Daniel Schmachtenberger Start making sense for me in this one

[Danioover9000]

@Nilsi

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

I dont think this is a fair comparison. These images are literally on the product, so only visible once youve already paid for it - a smoker already knows about the risks and is not going to quit this habit (its the single most addictive substance known to man), just because he sees a disgusting image.

Tobacco sales have been declining for decades though, which is directly traceable to anti-smoking campaigns that have been financed by the government.

Im not suggesting that this will immediately lead to any meaningful change in behavior, but it will at least create some awareness and dialogue around the issue.

If people see a CGI animation of an animal that looks them directly in the eyes with some headline like "human action has led to my species becoming extinct today," I bet you it will trigger a strong emotional respons and facilitate dialogue around this issue. Now do this everyday and people will really get a felt sense for the situation.

A DIN-A4 poster in a college dorm toilet will be quite underwhelming, of course, but what if we did this on large billboards like the following one?:

We could start rolling this out in key cities around the world and it would go ultra viral. I dont think that people would perceive this as lunacy.

   That's lunacy.

[Israfil]

41 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Nilsi

   That's lunacy.

Inaction is lunacy too. What is your proposal to resolve the metacrisis?

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, Nilsi said:

A DIN-A4 poster in a college dorm toilet will be quite underwhelming, of course, but what if we did this on large billboards like the following one?:

We could start rolling this out in key cities around the world and it would go ultra viral. I dont think that people would perceive this as lunacy.

It should have a picture of goatse and the text "this is Moloch, this is what happens when you scroll on TikTok". I'm terribly sorry, I'm sleep deprived 

By the way, I wasn't really pooh-poohing your suggestion. My intention was to add a thought.

Edited January 11 by Carl-Richard

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil

3 hours ago, Israfil said:

Inaction is lunacy too. What is your proposal to resolve the metacrisis?

   My proposal is talk less, do more, something that these systemic thinking philosophical circle jerks aren't taking action much, just talkin. Plus give concrete examples at the end.

[Israfil]

17 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Israfil

   My proposal is talk less, do more, something that these systemic thinking philosophical circle jerks aren't taking action much, just talkin. Plus give concrete examples at the end.

How many people do you think know about the meta crisis? Isn't bringing awareness of the problem part of the example?

If a communicator doesn't act exactly how you want his whole speech is invalid?

Besides, he did give examples of what should be done. Lobbying and directing your life goals towards one of the affected areas of the meta crisis was two examples that I can cite for memory.

Sorry if there isn't a step-by-step process to "fix the entirety of economic, political and social incentives to exponential and life-threatening modes of production". We're working on it.

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil

16 hours ago, Israfil said:

How many people do you think know about the meta crisis? Isn't bringing awareness of the problem part of the example?

If a communicator doesn't act exactly how you want his whole speech is invalid?

Besides, he did give examples of what should be done. Lobbying and directing your life goals towards one of the affected areas of the meta crisis was two examples that I can cite for memory.

Sorry if there isn't a step-by-step process to "fix the entirety of economic, political and social incentives to exponential and life-threatening modes of production". We're working on it.

   Of course he did give some examples, but they're not specific enough, and not compelling enough for me to feel any urgency at all. Sorry, but the rhetoric or persuasion tactics were not there.

   And I don't hate Daniel Schmachtenberger or any systemic thinkers and communicators out there, just make it more practical at the end, other wise the listeners are just mentally masturbating and circle jerking these abstract concepts.

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil  In fact, these talks appeals to the UFOs and Aliens out there way more than to people and humans on this planet, that's how abstract and complicated and jargon this Meta Crisis is! When you're talk is just appealing to UFOs and not people, somewhere something bad has happened in how this is communicated. Sorry, but it's WAY TOO STAGE YELLOW FOR 95% OF THE WORLD POPULATION!

[Danioover9000]

   Good example of how to communicate and cause emotions and motivations, powerful video:

 

[Israfil]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Israfil  In fact, these talks appeals to the UFOs and Aliens out there way more than to people and humans on this planet, that's how abstract and complicated and jargon this Meta Crisis is! When you're talk is just appealing to UFOs and not people, somewhere something bad has happened in how this is communicated. Sorry, but it's WAY TOO STAGE YELLOW FOR 95% OF THE WORLD POPULATION!

