I'm Finally Going Vegan (at least for a month)

[LoneWonderer]

Today as I lay in my bed I though about my best possible life. Something I've always thought was being whole food plant based vegan. I've been a mostly whole foods pescetarian for about 3 years but I feel this is not going to cut it any longer. For health, for the animals and for planetary health this is the choice I believe is the best for 90%+ of all people on the planet. The other 10% I leave room for people with health or genetics who could not live on a vegan lifestyle.

So why don't we do it? Because honestly it's hard AF to give up on the foods you love. It means stopping your unconscious habits. 

As I said. In my best life I'm vegan. Today started the first day of this one month trial. I don't expect much to change as I already am pretty healthy. However 1 month will give me time to get rid of a need to consume non vegan stuff and after this one month trial hopefully I'll just stick with it.

I will report back after 1 month. Signing out. 🫡

[Schizophonia]

Post before demonic farts, bad libido and "Tutorial, how to make tomato bean steaks" lol. Seriously you do what you want, but after decades of experience putting my ego aside, my dream is more raw milk, buttered steaks and fruit.

 

Many ideas presented as evidence of the evolution of consciousness are actually aesthetic postures that are psychologically regressive.

 

[Jason Actualization]

11 hours ago, LoneWonderer said:

For health, for the animals and for planetary health this is the choice I believe is the best for 90%+ of all people on the planet. The other 10% I leave room for people with health or genetics who could not live on a vegan lifestyle.

We have arrived at very different conclusions, but nevertheless, I wish you well on this new adventure my friend.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Schizophonia I was vegan for 8 years and honestly feel so much better since stopping lol

I can now work 10+ hour days, train 5-6x a week and play sport every night pretty easily on my current diet. 

Basically feel as if I'm on steroids 

Before I would crash hard after a lot of meals and struggle to focus. 

Honestly think this year I'll make like 5 years of progress in all areas in 1. 

[ZenAlex]

14 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Schizophonia I was vegan for 8 years and honestly feel so much better since stopping lol

I can now work 10+ hour days, train 5-6x a week and play sport every night pretty easily on my current diet. 

Basically feel as if I'm on steroids 

Before I would crash hard after a lot of meals and struggle to focus. 

Honestly think this year I'll make like 5 years of progress in all areas in 1. 

Did you put a great deal of effort into making sure you met your nutritional requirements?

[Schizophonia]

7 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

Did you put a great deal of effort into making sure you met your nutritional requirements?

That's the whole problem.

[Jason Actualization]

24 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

That's the whole problem.

Bingo.

The problem is that a heroic supplementation effort is required when adopting a vegan eating pattern. I commend anyone who strives for this given the degree of discipline and intentionality it demands, and yet, in good conscience, I could never condone nor advocate such a pursuit. However, in the end, I have confidence that the folks who go down this rabbit hole, given how well-intended and diligent they tend to be, will, over time, arrive at a more optimal, omnivorous approach to their nutrition.

[undeather]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

That's the whole problem.

Show me one diet that meets all nutritional requirements and I will kiss your feet.
It doesnt exist. I am not even advocating for veganism because it's a boring as fuck elimination diet - but the premise is the case. If I take yours or Jasons's blood - I am going to find deficiancies! 

From an integral health perspective, supplementation is part of the game!
Outside of internet echochambers, most nutrient-concious vegans who supplement B12 will just do fine in the long run.
But thats very hard to accept for most people. Also, the reason vegans have to supplement B12 are well understood and has nothing to do with an "inherent" lack of nutrients. 

Stop making people afraid of going vegan! It really is a nonsense argument based on gibberish. 
And you guys are smart enough to know that!




 

Edited January 8, 2024 by undeather

[Jason Actualization]

1 hour ago, undeather said:

If I take yours or Jasons's blood - I am going to find deficiancies! 

From an integral health perspective, supplementation is part of the game!

I would agree that spot supplementation is essential for optimal health, yes.

I've never been fond of hypothetical "if" statements: which deficiencies would you suspect? Historically, I have only had the opposite problem, i.e., I have to donate blood to offload iron (ferritin more specifically) but in terms of a micronutrient deficiency, I've never had one flag before.

[toasty7718]

5 hours ago, undeather said:

Show me one diet that meets all nutritional requirements and I will kiss your feet.
It doesnt exist. I am not even advocating for veganism because it's a boring as fuck elimination diet - but the premise is the case. If I take yours or Jasons's blood - I am going to find deficiancies! 

