are now worse because you've been under more stress and your immune system has been slightly weakened as a consequence of... ??? something → (nutritional imbalance? low grade infection? unmanaged low grade stress - theory of limbic kindling??) - hard to say. 

Undeather might have a broader perspective on this. 

The SHBG while interesting, could be a red herring because your testosterone is, at least based on standard levels, not out of balance. SHBG could also fluctuate with respect to lifestyle, diet, stress levels and other. 

I'm again being deliberately vague because I can't diagnose you and I don't know your health history, only the bits nd pieces you shared. 

Edited March 27 by Michael569

[tezk]

Just going to throw this in here, but many people with POIS have additional intolerances tied into the condition, which include both exercise and food intolerances. I think POIS is caused by some kind of infection and I have a feeling your condition may share a similar pathology. I've personally had the most success in treating this condition with methylation nutrients and replenishing any other nutrient deficiencies. You could try SAM-e, B vitamins (especially the most important methyl donors being B12, folate, & B6), choline, eggs, red meat, etc and see if you feel better. Minerals are also very important for the smooth operation of methylation. I take Shilajit & magnesium which have further improved my condition. 

Your symptoms are also very typical to that of what POIS sufferers experience - and long-covid, which I believe all share the same pathology... fatigue and mental symptoms - anxiety, etc. Not saying you have POIS, but the pathology may be similar.

If you decide to try this, please let me know how you go!

Edited March 30 by tezk

[ZenAlex]

On 30/03/2024 at 0:50 PM, tezk said:

Just going to throw this in here, but many people with POIS have additional intolerances tied into the condition, which include both exercise and food intolerances. I think POIS is caused by some kind of infection and I have a feeling your condition may share a similar pathology. I've personally had the most success in treating this condition with methylation nutrients and replenishing any other nutrient deficiencies. You could try SAM-e, B vitamins (especially the most important methyl donors being B12, folate, & B6), choline, eggs, red meat, etc and see if you feel better. Minerals are also very important for the smooth operation of methylation. I take Shilajit & magnesium which have further improved my condition. 

Your symptoms are also very typical to that of what POIS sufferers experience - and long-covid, which I believe all share the same pathology... fatigue and mental symptoms - anxiety, etc. Not saying you have POIS, but the pathology may be similar.

If you decide to try this, please let me know how you go!

Well I've been on nofap for several years. I'm not saying I've never jerked off since then, but I've not jerked off to any porn in about 5 months now. And when I do do it, it's usually just several times in the space of 1-2 days, then I stop and I'm done for another several months.

I have noticed that for about 7-8 years whenever I jerk off my mood is fucked for about a week, but that was it, just my mood. I didn't feel sick/ill or anything. 

But these symptoms with exercise and my newest symptoms have only been here for about 7 months now. 

I've eaten a healthy diet for a long time now. My tests show no obvious deficiencies. I'm eating eggs, cows milk, fish, chicken etc. 

The weird thing is I do get mental and physical symptoms after physical activity, but I don't feel flu like symptoms and I don't feel that fatigued.

It's more like an exaggerated stress response to physical activity and stimuli.

[Yousif]

sometimes it’s not your biology that’s the issue, but the times and issues that we’re going through as a society at a collective level, which I think why it gets better when you’re meditating, because meditation takes you out of human problems and bullshit.

 

even if you’re %100 biologically healthy, if you lived during WW2 chances are that those times are filled with horror and anxiety. 
 

[Yousif]

It could be because of many external factors, not just biological. 

[ZenAlex]

@undeather

@Michael569

@Leo Gura

Yo guys. Do you guys have any advice on these two things I'm considering? - 

1. Taking an Anti-histamine. I've ordered a DAO test offline, I know some people don't agree with it, but I'll see what it says. I'm not gonna do a low histamine or elimination diet yet, especially not without consulting a doctor after getting some indication it is a histamine issue, but do you reckon taking an AH would be a decent indicator? Any potential negatives/side effects to taking an AH if I have no histamine issues?

2. Fasting. I was considering a fast to see if it changes anything. I have seen a success story where someone literally got rid of their Long Covid symptoms 90% with a fast and then did Keto immediately after. It seems to have had massive benefits for them. Any advice on fasting?

Thanks guys, 

[Michael569]

On 04/04/2024 at 3:29 PM, ZenAlex said:

1. Taking an Anti-histamine. I've ordered a DAO test offline, I know some people don't agree with it, but I'll see what it says. I'm not gonna do a low histamine or elimination diet yet, especially not without consulting a doctor after getting some indication it is a histamine issue, but do you reckon taking an AH would be a decent indicator? Any potential negatives/side effects to taking an AH if I have no histamine issues?

