Dangers Of Do Nothing Meditation/shikentaza

[SamEuphoria93]

I'm interested in this meditation practice as it is very simple and not forceful like ordinary concentration meditation. However, I'm wary because concentration meditation significantly aggravated my schizophrenia before. What do you guys think? 

-Sam

[Heart of Space]

Could you go into the specifics of the experience?

[Emerald]

18 hours ago, SamEuphoria93 said:

I'm interested in this meditation practice as it is very simple and not forceful like ordinary concentration meditation. However, I'm wary because concentration meditation significantly aggravated my schizophrenia before. What do you guys think? 

-Sam

Meditative practices can parse the barrier between the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. So, even in meditators without schizophrenia, meditation can cause hallucinations in daily life due to the subconscious projecting outward onto reality. Shinzen Young mentioned that he had an issue where he was seeing giant bugs everywhere for a few years, after 4 or 5 years of meditation. But it was okay, because he could tell that they were hallucinatory projections and just detached from them and greeted the issue with awareness and equanimity, just like any other occurrence. So, someone who has Schizophrenia may have more intense issues with this due to having a prone-ness to hallucination. Also, psychosis is a rare but possible symptom of meditation or any kind of spiritual practice. My advice would be to find a teacher who has worked with people with Schizophrenia, so that they can guid you and help prevent you from ending up in a negative place. I would not attempt meditative practice without a psychiatrist's okay and an experienced guide.  Mostly, just make sure that you are very careful, if you should decide to try any spiritual practices. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Emerald

[Prabhaker]

25 minutes ago, SamEuphoria93 said:

aggravated my schizophrenia

If you are schizophrenic , you can't begin with 'do nothing'. You can sit very easily when you are doing something else but the moment you are just sitting and doing nothing, it becomes a problem. And after you have been doing other things that are easier, then you can sit. Begin from where beginning is easy. If you begin with sitting, you will feel much disturbance inside. The more you try to just sit, the more disturbance will be felt; you will become aware only of your insane mind and nothing else.

A person is schizophrenic, split, divided. Psychoanalysis will deal with this split — with how to make this split workable, with how to adjust this man so that he can function, so that he can live in the society peacefully.  It is just super fear, touching here and there, and soon the man will be same again.

 If this man comes to Buddha, Buddha will not talk about the schizophrenic state. He will say, “Meditate so that the inner being becomes one. When the inner being becomes one, the split will disappear on the periphery.” Buddha is not interested in adjusting you in the society, he is interested in your enlightenment.

The anarchy within must be exploded. It should not be stilled or pushed down, it must he expressed in total intensity. Calmness, serenity, nirvana, come not by stilling the mind but by explosion. Then the stillness comes by itself; it is not a cultivated composure. Let Dynamic Meditation be tried as an experiment.

 

[Prabhaker]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

My advice would be to find a teacher who has worked with people with Schizophrenia

Traditional methods have an appeal because they are so ancient and so many people have achieved through them in the past. They may have become irrelevant to us, but they were not irrelevant to Buddha, Mahavira, Patanjali or Krishna. They were meaningful, helpful. The old methods may be meaningless now, but because Buddha achieved through them they have an appeal. The traditionalist feels: “If Buddha achieved through these methods, why can’t I?”

But we are in an altogether different situation now. The whole atmosphere, the whole thought-sphere, has changed. Chaotic methods will help the modern mind because the modern mind is, itself, chaotic. This chaos, this rebelliousness in modern man is, in fact, a rebellion of other things: of the body against the mind and against its suppressions. If we talk about it in yogic terms we can say that it is the rebellion of the heart center and the navel center against the brain.

These centers are against the brain because the brain has monopolized the whole territory of the human soul. This cannot be tolerated any further. That is why universities have become centers of rebellion. It is not accidental. If the whole society is thought of as an organic body, then the university is the head, the brain.

Because of the rebelliousness of the modern mind, it is bound to be lenient toward loose and chaotic methods. Dynamic Meditation will help to move the center of consciousness away from the brain. Then the person using it will never be rebellious, because the cause of rebellion becomes fulfilled. He will be at ease.

[Emerald]

19 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Traditional methods have an appeal because they are so ancient and so many people have achieved through them in the past. They may have become irrelevant to us, but they were not irrelevant to Buddha, Mahavira, Patanjali or Krishna. They were meaningful, helpful. The old methods may be meaningless now, but because Buddha achieved through them they have an appeal. The traditionalist feels: “If Buddha achieved through these methods, why can’t I?”

But we are in an altogether different situation now. The whole atmosphere, the whole thought-sphere, has changed. Chaotic methods will help the modern mind because the modern mind is, itself, chaotic. This chaos, this rebelliousness in modern man is, in fact, a rebellion of other things: of the body against the mind and against its suppressions. If we talk about it in yogic terms we can say that it is the rebellion of the heart center and the navel center against the brain.

These centers are against the brain because the brain has monopolized the whole territory of the human soul. This cannot be tolerated any further. That is why universities have become centers of rebellion. It is not accidental. If the whole society is thought of as an organic body, then the university is the head, the brain.

Because of the rebelliousness of the modern mind, it is bound to be lenient toward loose and chaotic methods. Dynamic Meditation will help to move the center of consciousness away from the brain. Then the person using it will never be rebellious, because the cause of rebellion becomes fulfilled. He will be at ease.

Just to clarify, when I said teacher, I didn't mean academic teacher. I meant a meditation facilitator or master, such as in Zen traditions. My advice was to find someone who could help guide a person with their practice, so that they don't aggravate psychological issues. 

[Arkandeus]

4 minutes ago, Maxx said:

@SamEuphoria93 I think no one here is a psychologist. And even if, no one here knows you personally. No one here knows the details of your shizophrenia. So answering your question is like looking into a crystal ball. Take some responsibility for yourself. You don't even know who is answering you. You could be deceived by an incompentent reply from a twelve year old who is answering you as a sideline while eating cheetos and playing Zelda.

What is wrong with such a twelve year old? the twelve year old with cheetos might have helpful insights one never thought of, one has to keep the quality of infinity in mind. 

One might be 12 years old but you don't know how old their souls are, insights can come from everywhere. 
That's why it's important to be open-minded and trust.
To practice trust towards others, specifically strangers, is a great way to grow spiritually, it's a way to dive into your quality of love. 

 

[Prabhaker]

37 minutes ago, Maxx said:

I think no one here is a psychologist

A person who has overcome his schizophrenia on the path of meditation, or a spiritual teacher who has treated others from schizophrenia can always give his insights. For a Buddha all of us are schizophrenic , schizophrenia is normal state of humanity, some unfortunates who cross the limit are declared as patients. Don't think we are absolutely sane, only a Buddha has absolute sanity, spirituality is way to achieve it.