But have you considered that the 5% that is ready to listen to it is precisely the target audience of his content?

I do agree with you that most people would ignore this. They can listen to Gary V or another grifter, I don't fucking care.

But someone will listen to it and will internalize the message. Many of the things he said I arrived at intuitively before, and having someone thinking similarly to you in a matter that is important to you is motivating.

Maybe solving the metacrisis is not important to Danioover9k, but to me and to many other people is one of the priorities. Those that don't see this as a priority will eventually do so, if and when this matters to them. The call to action is for everyone, but the actors will always be fewer than the called ones.

Edited January 11 by Israfil

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil

1 minute ago, Israfil said:

But have you considered that the 5% that is ready to listen to it is precisely the target audience of his content?

I do agree with you that most people would ignore this. They can listen to Gary V or another grifter, I don't fucking care.

But someone will listen to it and will internalize the message. Many of the things he said I arrived at intuitively before, and having someone thinking similarly to you in a matter that is important to you is motivating.

Maybe solving the metacrisis is not important to Danioover9k, but to me and to many other people is one of the priorities. Those that don't see this as a priority will do so, if and when this matters to them. The call to action is for everyone, but the actors will always be fewer than the called ones.

   What 5%? Do you mean the 1-5% of rich upper class, instead of the rest of the lower-middle class?

   Great you agree with me that most will ignore his message, so explain to me why would the majority ignore this then? Because they would rather listen to Gary V, therefore they're ignoramuses?

   But some will listen to it is enough justification for not changing his messaging? Because 'someone' thinking similarly is motivating?

   What makes you assume that I don't care to solve the Meta Crisis? 'To me and many people', contradicts your previous statement of 'some' people, the 1-5% that will listen, so which group are you referring to here if his priority is to convince and persuade 'many other people is one of his priorities'? Since this is so important intuitively for you, can you provide your solutions to the Meta Crisis then?  

[Israfil]

13 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Israfil

   What 5%? Do you mean the 1-5% of rich upper class, instead of the rest of the lower-middle class?

   Great you agree with me that most will ignore his message, so explain to me why would the majority ignore this then? Because they would rather listen to Gary V, therefore they're ignoramuses?

   But some will listen to it is enough justification for not changing his messaging? Because 'someone' thinking similarly is motivating?

   What makes you assume that I don't care to solve the Meta Crisis? 'To me and many people', contradicts your previous statement of 'some' people, the 1-5% that will listen, so which group are you referring to here if his priority is to convince and persuade 'many other people is one of his priorities'? Since this is so important intuitively for you, can you provide your solutions to the Meta Crisis then?  

I live in Brazil. I'm not in the 5% of richest people in the world, and this is important to me. I mean is a niche topic and most people are not interested in it.

Most people are not interested in economics and politics in general. Or have a surface-level understanding of it and don't see how important it is to society in general. That's what I'm saying. Most people in the west just listen to guys telling them how to get rich or consume entertainment. I just mentioned Gary V because was the first grifter that came to my mind. You can swap it with another ten thousand names and the argument would stand.

I found his message valid. You are advocating for him to change his messaging because apparently, it is inadequate to you. I can assure you that many people found it inspirational, Nilsi and I are just a few examples of it.

I just assumed you didn't care about the metacrisis because when I directly asked about it as in "Inaction is also lunacy. What is your suggestion to solving the metacrisis?" You immediately returned to the "Daniel didn't speak in the specific way I wish he would, so the message is meaningless" argument you're having this whole discussion.

I will not solve the meta crisis alone, but my entire career, artistic endeavor, and even the upbringing of my future children will be devoted to fixing it. I'll make sure to put my drop in the ocean of labor necessary to fix this thing.

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Nilsi thanks for sharing Nora Oxman here. It opened a whole new view for me. Since young I had loved to question why nature structures are as they are

 

[Israfil]

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Israfil

    Okay, bye bye. Done talking. Clearly you don't know nor care to explain yourself, waste of time. banished into the ignore list.

As I said, I responded to every single one of your points two posts ago. 

Just read it.

[Israfil]

As a proof of good faith, I'll separate my responses in quotes so you can understand.

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   What 5%? Do you mean the 1-5% of rich upper class, instead of the rest of the lower-middle class?

