Meeting your Dark Self. Alan Watts & Carl Jung

[Davino]

I can't express how profound this one lecture has been for me. The psychedelic might have helped but this is spot on

[Ishanga]

This is just intellect dividing things up more and more, making things more complex and such. We are not talking about Spirituality here on this forum, we are talking around it, because language and communication comes from intellect, logic of which is a foundation of intellect, so intellect divides and separates, dark side this, light side that, sub concsious, unconscious, that lables and divides are just there for us to explain, which is intellectual, so that one listening and reading/watching can get curious, on the intellectual level. Most all of Humanity nowadays are highly intellectual, very much into their thoughts, emotions, internal philosophies about themselves and life, none of it is reality, reality is Your Alive, the sun has risen, the atmosphere is provided 02, your able to access the librarys of the world, and your still anxious, depressed, but if those things can happen within You at levels of intensity, so can Happiness, and Bliss, at the same levels of experience and intensity, so make the choice, that is Human Nature, Free Will, make the choice as to how You want to be, don't go searching for Dark Side, Light Side Ego or Super Ego complexes it just gets you further away...

[Davino]

@Ishanga I'm sorry to tell you, that you couldn't be more wrong.

You are just naive and juvenile in your awakening approach, there are levels to this game beyond what sadhguru can tell you. Let your path mature a few good years and you will come to realize what was said in the video. Maybe your shadow was triggered by it...

The shadow is not just a cute concept, it's a very deep and unavoidable facet of the awakening proccess. Shadow work by it's nature cannot be accessed through yoga or meditation, making it of special importance to be done by spiritual seekers. This was just discovered 100 years ago, that's why your spiritual traditions don't teach it, because they just didn't have the data to know it. Thanks to the works of Carl Jung and Ken Willber now we have seen an important missing piece of the puzzle, just to be gaslighted by ignorant people that don't know any better. Sorry for being harsh but you should really reconsider posting when you don't know what the shadow is. As a rule of thumb, just try not to post when you don't know what you are talking about. I've seen you doing this a few times and people can see through that, this is not just a regular forum, so please be more mindful and conscious about your comments.

[Yimpa]

Consider that you can be so Awake that even Donald Trump is Awake.

So is Joe Biden.

Now that’s a tough pill to swallow.

[Davino]

7 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Consider that you can be so Awake that even Donald Trump is Awake.

So is Joe Biden.

Now that’s a tough pill to swallow.

That's peanuts to swallow!

Your shadow is hard to swallow.

Most people try to bring more light to the light

There is a point where you bring the light to your darkness and demons

Then everything changes

[Ishanga]

37 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Ishanga I'm sorry to tell you, that you couldn't be more wrong.

You are just naive and juvenile in your awakening approach, there are levels to this game beyond what sadhguru can tell you. Let your path mature a few good years and you will come to realize what was said in the video. Maybe your shadow was triggered by it...

The shadow is not just a cute concept, it's a very deep and unavoidable facet of the awakening proccess. Shadow work by it's nature cannot be accessed through yoga or meditation, making it of special importance to be done by spiritual seekers. This was just discovered 100 years ago, that's why your spiritual traditions don't teach it, because they just didn't have the data to know it. Thanks to the works of Carl Jung and Ken Willber now we have seen an important missing piece of the puzzle, just to be gaslighted by ignorant people that don't know any better. Sorry for being harsh but you should really reconsider posting when you don't know what the shadow is. As a rule of thumb, just try not to post when you don't know what you are talking about. I've seen you doing this a few times and people can see through that, this is not just a regular forum, so please be more mindful and conscious about your comments.

I thnk if Your looking for any sort of psycoanalysis then on that level you may be correct, but Spirituality, or Higher Consciousness which is what this section of the Forum is about, is not psycoanalysis, its not about trying to fix Your Mind/Thinking/Thought process and become a good citizen that goes to work regularly, doesn't cause societal problems, pays taxes on time and lower stress and simple feeling of wellbeing, Spirituality is about none of that, because Mind is not You, these thoughts we are expressing here are not us, are basically meaningless, its just a sharing platform and a simple starting point for those interested to go further in their lives than where they are now. Spirituality is about Your Potential, Living beyond Mind and Body, experiencing the Miracle that happens every moment within You and everything alive, Free Will and so forth. I have no need to argue or debate, we each have an Understanding and Path to follow so too each their own...

Edited January 16 by Ishanga

[Davino]

12 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Spirituality is about Your Potential, Living beyond Mind and Body, experiencing the Miracle that happens every moment within You and everything alive,

Agree to some extent. Do you know what is the biggest bottleneck for doing that? Shadow work

After some point you get that it is not about making the light brighter but about bringing the light to your darkness, to your unconscious, to your demons, to your traumas, to your own disgust and shit. Till that point, the work is just juvenile, profound surely, but hasn't matured yet, hasn't finished the first major full circles of the path.

