What is the Problem in the Human World?

[Ishanga]

As a long time researcher and of course I've done the practices for years, so this is not just about researching what others think, but from my own experience, what are the main problems in the Human World, we have been around for thousands of Years, in the last 100 yrs we have had the greatest amount of change in how we live, and how we are within ourselves. Even in this small community here, you can see what the problems are, here are what i think are the biggest Spiritual challenges, it is because we as a whole humanity are not Spiritually minded that the problems we have exist, we are still living in Cave Man days, it is just we are not searching for fire, water, food, shelter, but entertainment, life and purpose outside of ourselves...

 

1) Massive Unconcsiousness - what this is means in basic form is that Reality is not experienced by the majority of People on this planet, ppl are not Living Life, they are thinking about Life, making up little worlds in their minds and believing it is reality. Reality is not separate from Yourself, you are a part of nature, can actualize it and experience it as a huge part of Yourself. Nature/Reality is the most perfect thing we have to perceive in all the Universe, its so perfect we can predict the rise of the sun, when the seasons change, patterns that exist in nature. All of this, the ability to have Life as available as it is on this planet, is as perfect as it can get, but we don't experience Perfection at all on the larger scale in Human Experience because we are Unconcsious to Reality, our role and connection to it...

 

2) Identified with things we are not - Identity tells You who You are, the majority are identified with the Body or Mind or both in differing intensities. But both Body/Mind are Accumulated things, Body via the food You eat, so Body is Earth, Body only know procreation and surival. Mind is accumulated Information brought in via the 5 senses, its societies Garbage Bin, you have no choice of the data you have within Your Mind, subconcsiouns/unconscious aspects of it, but it is not You, something else has to be there beforehand to allow You to accumulate anything, don't label it, just get intouch with it and identify with that aspect of what You are. Once a space is created btwn what You are and what You have accumulated, then Life opens up...

3) Massive Conditioning - the world of Humanity is under massive conditioning programs, some natural in make up some man made, but the way we are educated, the way we see and live in the world is why the world is the way it is, we still have wars, we still have massive suffering both physical and mental, but we live in the most informative and technologically advanced time ever for the most part..Conditioning is a part of the Karma equation, Karma is the residual effect of all the actions You take coming back to You and making you experience life as You are right Now. Action is on 4 levels, Physical, Mental, Emotional and Energetic. how conscious are You of all the actions taking place every second of Your Life in these areas? Most are less than 1% aware of any of it, but have the potential too be 100% aware of all of it, how would that change life for You?

4) Belief, and that Life is outside of You - Belief is false Knowing, its information coming in from  outside of Yourself telling You a story, sharing an ideology/concept and You mentally accept it as Truth or embibe it as Reality of sorts, which leads you on a path of false knowing. Life is within You, not outside of You, all experience you have happens within You, ppl just use outside stimuli to create an experience within themselves. If You have 100% control of You inner experience how would You want to be, Happy or Sad? How would being Happy at will transform your life today, compared to being a slave to outside situations creating how You feel within Yourself now?

[Davino]

Ego:

1. Not having a healthy & mature ego. Not Being a well rounded Human being, with a developed character and psyche.

2. Not transcending ego, never getting into the transpersonal, transhuman domains.

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

Ego:

1. Not having a healthy & mature ego. Not Being a well rounded Human being, with a developed character and psyche.

2. Not transcending ego, never getting into the transpersonal, transhuman domains.

Ego is needed in a society, it is neither good or bad, like Your body or mind complex it is a tools of sorts, when alone drop it, but it is not You, identifying with it like I said is the problem, identifying with things You are not leads us to where we are today...

[Davino]

14 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Ego is needed in a society, it is neither good or bad, like Your body or mind complex it is a tools of sorts, when alone drop it, but it is not You, identifying with it like I said is the problem, identifying with things You are not leads us to where we are today...

Ego is needed in the current society, hence point 1.

Ego may not be needed in the future of humanity, hence point 2.

 

What is the problem in the human world? I say Ego

[Princess Arabia]

Excellent post.

[Ishanga]

@Davino

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Ego is needed in the current society, hence point 1.

Ego may not be needed in the future of humanity, hence point 2.

 

What is the problem in the human world? I say Ego

Well yes but its not the Ego directly that is the problem, its believing or experience it as You, so we have to get more fundamental, if all of us had no Ego, then how would you deal with other ppl, other personalities and identities and situations, its bad enough as it is, but with no ego's, I don't know really how it would be, its a tool and something to use to function in society better, I think either if we had no ego then we would be in a sense of oneness and bliss all the time and our species would not have survived this long or it would have continued to be chaos and such war like environments all the time everywhere and hence again would would not have survived as long..What is saving us is laziness, ppl are addicted to media, internet, entertainment and drugs/Booze, it causes problems but the vast majority are out of touch and do nothing with their lives, hence why we have a lonliness problem as well...