 

 I live in Brazil. I'm not in the 5% of richest people in the world, and this is important to me. What I meant is that it's a niche topic and most people are not interested in it.

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Great you agree with me that most will ignore his message, so explain to me why would the majority ignore this then? Because they would rather listen to Gary V, therefore they're ignoramuses?

 

Most people are not interested in economics and politics in general. Or have a surface-level understanding of it and don't see how important it is to society in general. That's what I'm saying. Most people in the west just listen to guys telling them how to get rich or consume entertainment. I just mentioned Gary V because was the first grifter that came to my mind. You can swap it with another ten thousand names and the argument would stand.

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   But some will listen to it is enough justification for not changing his messaging? Because 'someone' thinking similarly is motivating?

 

I found his message valid. You are advocating for him to change his messaging because apparently, it is inadequate to you. I can assure you that many people found it inspirational, Nilsi and I are just a few examples of it.

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

What makes you assume that I don't care to solve the Meta Crisis? 'To me and many people', contradicts your previous statement of 'some' people, the 1-5% that will listen, so which group are you referring to here if his priority is to convince and persuade 'many other people is one of his priorities'?

I just assumed you didn't care about the metacrisis because when I directly asked about it as in "Inaction is also lunacy. What is your suggestion to solving the metacrisis?" You immediately returned to the "Daniel didn't speak in the specific way I wish he would, so the message is meaningless" argument you're having this whole discussion.

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Since this is so important intuitively for you, can you provide your solutions to the Meta Crisis then?  

I will not solve the meta crisis alone, but my entire career, artistic endeavor, and even the upbringing of my future children will be devoted to fixing it. I'll make sure to put my drop in the ocean of labor necessary to fix this thing.

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil

1 hour ago, Israfil said:

As a proof of good faith, I'll separate my responses in quotes so you can understand.

 I live in Brazil. I'm not in the 5% of richest people in the world, and this is important to me. What I meant is that it's a niche topic and most people are not interested in it.

Most people are not interested in economics and politics in general. Or have a surface-level understanding of it and don't see how important it is to society in general. That's what I'm saying. Most people in the west just listen to guys telling them how to get rich or consume entertainment. I just mentioned Gary V because was the first grifter that came to my mind. You can swap it with another ten thousand names and the argument would stand.

I found his message valid. You are advocating for him to change his messaging because apparently, it is inadequate to you. I can assure you that many people found it inspirational, Nilsi and I are just a few examples of it.

I just assumed you didn't care about the metacrisis because when I directly asked about it as in "Inaction is also lunacy. What is your suggestion to solving the metacrisis?" You immediately returned to the "Daniel didn't speak in the specific way I wish he would, so the message is meaningless" argument you're having this whole discussion.

I will not solve the meta crisis alone, but my entire career, artistic endeavor, and even the upbringing of my future children will be devoted to fixing it. I'll make sure to put my drop in the ocean of labor necessary to fix this thing.

   It's not that I'm arguing that Daniel's messaging is meaningless, I'm arguing that it needs improving, needs some more concrete examples to bring down to earth these very complicated topics that the majority just won't get. But regardless I'm done, dropping the topic, rage quitting and moving on. Please don't ever tag me or mention me again.

[Israfil]

14 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Israfil

   It's not that I'm arguing that Daniel's messaging is meaningless, I'm arguing that it needs improving, needs some more concrete examples to bring down to earth these very complicated topics that the majority just won't get. But regardless I'm done, dropping the topic, rage quitting and moving on. Please don't ever tag me or mention me again.

Suit yourself.

[Rafael Thundercat]

this i think hits the point of explaning how the incentive structure is addicted :

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/media/2022/01/30/conflict-entrepreneurs-amanda-ripley-stelter-rs-vpx.cnn

Conflict entreprenours earn from conflict 

[Danioover9000]

   Latest podcast hosting Daniel Schmachtenberger:

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Danioover9000 Thank You, will watch now and take notes

[Rafael Thundercat]

The thing is: We humans are very bad in using Power, and today we have alot of Power or Powers that we can use both for Creation or Destruction

So, are is just a question of balance of Prometeus and Ephimenteus forces: Fore-Though and After-Though. The Pandora Box is ready open: