why I'm a fucking loser, respected by no one ?

[Ramzi08]

the problem is in the title, I am not respected neither by my friends (which I do not have) nor by my acquaintances.
no one seems to be interested in talking with me. Every time I start a discussion with someone on social media, they either Ghost me, left me on "seen" or don't restart the discussion and respond dryly. This stuff happened to me 7 or 8 times with 7 or 8 different people in just 3 or 4 months!
What I really don't understand is that there are people who are much less interesting than me, and much more shy than me, who manage to find a social circle and be respected.
The only person I consider a "friend" is a girl I haven't managed to seduce and who kept me in the friendzone.

If you have any ideas to suggest to me, go ahead.

[Rigel]

People have lives and the world doesn't revolve around you. It could be that they don't respect you if they leave you on seen. Or it could be a million other reasons and your neurotic mind is contextualizing the situation as a lack of respect in order to feel sorry for itself.

Notice how paradoxical it is that complaining about not having friends is the thing making it harder for you to make friends. Maybe you don't complain outright to other people but if you feel that way towards yourself it's gonna seep out of you and make your vibe not fun to be exposed to.

16 minutes ago, Ramzi08 said:

What I really don't understand is that there are people who are much less interesting than me, and much more shy than me, who manage to find a social circle and be respected.

That is a nasty vibe to be around for sane people. Jealousy is nasty.

"I am so much better, why do they have it better than me?" That's how you sound.

Humble yourself and be genuinely interested in other people without needing them to be interested in you, then they'll be interested. If you truly think of yourself that you are an interesting person and don't need others to say it in order to feel that way, you will have fun and people will be drawn to you. And if they don't, you won't care.

Not everyone will jive with you, even if you are socially calibrated very well. So bear that in mind. There are people that just don't want you in their life and you shouldn't want those people around either.

[NoSelfSelf]

Easy answer for complicated topic is that you dont have game(dont know yourself) and you dont respect yourself ,so everyone will respect you to a level you respect yourself.

Nobody respecting himself would be a friend with a girl he wants.

Also discussing anything with people you never disagree or start a debat if you need to do that you just say: "i see this thing differently" and give your opinion...

[meta_male]

2 hours ago, Ramzi08 said:

I am not respected neither by my friends (which I do not have) 

This is the perfect example of how you're creating a story about yourself that has nothing to do with reality, you're expecting people not to respect you because you know you have no respect for yourself.

I recommend you look into IFS therapy and find out where you're limiting beliefs come from.

[SeaMonster]

22 hours ago, Ramzi08 said:

the problem is in the title, I am not respected neither by my friends (which I do not have) nor by my acquaintances.

Wait...wut?

I would suggest you make some real friends first...unless I am misinterpreting this.  Either you have friends or you don't, you can't be disrespected by nonexisting friends.

[Ulax]

maybe complex ptsd

[BlueOak]

A couple of things stand out. @Ramzi08

Self Focus

1, You are very hard on yourself, your inner critic is most prominent when talking about this subject. Go a bit easier on yourself. Focus on others more in balance with yourself.

Respect

2, What does respect mean to you? As I feel it could mean something very different to me. So getting that into the conversation will help, and conveying that to those you interact with, will help your life immeasurably. 

Respect of an acquaintance to me means a certain level of civility and respecting the boundaries of a social contract, say in a business respecting we are colleagues at work under a set of rules. Or on this forum trying to follow the rules. Beyond that, often it takes you telling people your boundaries before they can be respected, outside of say a company policy or law, which they should already know. People don't inherently have the same value sets or beliefs as you. When you've told them, then you can decide whether they are respectful or not.

For a friend, it would be more organic, because there is more trust there. I certainly, and I believe others, accept a friend violating those boundaries to a certain extent, because we have a closer relationship, and we can trust that they are doing it because they are our friend. Not all friends are healthy like this to have, but assuming they believe they are doing so for your own good or the good of your friendship, a certain amount of crossing those boundaries is usually allowed. One of the marked differences between an acquaintance and a friend.