[Carl-Richard]

Evolutionarily mismatched environments, activities and things

[Devin]

If people were as you want them right now, even then, wouldn't you still find fault with them?

You speak of spirituality and of how people are searching for something outside themselves, but are you not as well by wanting people to be different?

You would always be able to find 'fault', say you're God and you can change humanity however you want right now, envision that, sit with that vision a bit, would you never again come to see more 'faults' with your perfectly envisioned people? Wouldn't you eventually think, "awe, the stupid chaos was actually better, this is mindlessly boring".

The knowledge of good and evil, fear, .... is probably the multiple choice answer to your question, but just as you reference in the end of your first paragraph, "it is because we as a whole humanity are not Spiritually minded that the problems we have exist, we are still living in Cave Man days, it is just we are not searching for fire, water, food, shelter, but entertainment, life and purpose outside of ourselves..." this 'problem' isn't outside yourself.

Edited January 8 by Devin

[Davino]

16 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Well yes but its not the Ego directly that is the problem, its believing or experience it as You

That is only understood after seeing beyond the ego. How do you see a lion that has swallowed you?

16 hours ago, Ishanga said:

if all of us had no Ego, then how would you deal with other ppl, other personalities and identities and situations, its bad enough as it is, but with no ego's, I don't know really how it would be

Well first of all, no such questions would arise in egolesness. It is the egos job to think great of it's own capabilities but you don't even command your heart beat or your digestion, but things take care of themselves faultlessly. Having said that, there is no egolesness without healthy ego first, there is no university without highschool. With point 1 we would deal and create and ecosystem for point 2. Also to think how an awake society would look like is an utter mystery.

16 hours ago, Ishanga said:

What is saving us is laziness, ppl are addicted to media, internet, entertainment and drugs/Booze, it causes problems but the vast majority are out of touch and do nothing with their lives, hence why we have a lonliness problem as well...

How is our self-destruction saving us exactly?

16 hours ago, Ishanga said:

(ego) its a tool and something to use to function in society better

I do agree in a certain way that's why I would also like to mention a new possibility.

3. Individuation & Egolesness in perfect marriage

To ilustrate this point, I like how Frank Yang explains it.

First you are a drop in the ocean. Then you become the whole ocean. Finally the whole ocean gets reabsorbed in the drop, and both disappear.

[Davino]

@Devin I usually don't like to reduce systematic problems to just the individual sense making, but I find it crucial to absolutely go to the deep end of your thought current before jumping to the collective.

The unconscious, the shadow, the devil and projection-making are indeed within.

But there is also the collective unconscious, the collective shadow...

It's best to finish the job in oneself and then jump to the collective, that I agree. Then you will have right discrimination to see what is going on.

[Devin]

5 hours ago, Davino said:

@Devin I usually don't like to reduce systematic problems to just the individual sense making, but I find it crucial to absolutely go to the deep end of your thought current before jumping to the collective.

The unconscious, the shadow, the devil and projection-making are indeed within.

But there is also the collective unconscious, the collective shadow...

It's best to finish the job in oneself and then jump to the collective, that I agree. Then you will have right discrimination to see what is going on.

But is there really anything wrong with society? Envision It as perfect the way you think it should be, when I do I realize there's no ending in 'correction' and actually it would come back to the exact way society is now, I would eventually want society exactly as it is now, therefore to me it is already perfect.

When you consider infinity, no end, infinite combinations; that means everything, every scenario will be. And I think infinity can even be seen logically, I don't mean in a philosophical sense; consider the time before the universe, then the universe happened, well if the universe can happen then obviously everything will happen, every scenario, I mean what would prevent it?

[Ishanga]

7 hours ago, Davino said:

That is only understood after seeing beyond the ego. How do you see a lion that has swallowed you?

Well first of all, no such questions would arise in egolesness. It is the egos job to think great of it's own capabilities but you don't even command your heart beat or your digestion, but things take care of themselves faultlessly. Having said that, there is no egolesness without healthy ego first, there is no university without highschool. With point 1 we would deal and create and ecosystem for point 2. Also to think how an awake society would look like is an utter mystery.

How is our self-destruction saving us exactly?

I do agree in a certain way that's why I would also like to mention a new possibility.

3. Individuation & Egolesness in perfect marriage

To ilustrate this point, I like how Frank Yang explains it.

First you are a drop in the ocean. Then you become the whole ocean. Finally the whole ocean gets reabsorbed in the drop, and both disappear.

Because ppl are so empowered today with technology, one person (lets Use Leo for eg) can create a platform and influence thousands of ppl, because of that access to tech and communication with a possible world wide audience, laziness in ppl is saving us, if everyone had that ambition, like that of a motivated hungry tiger, then with the current level of consciousness in this world, it would be chaos and war everywhere..