There are many facets to this diamond. The 3 biggest are Awakening, Shadow & Ego Development/Maturation. Wake up, Clean up, Grow up. This goes in microcycles and macrocycles

But whatever, let's agree to disagree.

[Ishanga]

@Davino To put it simply, the shadow, the unconscious mind, the unknown and making it come into knowing, you do this by not going into it, but by going beyond it. Any sort of recollection or review of past, which all that stuff is based off of is unnecessary, unless You are not at the point where Spiritual Sadhana has an impact on you. Peace is 0 on the scale of empowering emotions or states of Being, Ecstasy is 10, for anything below Peace one is not in a stable enough place for spiritual sadhana, if someone is not at a point where during their days there is no sense of Peace, it is akin to someone in a deep intense search for food, there's no point in talking about Spirituality to ppl in this condition, first they have to find food, or Peace in this context. When someone is so messed up in their mind stuff then spirituality is not yet for them, first get that right, get to a stable platform of Peace. In Sadhguru's Inner Engineering course, there are many tools for one to get to a point of Peace, via Acceptence and Response Ability and other tools learned in the first 6 lesson, and when that is gained then one can begin a spiritual path per say, until then, its all mind work, ego discovery and things of this nature which imo are not real or true spiritual work, just as we are not talking about Spirituality here, we are talking around it. 

Think what You want about Sadhguru and what he is or is not, at least he admits all the talking, interviews and events are circus, as well at least he shares methods and technologies for one to get to a point of gradual Realization, whereas Leo, Watts, Tolle, Spira and many others just talk, their whole game is talking, if your into talking and think this is the be all end all then good luck:)

 

[Davino]

On 17/1/2024 at 3:40 PM, Ishanga said:

you do this by not going into it, but by going beyond it

Congratulations, that's the facet of awakening!

On 17/1/2024 at 3:40 PM, Ishanga said:

Any sort of recollection or review of past, which all that stuff is based off of is unnecessary,

It is not recollection of the past, if you are bleeding from a cut right now you heal yourself that is all simple. It may be of some use to know how it happened and all of that but the point is in the now dealing with your shadow as it manifest or triggering it and what comes dealing with it. You are certainly not going to nondual out the shadow, because they are different facets to the work. You may be too engrossed with the awakening and think it is all possible by it, oh certainly but it's easier to climb the everest without rocks in your backpack but surely some have done but there are just more efficient ways of doing it than just awakening and going higher and higher.

On 17/1/2024 at 3:40 PM, Ishanga said:

When someone is so messed up in their mind stuff then spirituality is not yet for them, first get that right, get to a stable platform of Peace.

The problem is you think shadow work is for broken people that are not spiritually evolved. That are some unconsicous thoughts picked up from socierty that psychology and so on are to fix yourself when you are broken, wrong. Many saints do have shadow even though they are extremely conscious! Many saints have personality disorders, even though they are enlightened! Charles Manson is absurdly conscious, much more than you and me together and he's still insane, psychopath and with murder tendencies. From this misunderstanding came all the sexual scandals and unintegrities from masters, because they fail to understand the shadow and think that by being spiritual they can bypass it.

No, that's spiritual bypassing, search and investigate this term. It's an important lesson that everyone painfully learns in the path. When the shadow slaps you in the face after some time of spiritual fantasy. With time you will remember this conversation we are having and everything  will make much more sense.

 

On 17/1/2024 at 3:40 PM, Ishanga said:

when that is gained then one can begin a spiritual path per say, until then, its all mind work, ego discovery and things of this nature which imo are not real or true spiritual work, just as we are not talking about Spirituality here, we are talking around it. 

OKay now we are getting somewhere. THe problem is you don't see how all this points connect together. You are just talking about awakening and that's fine but you don't get that there are unvoidable secondary works that need to be done in parallel with your sadhana. After awakening deeply for many years, your shit will come to the light. Then you will clean it, use sadghuru's tools if that works for you great. From that cleaning, your human character will evolve and you will become mature, growing up (which is essential in yoga also). Hence the three main facets of the work that go in cycles are Wake up, Clean up, Grow up. But you think that just by the first one you are set and done, well theoretically yes but in practice one in a million do so, it's very hard to climb mound everest being a child with a backpack full of rocks, but some have done it that I guarantee you, there you have your point. The question is if that will be you?

