Of course our true being can suffer

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Water by the River said:

"Ignorance is only a bad idea from the perspective of ignorance." This statement is in line with what you wrote. 

Ok, now I have to think. I do enough of that on my off time. Lol. Thanks for the clarification. 

[UnbornTao]

Without knowing what suffering and ourselves are, first we should have those handled.

Edited January 3 by UnbornTao

[Jowblob]

Here's the truth, everyone that says otherwise isn't awake.

 

suffering never stops. The reason you're here is to elevate your suffering and get to know more about yourself, this is your highest goal forever.

Like Anandamayi Ma has said, being here is a remedy that you have to take from your eternal beingness.

 

Quote from recent avatar, Haidakhan babaji : Work is worship.

Translation, there's nothing else to do besides being an eternal presence, work is a distraction from your pointless eternal beingness and awareness and existence.

Edited January 3 by Jowblob

[Breakingthewall]

31 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

Translation, there's nothing else to do besides being an eternal presence, work is a distraction from your pointless eternal beingness and awareness and existence.

that phrase implies someone who needs to be distracted and does things. That is the perspective of the self, I would say that unlimited reality is more of a natural phenomenon in eternal movement, because the fact of infinity entails endless cyclical movement.

[Jowblob]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

that phrase implies someone who needs to be distracted and does things. That is the perspective of the self, I would say that unlimited reality is more of a natural phenomenon in eternal movement, because the fact of infinity entails endless cyclical movement.

You're only experiencing yourself forever, the cyclical infinity movement that you see is a "waiting room"  your unlimited potential being put on hold waiting for the next action. You're saying this to make yourself feel better, always seeking for the betterment. But there is no betterment, suffering will be in every corner you go.

You're still not awake why existence has to be this way or how balance of life works unfortunately

 

@Breakingthewall

Edited January 3 by Jowblob

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

suffering will be in every corner you go.

It is completely different to suffer knowing what existence is and open yourself to it, than to suffer thinking that you should not suffer and resist it.

[Jowblob]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is completely different to suffer knowing what existence is and open yourself to it, than to suffer thinking that you should not suffer and resist it.

It doesnt work like that, the ego is the causal effect of gods suffering and gods seeking potential brought in action and thats why you're here, you don't understand that god is eternal and doesnt understand itself completely. All paths will eventually lead to the same questions, then it goes on again and again and again.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Jowblob said:

you don't understand that god is eternal and doesnt understand itself completely. All paths will eventually lead to the same questions, then it goes on again and again and again.

In my experience of deep states, reality understands itself completely, is infinite and is free. It dances on itself, it is eternal movement and it is total joy of being, it is spotless beauty, profound perfection. It is the mask of the ego, necessary to drive movement in a certain sense, that experiences suffering, but that suffering is nothing to reality, it is depth and beauty, it is what could be called (at the risk of sounding like a parrot) love.

[Jowblob]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

In my experience of deep states, reality understands itself completely, is infinite and is free. It dances on itself, it is eternal movement and it is total joy of being, it is spotless beauty, profound perfection. It is the mask of the ego, necessary to drive movement in a certain sense, that experiences suffering, but that suffering is nothing to reality, it is depth and beauty, it is what could be called (at the risk of sounding like a parrot) love.

I think you're speaking about purity/clean state when you close your eyes, it is like heaven and bliss, you see endless action or whatever you imagine in its purity. This is not the highest state!! It is something like an ascended master state, or perfect human being state.

Your highest state is a small point of infinite awareness in nothingness, and endless emptiness no matter where you look. Just as haidakhan babaji said  that he was nothingness.

Probably that's why you don't understand the things that i say.

 

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

think you're speaking about purity/clean state when you close your eyes, it is like heaven and bliss,

No , I mean to be without the self. Reality is now, this is like this all the time, and almost all the time there is a filter that evaluates everything and creates structures, that filter is what it seems that I am, since it is perceived as the center of the experience. everything is filtered and valued by it. seeks to get away from suffering. If that filter disappears for a while, reality stops appearing as linear and appears as depth, and then you perceive what it is. But that self is well established and has very solid evolutionary mechanisms, it is in the genes, in the primordial structure of the current configuration of reality, so it always returns.