[Ishanga]

1 hour ago, Devin said:

But is there really anything wrong with society? Envision It as perfect the way you think it should be, when I do I realize there's no ending in 'correction' and actually it would come back to the exact way society is now, I would eventually want society exactly as it is now, therefore to me it is already perfect.

When you consider infinity, no end, infinite combinations; that means everything, every scenario will be. And I think infinity can even be seen logically, I don't mean in a philosophical sense; consider the time before the universe, then the universe happened, well if the universe can happen then obviously everything will happen, every scenario, I mean what would prevent it?

Society is just an Idea, none of us really know what is going on with society other than how we internally feel about it, so for me I see chaos, disfunction, disharmony most everywhere, ppl looking outside themselves for life and pleasures and security, when all experience happens within You, so where is life happening but only within You, but few know this as a Reality, so socially we are in trouble. With the Raising of Human Consciousness we go from being living as we are now, looking for life outside ourselves, not knowing a thing about reality, to knowing life is within ourselves, and a good perception of reality as it is, which is a much more stable place to be, much more harmony and live empowerment, all we need is too establish this as a necessity, like we did at the beginning of the  1900's where most of the people were illiterate, we established institutions and system so that everyone had the opportunity to be able to read and write and basics  like that, do the same here and life on this planet would transform..

[Davino]

@Devin In short, yes but no. More less you got it but you still need some refinement but it's the good direction keep going.

1 hour ago, Devin said:

But is there really anything wrong with society? 

I like the Hindu concept of Completion. Which says from completion everything was born, everything is complete now and everything evolves to higher completion.

Is there anything wrong in a cell being a cell? No

If cells join together in a higher order and form a human being, does that mean that, what was prior was wrong, and now we have corrected it? No

It's just how the holarchy works. 

In the same way, I'm talking about society and reality. It is already complete and perfect, but it's becoming ever more complete and perfect.

This is an important threshold, between the isness of reality and the sentient intelligent isness of reality. 

[Breakingthewall]

All of that is true, but the interesting thing is that it is necessary. Humanity as a collective is an evolving being, and all its movements, fluctuations, tides, trends, are trial and error. If the intelligence of life had wanted beings in perfect harmony, there would be them. There are already birds, whales for example, but humans are something else, they are a servant of the mind, a support for the collective ego, an alive entity that evolves very fast. faster that any other life. 

I personally want to free myself from that, selfishly. My karma pushes me to do it, but I don't think everyone should do it. Every person has their mission well defined, reality demands a role from each individual, and no one escapes from executing it. everything is synchrony, movement, evolution.

[Davino]

 

7 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Because ppl are so empowered today with technology, one person (lets Use Leo for eg) can create a platform and influence thousands of ppl, because of that access to tech and communication with a possible world wide audience, laziness in ppl is saving us, if everyone had that ambition, like that of a motivated hungry tiger, then with the current level of consciousness in this world, it would be chaos and war everywhere..

Sorry to tell you but that argument hangs by a thread and has many rough angles.

Don't try to put make up on top of our self destructing mechanism, even though it can have anecdotal counterintuitive positive effects

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

All of that is true, but the interesting thing is that it is necessary. Humanity as a collective is an evolving being, and all its movements, fluctuations, tides, trends, are trial and error. If the intelligence of life had wanted beings in perfect harmony, there would be them. There are already birds, whales for example, but humans are something else, they are a servant of the mind, a support for the collective ego, an alive entity that evolves very fast. faster that any other life. 

I personally want to free myself from that, selfishly. My karma pushes me to do it, but I don't think everyone should do it. Every person has their mission well defined, reality demands a role from each individual, and no one escapes from executing it. everything is synchrony, movement, evolution.

True, so all we can do is be the best version of ourselves right? What is the best version of ourselves then, many have tried to define this, some do not have any idea of Spirituality and what it means, so their exposure is limited, but we live in the best time ever for being exposed to everything and anything, which is why the Pain of Ignorance has to enter someones life, when that happens as they say the Teacher will arrive and things start to happen for You:)

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall One whole movement, a universal endless dance 🍃

[Devin]

36 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Devin In short, yes but no. More less you got it but you still need some refinement but it's the good direction keep going.

I like the Hindu concept of Completion. Which says from completion everything was born, everything is complete now and everything evolves to higher completion.

Is there anything wrong in a cell being a cell? No

If cells join together in a higher order and form a human being, does that mean that, what was prior was wrong, and now we have corrected it? No

It's just how the holarchy works. 

In the same way, I'm talking about society and reality. It is already complete and perfect, but it's becoming ever more complete and perfect.

This is an important threshold, between the isness of reality and the sentient intelligent isness of reality. 

If I or you are compelled to make change in the world it's not because of a problem though, it's just continuing the performance. Being compelled to raise the collective consciousness is not a problem nor indicative of a problem in society, it is just the next part of the piece of music.