The scapegoating of the nice guy

[mr_engineer]

There are a whole bunch of people saying a whole bunch of nasty things about nice guys. That 'they're weak, they're inauthentic, they're manipulative, they're controlling, they're not really nice', blah blah blah. I have finally figured out why that is. 

It's because dating-coaches really profit from telling you 'you're being too nice, don't be too nice, do this instead'. 

If they told you the truth, which is that women want a man to be nice and loving towards them, and you should be nice (in smart and pragmatic ways, meaning, if someone asks you for an unreasonable favor, you help them not by doing the favor, you help them by suggesting a better, more convenient alternative), that would not be original. 

This is a problem. Because we are killing true masculinity by doing this. True masculinity is not about achievement and conquest, it is about giving. It is about sharing your gift with the world. 

Honestly, I am not proud of the fact that I live in times when 'being nice' is considered a bad thing and selfishness is glorified. 

Edited January 9 by mr_engineer

[NoSelfSelf]

Nice guy is selfish like everyone else,but unable to see himself as such,he covers it up by being good.It a survival strategy to gain things for himself by helping others,which looks like he is giving but there is secret agenda always when its broken sooner or later it manifest itself in agressive outburst towards a woman leaving her confused because he cant communicate his desires clearly.

While not being honestly selfish he falls short again and again,not being able to achieve much in life which makes him unable to give because all he can give is fake kidness and live like a bystander judging assholes because that is part of himself that he hates the most,in the end isolates himself because he cant face the cruel world in front of him because he will need to face himself his own selfisness...

Brutal but amazing display of how nice guy is being destroyed by the world and accepting that his own suffering is created by him being weak is in final episode of tokyo ghoul season 1..

[Schizophonia]

It's not a question of being nice or not, the devil is always in the details.
Women like to be bossed around, that's all.

When they say “too nice,” it’s essentially diminishing oneself energetically to try to save the woman.
It's not even a question of being weak or whatever, most of the time it's just misunderstanding.

[Yimpa]

My ex abandoned me in a very unnice way. That lost grew me the most.

[Schizophonia]

25 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Nice guy is selfish like everyone else,but unable to see himself as such,he covers it up by being good.It a survival strategy to gain things for himself by helping others,which looks like he is giving but there is secret agenda always when its broken sooner or later it manifest itself in agressive outburst towards a woman leaving her confused because he cant communicate his desires clearly.

While not being honestly selfish he falls short again and again,not being able to achieve much in life which makes him unable to give because all he can give is fake kidness and live like a bystander judging assholes because that is part of himself that he hates the most,in the end isolates himself because he cant face the cruel world in front of him because he will need to face himself his own selfisness...

Brutal but amazing display of how nice guy is being destroyed by the world and accepting that his own suffering is created by him being weak is in final episode of tokyo ghoul season 1..

It's probably "just" a matter of false belief.

[Jodistrict]

Of course, being nice in a shitty culture is going to be demonized.   If you are living with the Pirates of the Caribbean, being honest is considered a laughable offense.  

[Israfil]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

There are a whole bunch of people saying a whole bunch of nasty things about nice guys. That 'they're weak, they're inauthentic, they're manipulative, they're controlling, they're not really nice', blah blah blah. I have finally figured out why that is. 

It's because dating-coaches really profit from telling you 'you're being too nice, don't be too nice, do this instead'. 

If they told you the truth, which is that women want a man to be nice and loving towards them, and you should be nice (in smart and pragmatic ways, meaning, if someone asks you for an unreasonable favor, you help them not by doing the favor, you help them by suggesting a better, more convenient alternative), that would not be original. 

This is a problem. Because we are killing true masculinity by doing this. True masculinity is not about achievement and conquest, it is about giving. It is about sharing your gift with the world. 

Honestly, I am not proud of the fact that I live in times when 'being nice' is considered a bad thing and selfishness is glorified. 

A genuinely nice person is everything you described.

Usually the term is used to describe people that are nice for the sake of getting sex. This is actually manipulation and bullshitery.

[Yimpa]

You can date a goat or be one with the GOAT.

 

[Mulky]

1 Important thing. Being a bitchy little mean-spirited person, which is what so many people seem to think is cool, is not the way to go. That is a different thing, that is even worse. All of the people trying to be more cynical and mean-spirited for fear of seeming wholesome or innocent or sincere, or whatever is getting to be a bit much. Getting more brave is good, maintaining your current level of bravery and become less nice is not good.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Schizophonia As far as book says, its because needs wasnt met at early age so belief constructed everything is good if im good...

[meta_male]

11 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

True masculinity is not about achievement and conquest, it is about giving. It is about sharing your gift with the world. 

Unfortunately, the so called nice guy has no gifts anyone is interested in.

[Princess Arabia]

11 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

It's not a question of being nice or not, the devil is always in the details.
Women like to be bossed around, that's all.

When they say “too nice,” it’s essentially diminishing oneself energetically to try to save the woman.
It's not even a question of being weak or whatever, most of the time it's just misunderstanding.

Women like to be bossed around? You gotta pay me to boss me around and then I'll turn around and boss you around to pay me some more. Hehe...how's that. Don't be fooled by what you think you know. I know some men that like to be bossed around too. 

Personally for me, neither one is the boss. Respectful communication and pleasantries. Why complicate things. 

"Honey  would you like some water?" "Yes dear". Bring the water. "Thanks my love".

Whip, whip!

. 

[Princess Arabia]

11 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Nice guy is selfish like everyone else,but unable to see himself as such,he covers it up by being good.It a survival strategy to gain things for himself by helping others,which looks like he is giving but there is secret agenda always when its broken sooner or later it manifest itself in agressive outburst towards a woman leaving her confused because he cant communicate his desires clearly.