[Javfly33]

21 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Suffering is an illusion. It is an appearance. God does not suffer. What does God have to suffer about. It is everything.

 

5 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Your true self can't really suffer.

It can only suffer in relative ways. As in, imagining it is human.

@Princess Arabia @Thought Art

So you have never suffered I guess?

Because stop believing the nonsense that you are princess arabia or thought art. That's the character 'God' is playing. The character can NOT suffer because the character is a fucking mental object/illusion/projection. It is not real. 

Is like you say a washing machine can suffer.

So here´s the thing. If you come to a place of recognition that your ego is not a thing, is just a mental concept you love to play around like a wildcard, the only REAL shit that exists is You/God/Awareness.

So now inspect all your life and see if it has been suffering at any moment. If answering YES, then there you go, I just proved to you that God can suffer. Because you are fucking God, right fucking now.

There is No such a thing as princessarabia/thought art as an 'ego' or as an 'human' and then  God 'up there' in the 'truth dimension'. Stop playing these twisted identity games. You are always the Real thing. Now.

The 'Real thing' can be identified with thoughts and indeed suffer. 

 

20 hours ago, Nathan said:

By that rhetoric how is God able to empathise with the felt experience of suffering an entity experiences whilst beleiving they are separate? 

Whenever I suffer I conceptualise god as an out of touch perspective divorced from the felt experience of suffering.

I can sometimes be in a state where I am able to recognise how suffering can be a vehicle to greater compassion but to subject a less aware perspective to suffering without their awareness of its utility (no ability for informed consent) seems antithetical to compassion to me.

It's kind of hard to convey what I really mean because suffering is a topic that I always get stuck on to be honest. I just can't condone suffering in good faith from any vantage point I've lived so far so whenever I suffer I'm always extremely resentful about it. 

Good points. In my view suffering is 'just' God having a hard time with the grandiosity it created. We are in the process of knowing how to handle this creation. 

15 hours ago, Applegarden8 said:

No, you are bliss itself. The moment you tap into it your delusions that suffocate you relaxes.

I´m Bliss but I can get myself in a mess ...  

 

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

 

In my perspective it would be unresonsible to not testify on the release of suffering in truly awakened nondual states. 

Especially if these awakened nondual states are not just temporary highs, but a reality that has become very reliably available right here and now, just by reaching out... 

Selling "the possibility of an end of resistance/suffering to what is arising in the Nondual Reality that You really are" by the River

@Water by the River Of course, I´m not denying that. 🙏

What I mean is Like I said to @Princess Arabia and @Thought Art is that the 'Real Thing' can be identified with thoughts (in a contracted, ego like state of consciousness) and indeed suffer.

Ego or human can not suffer because human body and mind are simply biological objects. They do not have existential reality at all  

Is like saying a knee can suffer. Or a cell can suffer. Or a neuron can suffer. No such a thing. Only what Is Real, is Alive, and Exists can suffer  

Edited January 3 by Javfly33

[Princess Arabia]

12 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Because stop believing the nonsense that you are princess arabia

No kidding. I thought I was. I think most people on here recognize this by now. If they don't, they need an ass whooping from Leo and his broom stick. What I'm saying is the mind has faulty thinking and veiled perceptions. That's why suffering arises. Reality was designed this way for us to Awaken to our true nature which doesn't suffer. Truth doesn't suffer. Only a veiled and distorted egoic mind does.

The closer we get to Truth, the less we suffer.

Edited January 3 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Ego or human can not suffer because human body and mind are simply biological objects. They do not have existential reality at al

Neither does suffering. Where is the existential Reality of or in suffering. God has no form, how can the formless suffer. If you're going to include the notion that the human body is a biological object then you have lost the premise of your argument because the human body is being imagined by God, so is suffering.