From an integral health perspective, supplementation is part of the game!
Outside of internet echochambers, most nutrient-concious vegans who supplement B12 will just do fine in the long run.
But thats very hard to accept for most people. Also, the reason vegans have to supplement B12 are well understood and has nothing to do with an "inherent" lack of nutrients. 

Stop making people afraid of going vegan! It really is a nonsense argument based on gibberish. 
And you guys are smart enough to know that!

 Bingo

[LoneWonderer]

4 hours ago, Jason Actualization said:

I would agree that spot supplementation is essential for optimal health, yes.

I've never been fond of hypothetical "if" statements: which deficiencies would you suspect? Historically, I have only had the opposite problem, i.e., I have to donate blood to offload iron (ferritin more specifically) but in terms of a micronutrient deficiency, I've never had one flag before.

I can't emphasize enough how much proper education in nutrition contributes to your success or failure in this endeavour. 

[Yimpa]

Nice, I transitioned to pescatarian diet a couple months ago after spending about 20 years eating meat every single day 

[LfcCharlie4]

@ZenAlex Lol did I? 

I worked with Michael on here (he's great btw), my friend joked I had a pharmacy in my house, and followed so many of the top Vegan doctor recommendations.

Usual stack of D3, B12, Vg MV, Omega 3s etc etc 

Yet, digestion went to shit, as did energy 

Never crash after meals now, feel more satiated and effortlessly train 5-6x / week + play sports at least 4/ week if not more tbh. 

But, its 100% organic / wholefoods, no processed shit

[LfcCharlie4]

13 hours ago, undeather said:

Show me one diet that meets all nutritional requirements and I will kiss your feet.
It doesnt exist. I am not even advocating for veganism because it's a boring as fuck elimination diet - but the premise is the case. If I take yours or Jasons's blood - I am going to find deficiancies! 

From an integral health perspective, supplementation is part of the game!
Outside of internet echochambers, most nutrient-concious vegans who supplement B12 will just do fine in the long run.
But thats very hard to accept for most people. Also, the reason vegans have to supplement B12 are well understood and has nothing to do with an "inherent" lack of nutrients. 

Stop making people afraid of going vegan! It really is a nonsense argument based on gibberish. 
And you guys are smart enough to know that!




 

 

I'm sure it works for a lot of people 

The 5 I knew of locally all went back to Eating animal products though due to various issues - low iron, unable to meet athletic goals etc etc 

I really tried everything and 100% believed the Vegan message. But, I couldn't deny how I felt anymore. Honestly, the difference for myself iis extremely drastic

[Yimpa]

The best diet is the one that keeps you alive.

[undeather]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 

I'm sure it works for a lot of people 

The 5 I knew of locally all went back to Eating animal products though due to various issues - low iron, unable to meet athletic goals etc etc 

I really tried everything and 100% believed the Vegan message. But, I couldn't deny how I felt anymore. Honestly, the difference for myself iis extremely drastic

The phenomenon that some individuals on a vegan diet go back to eating meat due to perceived health issues is well known.
And in almost all cases it boils down to either inadequate calorie/macronutrient intake, weird dietary patterns (frutarians, paleo-vegan...) or an insufficient supplementation protocol. I also believe that we tend look for associations when new, often transient and psychophysically triggered health symptoms show up - and diet being one of the primary go to's in that case - despite there being no clear causation under the guise. 

But then, and this is often left out, you definitely have people like Peterson who for whatever reason just come along well with plant-based diets.

That said, in my 10+ years working in the medical field and taking care of many vegan patients in my private practice, I have seen many more cases of drastic health improvements than people getting worse after switching to vegan (which they did in their own interest because I don't advice people to go vegan!). 
 

Edited January 9, 2024 by undeather

[Schizophonia]

14 hours ago, undeather said:

Show me one diet that meets all nutritional requirements and I will kiss your feet.
It doesnt exist. I am not even advocating for veganism because it's a boring as fuck elimination diet - but the premise is the case. If I take yours or Jasons's blood - I am going to find deficiancies! 