While not being honestly selfish he falls short again and again,not being able to achieve much in life which makes him unable to give because all he can give is fake kidness and live like a bystander judging assholes because that is part of himself that he hates the most,in the end isolates himself because he cant face the cruel world in front of him because he will need to face himself his own selfisness...

Brutal but amazing display of how nice guy is being destroyed by the world and accepting that his own suffering is created by him being weak is in final episode of tokyo ghoul season 1..

Great analysis. I knew a couple of those. The worst kind. Inverted narcissist too. Ugh

[Schizophonia]

21 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Women like to be bossed around? You gotta pay me to boss me around and then I'll turn around and boss you around to pay me some more. Hehe...how's that. Don't be fooled by what you think you know. I know some men that like to be bossed around too. 

Yes, there are great dominas like you and submissive men, lol.
But the vast majority of the time, the opposite is true, from what I have observed.

Quote

Personally for me, neither one is the boss. Respectful communication and pleasantries. Why complicate things. 

It's cool.
I think that the more open you are to love, the more balanced the relationship, and the more closed you are, the more your libido takes an authoritarian (including masochism, i guess), hierarchical and quite poor turn.

 

 

Edited January 10 by Schizophonia

[mr_engineer]

1 hour ago, meta_male said:

Unfortunately, the so called nice guy has no gifts anyone is interested in.

Sounds very blackpilling. Do you happen to agree with the blackpill? 

[mr_engineer]

13 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Nice guy is selfish like everyone else,but unable to see himself as such,he covers it up by being good.It a survival strategy to gain things for himself by helping others,which looks like he is giving but there is secret agenda always when its broken sooner or later it manifest itself in agressive outburst towards a woman leaving her confused because he cant communicate his desires clearly.

So, all guys are assholes, some are straightforward, others are putting a fake 'nice' front? 

13 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

While not being honestly selfish he falls short again and again,not being able to achieve much in life which makes him unable to give because all he can give is fake kidness and live like a bystander judging assholes because that is part of himself that he hates the most,in the end isolates himself because he cant face the cruel world in front of him because he will need to face himself his own selfisness...

Do you have to be an asshole to be successful? Or, does it take work-ethic and discipline? 

And, about the 'cruel world' - how do you fix that? Does it get fixed by stopping to be nice and being an asshole? Or, is the way to fix it, to recognize the difference between people who act out of love, i.e. 'nice' people, and people who act out of ego, i.e. 'assholes' and to protect the nice people against the assholes? Keep in mind that in order to protect anyone, you need a morality of who's good vs who's bad. 

Edited January 10 by mr_engineer

[meta_male]

28 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Sounds very blackpilling. Do you happen to agree with the blackpill? 

Not that I'm aware of.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Princess Arabia True, i noticed all covert narcissist are nice guys ,because they manipulate their image through being either big belivers in god or some kind of helpers,but its all to gain control over other peoples perceptions and use it later to gaslight, like how dare you say that because see what im doing, see how good i am...

@mr_engineer Its not the problem of being either this or that its being able to be an asshole/nice in same person, so i can tell you to fuck off when its needed and being able to listen to you empathicly when its needed.

Its relative but the biggest chance to be "succesful" (if we talk about societies way to telling what it is and with women) you have to be really selfish(my notion of selfish is focusing on self and dont care about others its mental switch) and from that you can give but problem with asshole is he doesnt have limits to being an asshole but women love them because they can fix them piece by piece...where if you are a great guy there is no drama to be fixed...

That's your problem ,you want to fix the cruel world while not pointing to fix yourself, you dont have privalege to fix anything its for those who are strong in themselves, but again your idea of fixing someone is not what they want(they 9/10 operate in different paradigm where your help is useless) you must just wait for people to ask you for help because if you help them without it, they would not change and in the end you would end up as a fool.. i spent so much time helping as a nice guy that now im disgusted by the notion of helping someone if they dont ask me...

 

Edited January 10 by NoSelfSelf

[NoSelfSelf]

@Squeekytoy That turns them on as long as you show in the end you have capacity to change,then that  journey makes their emotions engaged.

Pimps use this to alter emotions by selling them the dream and how their life is boring without them.

Because emotions of a woman is engaged by the happy ending like all those romance books againts all odds they end up together...

Edited January 10 by NoSelfSelf

[mr_engineer]

9 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

That's your problem ,you want to fix the cruel world while not pointing to fix yourself, you dont have privalege to fix anything its for those who are strong in themselves, but again your idea of fixing someone is not what they want(they 9/10 operate in different paradigm where your help is useless) you must just wait for people to ask you for help because if you help them without it, they would not change and in the end you would end up as a fool.. i spent so much time helping as a nice guy that now im disgusted by the notion of helping someone if they dont ask me...

We're talking about a 'cruel world' here. Meaning, all kinds of shit happening in it. There are abusers and there are victims. There are oppressors and there are the oppressed. That's the practical meaning of 'cruel world'. 

If you say that 'you can't reason with the evil people in this world', I would agree. What you can do, though, is stand up to them for their victims. A nice guy will be helpful and kind in general. But, if you want to look at it relative to the 'asshole' or the 'cruel world', your role could be to fix the cruel world. That's how you be constructive in it! 

And, when it comes to other people's paradigms not accounting for the possibility of being helped by you, this is where marketing comes in. You know what they need, but they don't know what's possible. So, through marketing, you advertise a better possibility of how things could work. This is how you outcompete the unconscious assholes in the marketplace and this is how you change the world for the better, this is how you make it less cruel. 

This is what all conscious business boils down to. Being a kind and nice person. This is what conscious marketing boils down to! We're being very practical, goal-oriented and achievement-oriented here, we're not just being theoretical and talking about a moral debate.