Social circles

3, Perceiving others have larger social circles.

Do you honestly just want a large social circle? Because you can study how to be charismatic for example. Lots of speakers will teach you that in body language or speech. It doesn't mean deep connections or even mutual respect, it just means that person is charismatic. In business for example, it means starting things yourself, getting passionate about them, and people are drawn to that openness and excitement to be part of something.

Let's give you one big tip. Stop being hard on yourself, start having a positive attitude no matter what is going on. If you just want a larger social circle, be positive. Compliment others, be supportive to them. Stop thinking about yourself so much and start thinking about them. This is somewhat a facade, but i'll continue below.

Again this is just a way to attract others into your life, as your focus is no longer on yourself, its on them instead. It doesn't guarantee anything more than what I just said, a social circle, it doesn't mean deep friendships or meaningful connection, those take effort, honesty, and work. In your communication and behaviors. A further step beyond just charisma, would be you start thinking of the relationship itself, how you relate to them, and how you can improve yourself to better relate to them. You don't only think of them and you, you think of us, them, and you. Try with these posts, try to relate to the opinions expressed, and step outside yourself for a moment.

Attraction

Attraction happens for all kinds of reasons. You can absolutely be friends with someone you are attracted to. @NoSelfSelf In fact, that might be the very reason for the attraction, but there are an infinite amount of other reasons for attraction that we are unconsciously not aware of until it becomes visible. I agree on the torture of having someone you are sexually attracted to, and have been in the proximity of to feel that, as a friend. One you can never be with romantically, and harboring the thought that one day you could have that romance, is very unhealthy and often manipulative. If you can accept the relationship for what it is, however, and not what you want it to be, it can be like any healthy relationship.
 

Edited January 15, 2024 by BlueOak

[NoSelfSelf]

@BlueOak So i understand like if women are in social setting,or in mutual activity setting you interact hang out,but i never understood like why would you hang out with a woman like grab drinks and hear her talk about problems she's having with guys shes dealing with or pick the gift for valentines day what is the point of it.?

Like to me it shows you need that psychological human needs from a woman to conpensate for the lack of being a man.

Since you are well spoken in writing explain i dont get it...

Edited January 15, 2024 by NoSelfSelf

[BlueOak]

26 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@BlueOak So i understand like if women are in social setting,or in mutual activity setting you interact hang out,but i never understood like why would you hang out with a woman like grab drinks and hear her talk about problems she's having with guys shes dealing with or pick the gift for valentines day what is the point of it.?

Like to me it shows you need that psychological human needs from a woman to conpensate for the lack of being a man.

Since you are well spoken in writing explain i dont get it...

@NoSelfSelf
What's the point of any relationship you have with anyone or anything? If you can answer why that relationship is there, then you can understand it. Pick anyone in your life to think about this with, family, friends, enemies, acquaintances, your boss. Your job, your house, your business, this forum, your country, your community, your anger, your sadness. Everything is a relationship, with you relating to it.

I have in the past had women I've related to through a hobby, or education, or a job and developed a friendship with them, then like you, I would talk about a topic. Me replying to your post, is not much different for me, to a woman talking about her relationship with X. For me this comes about because I enjoy relating to different things, I understand I attract that response because I like understanding things and then contributing. Really basic and simple motivation for me, in return I understand each interaction shapes and grows my awareness. I get a gift, paid up front, through these interactions to then share with someone else or in my own life.

If you consider listening to a woman talk about her problems a waste of time, then sure. No judgment here. I consider someone talking about sports, a waste of time often. I'll indulge it socially or in passing for the spirit of the moment, to be entertained, or if I want someone to feel good that they were listened to. Personally, I would never be at the bar, or pining over someone who wasn't interested in me, I'd be saying NEXT if I was looking for a girl. (There's billions of them out there).