[gettoefl]

8 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 

So here´s the thing. If you come to a place of recognition that your ego is not a thing, is just a mental concept you love to play around like a wildcard, the only REAL shit that exists is You/God/Awareness.

the you of which you speak is the one that comes here and proclaims one's extraordinary realization

if that's awakening i have a bridge going cheap if anyone is interested

[Keryo Koffa]

What god are we talking about? A subject god? A person god that can suffer? A god that feels? A god that carries biological intents? A god that imagines humans? Or a god that creates the universe and humans losing itself in it as one? A god that is a vessel for experience? A god that is the experience? A god that is pure being devoid of emotion? Or a god that somehow acquired emotion and projected it onto a universe simulation? A god that forgets? A partial god? Complete god? What even is a complete god? What is not god? Are emotions part of god any more than forms? Is the mental aspect more god than the form aspect? Are we god? Are we a subset of god? Are we a simultaneous multi-projection of god? Does base god even have emotion? Does base god even carry understanding? Does base god remember? Does it learn? Does it already know everything? Is it evolving? What's the nature of this God? How did it acquire its first forms? How did all forms evolve? What is this mental qualia of desire and emotion, suffering and bliss? 

[BlueOak]

Yes you can be anything you are. You can shrink or grow awareness to be that thing entirely.

Part of the detachment from BEING EVERYTHING is saying we are only nothing. It is a necessary development of losing dogmatic conditioning for example, because both are true.

Edited January 4 by BlueOak

[cetus]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:26 AM, Javfly33 said:

Your ego or Mind can not suffer because is not real...

 -True.  Therefore, the suffering is not real as the suffering is created in the illusory ego/mind when the ego mind's illusory desires are not met. Two illusions that bolster each other. Actually, three b-c you can add "pleasure" to the list. Pleasure and suffering set up the persistent illusion of grasping to one while attempting to avoid the other.  The illusory ego/mind constantly grasping for illusory pleasure while attempting to avoid illusory suffering.

[Princess Arabia]

27 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

What god are we talking about? A subject god? A person god that can suffer? A god that feels? A god that carries biological intents? A god that imagines humans? Or a god that creates the universe and humans losing itself in it as one? A god that is a vessel for experience? A god that is the experience? A god that is pure being devoid of emotion? Or a god that somehow acquired emotion and projected it onto a universe simulation? A god that forgets? A partial god? Complete god? What even is a complete god? What is not god? Are emotions part of god any more than forms? Is the mental aspect more god than the form aspect? Are we god? Are we a subset of god? Are we a simultaneous multi-projection of god? Does base god even have emotion? Does base god even carry understanding? Does base god remember? Does it learn? Does it already know everything? Is it evolving? What's the nature of this God? How did it acquire its first forms? How did all forms evolve? What is this mental qualia of desire and emotion, suffering and bliss? 

The Chinese God of Chi Ching Suffering

Edited January 4 by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

Suffering is basically wanting things to be different than they are. If you are sleeping on the street in the freezing rain, dressed in rags and after 5 days without eating, but you want that situation, you will have an interesting time, a sporting challenge. If, on the other hand, it seems to you that things should be completely different, you will suffer. This suffering can make you look for a warm place, better clothes, etc.

The only way not to suffer, or suffer consciously, is to realize that everything serves a purpose, and that purpose in the end is yours. It can be difficult sometimes. If, for example, after giving your best to your children, they bury you in an anthill for fun to watch the ants devour your face for days, it will not be easy to be happy with the situation, but that's life.

[Javfly33]

6 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

. If, for example, after giving your best to your children, they bury you in an anthill for fun to watch the ants devour your face for days, it will not be easy to be happy with the situation, but that's life.

lol

17 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

If you're going to include the notion that the human body is a biological object then you have lost the premise of your argument because the human body is being imagined by God, so is suffering.

It doesn´t matter if God imagines the hammer and the hand, you still suffer the pain.

11 hours ago, gettoefl said:

the you of which you speak is the one that comes here and proclaims one's extraordinary realization

if that's awakening i have a bridge going cheap if anyone is interested

Who said that? 

and stop being disrespectful, this forum is to share insights and ideas. 

6 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

What god are we talking about?

I´m talking simply about You. 

Stop playing identity games.