From an integral health perspective, supplementation is part of the game!
Outside of internet echochambers, most nutrient-concious vegans who supplement B12 will just do fine in the long run.
But thats very hard to accept for most people. Also, the reason vegans have to supplement B12 are well understood and has nothing to do with an "inherent" lack of nutrients. 

Stop making people afraid of going vegan! It really is a nonsense argument based on gibberish. 
And you guys are smart enough to know that!




 

B12 is the least problem in a vegan diet.
It is also low in Zinc, omega 3, fats in general, proteins, fat-soluble vitamins, iron (I am naturally low in iron, even if I avoid consuming dairy products or anything that chelates iron), calcium (except lacto-vegetarian).

Btw, whether you find a low level of x vitamin in a chemiluminescence test, analyzing a hair root or whatever doesn't matter.
All that matters is that I can get through this without having to track my diet, and how I feel in general.

I feel much better, especially mentally, when I was on a “primal” diet than when I was vegan.
Much better attention, better libido, better sleep, better mood, feeling more androgenic in general, testosterone levels doubled...

[Schizophonia]

No one wants "a healthy vegan diet", no one wants to eat beans, potatoes and leafy vegetables in significant quantities without filling them with fat, it's a lie.

I am sure that beyond orthorexic delusions ("it's corpses", "it's animal excretions bwaa"), most dream of fatty red meat, chicken with the skin, seafood, bone marrow, coconut oil/cream, and dairy products.

Stop lying. 

Edited January 9, 2024 by Schizophonia

[undeather]

Quote

B12 is the least problem in a vegan diet.
It is also low in Zinc, omega 3, fats in general, proteins, fat-soluble vitamins, iron (I am naturally low in iron, even if I avoid consuming dairy products or anything that chelates iron), calcium (except lacto-vegetarian).

A well balanced, whole food vegan diet does not have a problem with any of these nutrients. That's nonsense.
You can make the argument that you need to be more concious about that sort of staff, but that's it.
The exact same strawman can be made about eating meat. Shitty dietary patterns exist everywhere but are not defined by leaving out animal products.
 

Quote

 

All that matters is that I can get through this without having to track my diet, and how I feel in general.

I feel much better, especially mentally, when I was on a “primal” diet than when I was vegan.
Much better attention, better libido, better sleep, better mood, feeling more androgenic in general, testosterone levels doubled...

 

If you found a diet that works for you, than that's great. But let's stop generalizing anecdotes and personal preferences to the point of total absurdity. The vegan propaganda machine has those stories as well and you know that.

 

51 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

No one wants "a healthy vegan diet", no one wants to eat beans, potatoes and leafy vegetables in significant quantities without filling them with fat, it's a lie.

I am sure that beyond orthorexic delusions ("it's corpses", "it's animal excretions bwaa"), most dream of fatty red meat, chicken with the skin, seafood, bone marrow, coconut oil/cream, and dairy products.

Stop lying. 

 

Edited January 9, 2024 by undeather

[Schizophonia]

6 hours ago, undeather said:

A well balanced, whole food vegan diet does not have a problem with any of these nutrients. That's nonsense.
You can make the argument that you need to be more concious about that sort of staff, but that's it.
The exact same strawman can be made about eating meat. Shitty dietary patterns exist everywhere but are not defined by leaving out animal products.
 

It's wrong.
B12, EPA and DHA and vitamin A literally do not exist or almost none in the plant world.
All vegans will eventually become impoverished unless they supplement and/or consume ridiculous amounts of flaxseed and carot juice, lol.
The only significant sources of zinc are legumes and assimilation is poor, you can prevent the assimilation of zinc from oysters by consuming them near legumes (I don't remember the study). You don't want to be vegan if you want to minimize prolactin and maximize your fertility.
The same goes for fats/proteins but I'm too lazy to go into that area.

In any case, I'm generally not even interested in going into this field, I'm not a scientist and even less someone who comes up with theories from his ivory tower.

6 hours ago, undeather said:

If you found a diet that works for you, than that's great. But let's stop generalizing anecdotes and personal preferences to the point of total absurdity. The vegan propaganda machine has those stories as well and you know that.

No, what ultimately works for one works for everyone.
We are one and the same species.

And this is not just my personal anecdote, but thousands of testimonies that I have read on different forums.
In fact, even major vegan public figures don't have a good track record, so that should ring a bell.

6 hours ago, undeather said:

 

Ty, i know i'm right when someone respond me something like that.