But friendships with people are something I miss if I am honest, being there for someone else, for no other reason than they needed it. I live in a lot of isolation currently, I remember friendship fondly. I'd not be caring what the topic was. if it concerned them, as their friend, it would concern me. I made a lot of friends that way growing up. That's because I do that with regular people too, like you here, listening to you and trying to find something that helps.

See the Six human needs:

Teal Swan: https://tealswan.com/resources/articles/relationships-and-the-six-human-needs
or
Tony Robbins: https://www.tonyrobbins.com/mind-meaning/do-you-need-to-feel-significant/

I have a need for contribution. I have always had it. For me, its below certainty (sadly), but central to how I think. These needs are in different priorities depending on the person and the subject in their lives.

Edited January 15, 2024 by BlueOak

[lizz_luna]

It was clear to me after reading the first sentence. You clearly do not respect yourself-others are a clear mirror and reflection. Observe the mirror and what is telling you, every person that disrespects you, is simply a mirror of how you disrespect yourself. Once you start pointing it back at you and the ways in which you do that to yourself, the reflection, the mirror and the people around you will change.

Start with not calling yourself a "fucking loser", people can sense that energy miles away.

[NoSelfSelf]

@BlueOak For me the relationship is me sharing the type of relationship i have with myself,so if my standars is i must grow every day, then that person will grow by being with me and then based on that other person chooses what will they do with it and how i set it up,but that depth wont hit with a female friend because im not going to share it with just anyone.

That doesnt answer my queastion whats the point  just to relate? I have better things to do like figuring out myself for example..

You are not "just there" because they need it that's delusion, you have motives you are not aware of them, that's why i said person seeking female friends is guided by his mind and emotions just because which is not really self actualizing way of living...

Im not 100% sure if i get you since is complete opposite of how i operate..

[BlueOak]

@NoSelfSelf

How can you understand yourself, without understanding how you relate to yourself?

Whatever aspect or representation I am of you - to you, changes the conversation naturally, based on how you relate to it. You define who I am in your mind, and then relate to yourself. You could choose to relate to that female friend, in any way you like, and choose any meaning for the interaction. That's your choice, that's the aspect of yourself you are putting forward and giving meaning to. Understanding why you choose what you do is critical to knowing yourself.

True it depends on your awareness as to how much you understand or can perceive in the interaction. Its also practice. Anyone can do this, focus on their relationships to understand themselves.

Of the six human needs, your most prominent need would be growth/expansion then? It sounds like we share certainty as a prominent need. If we were completely polar opposites, I doubt we could be in this conversation. Only through the reflection of total opposites would we interact briefly. What happens in most conversations is, as we connect with that part of ourselves, our language and discussion is shaped and structured by our relationship to that aspect of ourselves.

I have growth/expansion as a need but much reduced. I find it through understanding others/myself and relating to concepts that are presented in my mind that structure reality. Indirectly I grow and expand by how I relate to the outside world. Though it is definitely secondary, for me, to certainty (gained by understanding) in most things.

Its not delusional to think infinity is an ongoing pattern that puts you in events over and over until you gain realisation of them. I've had so many examples of that beyond counting, as all life operates in a pattern. You are in this conversation for a reason now. I don't know what it is, I am not in your head. I've told you what my motivations are. Contribution, Certainty (understanding), and indirectly growth. Sure there will be others I am unaware of, next week I might need whatever insight I gained here for example, someone else might gain insight by reading this convo.

What are your motivations and reasons for talking here? Are you conscious of them?

[Raze]

https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-be-respected-men-and-women-alike
 

https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-demand-respect-others-pt-1-self-everything
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v27hvRrfps4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnqOxQBdqc0

 

Edited January 15, 2024 by Raze

[Yimpa]

Content vs. Structure.

You may simply be in the wrong structure. Don’t continue convincing any content of that, though. 