If the AH helps, it would be an indicator enough. It is important not to take it when you're testing for DAO, as it could skew the results.The evidence on DAO as a marker of histamine issue is still debated https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10346277/ but it might at least show you which direction to aim 

On 04/04/2024 at 3:29 PM, ZenAlex said:

Fasting. I was considering a fast to see if it changes anything. I have seen a success story where someone literally got rid of their Long Covid symptoms 90% with a fast and then did Keto immediately after. It seems to have had massive benefits for them. Any advice on fasting?

Fasting can temporarily get rid of your symptoms if they are caused by your digestive tract simply through the removal of triggers. In such case it could be useful to help you zoom in to the root of the issue.

But starving yourself may not be sufficient enough to 'cure' this thing, whatever it is. I don't like to use fasting as a therapeutic long-term tool because of how catabolic it is and how stressful it is to the body.

It tends to be used as an avoidance tool for people who have eating disorders (e.g. " I have a food phobia so I just won't eat anything convincing myself that fasting is good for me even tho I'm slowly turning myself into a skeleton"). 

And so, although it can be a good temporary strategy while seeking out the root cause of your symptoms, I wouldn't approach it as a long-term solution. Same with most elimination diets. 

Did you get the results of that fatty acid profile back, Alex? 

Edited April 8 by Michael569

[tezk]

On 01/04/2024 at 8:50 PM, ZenAlex said:

Well I've been on nofap for several years. I'm not saying I've never jerked off since then, but I've not jerked off to any porn in about 5 months now. And when I do do it, it's usually just several times in the space of 1-2 days, then I stop and I'm done for another several months.

I have noticed that for about 7-8 years whenever I jerk off my mood is fucked for about a week, but that was it, just my mood. I didn't feel sick/ill or anything. 

But these symptoms with exercise and my newest symptoms have only been here for about 7 months now. 

I've eaten a healthy diet for a long time now. My tests show no obvious deficiencies. I'm eating eggs, cows milk, fish, chicken etc. 

The weird thing is I do get mental and physical symptoms after physical activity, but I don't feel flu like symptoms and I don't feel that fatigued.

It's more like an exaggerated stress response to physical activity and stimuli.

You would qualify for POIS based on what I'm reading here. Here's an interesting question: are the mood disturbances following ejaculation similar in nature to those that follow exercise? If they are, then I wouldn't rule out that this exercise intolerance isn't related to POIS. And if that's the case, it wouldn't hurt to experiment with some of the classic POIS treatments and see if they work for you - I know you obviously have many other avenues to explore as well, maybe it is completely unrelated. But as for any weird chronic disease, it's really just a matter of relentlessly testing everything and picking up the clues along the way.

[ZenAlex]

21 hours ago, Michael569 said:

If the AH helps, it would be an indicator enough. It is important not to take it when you're testing for DAO, as it could skew the results.The evidence on DAO as a marker of histamine issue is still debated https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10346277/ but it might at least show you which direction to aim 

Fasting can temporarily get rid of your symptoms if they are caused by your digestive tract simply through the removal of triggers. In such case it could be useful to help you zoom in to the root of the issue.

But starving yourself may not be sufficient enough to 'cure' this thing, whatever it is. I don't like to use fasting as a therapeutic long-term tool because of how catabolic it is and how stressful it is to the body.

It tends to be used as an avoidance tool for people who have eating disorders (e.g. " I have a food phobia so I just won't eat anything convincing myself that fasting is good for me even tho I'm slowly turning myself into a skeleton"). 

And so, although it can be a good temporary strategy while seeking out the root cause of your symptoms, I wouldn't approach it as a long-term solution. Same with most elimination diets. 

Did you get the results of that fatty acid profile back, Alex? 

Hi Michal, thank you so much for getting back to me.

It took me a while to get a phlebotomist in my area, and delivery was delayed due to bank holiday.

I've got a mobile phlebotomist coming to my apartment today to take it and I'll UPS it today also, and it should be with them by end of week, and turn around time is up to 12 working days so may have to wait a bit of time.

I've took the DAO test today also, they're currently sitting drying on the cards and I'll be mailing them today also. 

My GP ordered a fasting blood test that I did this morning at 8.30. It was testing for cortisol, SHBG/Testosterone (told her about my other test), adrenal stuff, thyroid recheck. 

I'll be probably taking a sublingual b12 supp soon but I'm anxious about starting it before I've finished all my blood tests just in case it impacts it and also concerned always about side effects of high dose supps. Will see what happens then.

So yeah, lots of testing going on lol. 

As part of my IgG food intolerance test (sceptical) and IgE allergy test, I had a free consultation with a nutritional therapist yesterday, she advised to try and get my b12 levels above 500, and also to look into - Cortisol dysregulation - Cortisol saliva test (was considering this but will see what the GP test comes back at first). Research HPA Axis etc.