On 17/1/2024 at 3:40 PM, Ishanga said:

Think what You want about Sadhguru and what he is or is not, at least he admits all the talking, interviews and events are circus, as well at least he shares methods and technologies for one to get to a point of gradual Realization

Sadghuru is very legit and I respect him very much. He just has some blind spots, as everyone, I'm trying to make you see them, that's all. Because I have studied hundred of masters deeply, practiced dozens of religions, read numeral books about psychology and personal develpment. The full round spectrum. That's why I can share with you things that most people can't see.

On 17/1/2024 at 3:40 PM, Ishanga said:

if your into talking and think this is the be all end all then good luck:)

Lol, of course I'm not that naive. This is talking from direct experience, real talking. 

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Davino the guy will not undestand. Once one close the mind for one important aspect of Integration one will be stubborn as a mule till life shows him that he still have shit to do. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

William Blake: 'The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.'

 

In the realm of profound thoughts and philosophical musings, the words of William Blake hold a special place. One such quote that captivates the imagination and invites introspection is, 'The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.' At first glance, this quote may seem rather paradoxical - how can one transform their foolishness into wisdom? Yet, when we delve deeper into its true meaning and ponder its significance, it reveals a profound concept that challenges our perspectives on growth, development, and the human condition itself.In its most straightforward interpretation, this quote speaks to the transformative power of persistence and perseverance.

It suggests that despite initial appearances, even the seemingly foolish can journey towards enlightenment and wisdom if they persist on their chosen path. It is a reminder that wisdom cannot be gained solely through innate intelligence or natural talent, but through the willingness to learn, adapt, and continuously improve oneself.This quote touches on the essence of personal growth and the human capacity for evolution. It reminds us that wisdom is not a destination but a lifelong journey.

In this context, being a 'fool' is not meant to be derogatory but rather symbolizes a starting point of ignorance or naivety. It is recognizing our own limitations and embracing the idea that we all have room to grow and learn.

Now, let us venture into the realm of an unexpected philosophical concept - the concept of the 'eternal beginner.' Drawing from Eastern philosophy, particularly Zen Buddhism, we find a similar notion. The 'eternal beginner' is someone who approaches life with a beginner's mind, regardless of their level of expertise or experience. This concept aligns beautifully with Blake's quote, as it emphasizes the importance of humility, curiosity, and the ability to unlearn and relearn.In contrast to our conventional understanding of knowledge and wisdom as something attained through accumulation, the 'eternal beginner' reminds us to let go of preconceived notions and approach every situation with a sense of openness and wonder. It encourages us to embrace the unknown, be willing to make mistakes, and persist in our quest for understanding.When we connect the dots between Blake's quote and the concept of the 'eternal beginner,' intriguing parallels emerge. Both concepts emphasize the importance of persistence, despite initial setbacks or perceived foolishness. They remind us that growth and wisdom are not linear but rather a cyclical process of continuous learning and unlearning.

In our modern society, where the pursuit of success and the fear of failure often overshadow the joy of learning and exploration, these ideas serve as timely reminders. They invite us to embrace a mindset freed from the shackles of ego and achievement, and instead, focus on the intrinsic value of gaining wisdom through experience, reflection, and the capacity to change.Ultimately, Blake's quote and the concept of the 'eternal beginner' invite us to question our assumptions about knowledge and wisdom.

They challenge us to reevaluate our attitudes towards growth and development, urging us to value the journey as much as the destination. In embracing the spirit of persistence and maintaining a beginner's mind, we break free from the confines of foolishness and embark on a path that leads to true wisdom and self-transformation.

[Rafael Thundercat]

Thank you @Davino this also led me to reflect into a phenomena happening in spiritual circles called Cultural Appropriation where people in the cities go to jungle and bring their "downloads" and start playing Shamans forgeting that they are playing with serious things and in majority not even giving credit to the traditions they went to learn their special magic. Is very sad what is going on in Tulum, Costa Rica, Ubub, and in many areas where Spirituality is basicaly monetary games.

[Ishanga]

2 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

@Davino the guy will not undestand. Once one close the mind for one important aspect of Integration one will be stubborn as a mule till life shows him that he still have shit to do. 

Ditto...

[Davino]

12 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

@Davino the guy will not undestand. Once one close the mind for one important aspect of Integration one will be stubborn as a mule till life shows him that he still have shit to do. 

The seed has already been planted, don't worry

[Rafael Thundercat]

Maybe this video put a finger on how shadow work merges with Non-Duality. And thay one need to avoid using non-duality as a way to diverge from true psycological issues on the daily life. i did it and now I am paying the price for it. 

There is Awakening and there is ground work. The two goes hand in hand. 

[Schizophonia]

There is no dark self.
Dark is just the absence of photons in space.