 

Don’t judge yourself harshly, though. What was once the right structure for us no longer is valid, like clothing you outgrow after adolescence. The clothing isn’t the problem, so no need to yell at your socks for not fitting.

[NoSelfSelf]

@BlueOak I mean everyone makes their own understanding of how they gonna understand themselves ,but to get there you need to learn game,you cant truly understand yourself before that because like you are saying you cant understand yourself because mind is literally design to block you from understanding yourself,on deeper level it only allow superficial level and like you said through relating to things like: world is number 1 you number 2,so world decides the framework for you to think in...if world says this is how it is then you can only think based how they set it up...

 

I can see that im relating to you based on how i see you, but i also see that the way i see you is again the way i think in general,so it has nothing to do with you but me.With that logic like you said you only relate to yourself then express it to the outside,thats precisely what game is but mind is blocking it all the time..(with reacting and thinking your thinking is based on the outside while its just your world reacting to what actually is.)

Okay then i dont see the meaning and the point of female friend thats the thing in the first place why i started to talk to you because i dont see the point yet.(im open to someone change my perspective,im not stuck in my ways but only if you present something i havent thought about for a longer periods of time and i saw in my direct experience its hurting me, usually people present me Pov that i had for long time, dropped it and now telling me thats the way but i saw its not for me.)

Thats a good point why you choose the action and create the meaning from it shows you who you are.

Good that you say that your growth need is reduced since relating to the world is truly limited way to understand yourself, if you dont go meta with it so its you who creates the meaning of the world its like you are 50/50 to what im saying.

Yes im aware, i talk on here because when i talk and think by writing or talking out loud, i say things that i cant with just thinking, so its a way to hear myself talk so i gain self knowledge.

And sometimes like one in a blue moon someone will say something to make me think but its so rare so i use this like a way to talk to myself...

Edited January 15, 2024 by NoSelfSelf

[BlueOak]

@NoSelfSelf

I'll go micro first then macro.

You can choose whatever the friendship with the girl means to you.

If you choose its useless, who am I to say otherwise?
If you choose it has value, who am I to say otherwise?

(This is what I should have started with lol but perhaps the journey here was necessary)

Why could it have value. I like friendships. I like being part of something. I feel good with close friends around. I feel bad being isolated. I feel bad now with no friends. I like helping people because it makes me feel good, and if that's a girl sat at a bar going through a tough time, then that's what it is that day. If that's a forum with a guy struggling with relationships, that's what it is that day. If we boil it down further to simplicity, we all search for love, because we are love. That is a strong need inside of us, connection, and although I don't have it as strongly as many, it is still there.

1, Can you expand what you mean by going meta? 
2, Can you expand what you mean by game?

Who told you mind has to be a block? I understand it, but that's just one way to view it.
I view it as a perceptual lens to allow subjective consciousness to exist.

Meaning you can create the perspective of distance from yourself for observation, otherwise you would just be everything, not observing it. Your mind can change greatly over your lifetime if you want it to. Its mallable like clay. I often feel heavy energetic activity in my mind as it changes or reforms rapidly.

The world is you. So of course YOU decide the framework you are in. You are the thing being observed, the framework, the distance, the observer. The [1 (space) 2] is designed so you have a chance to observe yourself.

Let's try to break down any blocks towards relationships or relating:

You can say you are all things.
You can say you are relating to a part of yourself.
You can say nothing exists.
You can say you are the pattern of the relationship inside infinity - I'll pick this one it sounds cool.
You say whatever you like, and it'll still be.

As we can never understand infinity (its infinitely complex) Instead what many of us do to have certainty is maintain structured patterns inside infinity, we then look at those patterns and say that's how this functions. Constantly being updated with new conditions to observe.
 

Edited January 15, 2024 by BlueOak

[NoSelfSelf]

@BlueOak https://youtu.be/d618g59NbSU?si=P1lWnY0p2Nx7LFQm

This is game so student is seeing karate as being kicks and punches from his weak perspective, but karate comes from depth of who you are its about you connected to yourself so your mindsets drives the punch.

Same way game in dating context you see a woman and now you cant approach, dont know what to say because you are basically operating based on the outside thing that blocks you to connect to yourself ,but when you do connect to yourself you will see that you actually dont know yourself dont know how to be authentic etc. I can make a strong claim you cant relate to people without manipulating,  you are just letting things happen spontanousily based on your weak programming thats not you its imposed,s o you have no relationship with yourself so thats why feelings and world will drive your thinking and your actions, you are its puppet.

Meta means you look the mind from 3rd perspective like you in a movie theater then you decide what to think not mind manipulating to tell you what to think.

I saw for myself that mind is constantly manipulating me thats why you cant grow because its dictating how its going to be.

Yeah you can say that but if feelings drives you you are not the one making the framework to operate in.

Edited January 15, 2024 by NoSelfSelf

[BlueOak]

@NoSelfSelf

Are you aware the mind gradually transcends itself to become infinity in every interaction it has? If that is our goal. The blocks you see are dissolved when they are realised and understood to be hindering. Although my preference for certainty does limit me, it doesn't stop the process., just like my self-analysis speeds it up. Feelings slowly lose the reason for being generated independently due to triggers or programmed responses,  instead, they come about more from our own wishes, and we trend toward stillness or love. (There is a conflict within me whether its stillness or love).

Either way I like helping people. I just do. Its better than not doing or harming them. 

I do go meta as you say. I am not thinking through everything I tell you on an intellectual level, its a stream of consciousness. Sometimes I'll go back and edit something, which is the conscious mind stepping in directly.

I find I can go meta through the mind also.

Ex: I am writing at the minute, and I find myself freezing up. Its an old trauma from somewhere about starting a novel, so I decided to write what the freeze felt like into the story, dissolving it. This was a mind/meta moment.

Game I am struggling with more. To me the punches/kicks are part of the game you describe, so it seems like splitting hairs. Without the training you can't do the sport. I did Karate for many years as a kid, the strict framework requires a strict conditioned mindset, especially the Kata (sequence of moves). The sparring was different, there was more room for expression free of conditioning. - I was knocked out of the national championships by a double-flying kick mid air one year!  Best moment. Do you know why I liked it more? The people. The team in the stands watching, my sensei flat to the mat being part of it giving me advice, being connected and part of that whole day with all of them, cheering on their efforts, the bus ride with them all there and back. 

These six human needs are not just conditioned responses that happened to come about, they are fundamentally built into who and what we are. You are not separate from those around you, and these needs model that, they are the reasons/driving forces of our human existence.

Edited January 15, 2024 by BlueOak

[TheGod]

On 14/01/2024 at 5:13 AM, Ramzi08 said:

the problem is in the title, I am not respected neither by my friends (which I do not have) nor by my acquaintances.
no one seems to be interested in talking with me. Every time I start a discussion with someone on social media, they either Ghost me, left me on "seen" or don't restart the discussion and respond dryly. This stuff happened to me 7 or 8 times with 7 or 8 different people in just 3 or 4 months!
What I really don't understand is that there are people who are much less interesting than me, and much more shy than me, who manage to find a social circle and be respected.
The only person I consider a "friend" is a girl I haven't managed to seduce and who kept me in the friendzone.

If you have any ideas to suggest to me, go ahead.

I have some good advice for you because I used to be in your shoes. 

I used to seek people's approval and respect. 

The problem is you've given away your own authority and you are needy. 

The solution is very hard and takes years of  inner work. To put it in one word - solitude. 

Why do you want others to respect you? Why their respecting you is so important? Why don't you respect yourself even if no-one respects you? You need to learn how to set up proper external and internal boundaries. 

Also, why do you think that some people are less or more interesting than you. How do you know that your interests are superior or inferior to those of others?