Hopeless incels support group

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Squeekytoy said:

Yes, therapeutic in this sense is where you keep going in circles without ever getting anywhere with it, because it's all just surface talk. Getting to the root is the only solution for something like this, because the problem is at the root. Nothing else will solve this. The man needs to burn through his chains in whatever way available to him. That's the only thing that matters here.

I agree.

[Israfil]

14 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Yes, therapeutic in this sense is where you keep going in circles without ever getting anywhere with it, because it's all just surface talk. Getting to the root is the only solution for something like this, because the problem is at the root. Nothing else will solve this. The man needs to burn through his chains in whatever way available to him. That's the only thing that matters here.

I'm just trying to fundament my advice with reasoning. 

[Emotionalmosquito]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:32 PM, Israfil said:

but he always finds an excuse to keep commiserating and complaining about how there's no magic pill to solve his problems

 

On 1/2/2024 at 10:35 AM, Princess Arabia said:

Finally, stop rebutting every single advice to you. Stop making excuses as to why this and why that -

I really wish people could understand I’m not trying to make excuses just for the purpose of staying stuck. I’d love more than anything to be unstuck (which for me means nothing more than getting women) even if it means staying mentally ill. Women are what I want AND need, fixing my life/mind is only what I need. 

My “excuses” are very tangible obstacles in my path that I’ve tried to overcome for years (using some of your very suggestions) and only rather recently stopped trying. When you guys say I keep making excuses instead of applying the advice im given, what this feels like to me (to use an analogy) is if I was being brutally bullied every week in school, and when I told you how some of what you said to stop them didn’t work, you come back by saying I must not have applied it correctly or I’m just trying to come up with reasons as to why I’m powerless to escape the situation. Maybe I tried fighting them back, but it only got my ass handed to me ten times harder. So I tried getting stronger and learning some fighting skills, this is decent in a 1v1 scenario but it’s less than useless vs six of them. I tried reporting them to school officials, they dismissed it as good old fashioned “boys will be boys” rough housing, that and they can’t punish them too harshly because they represent the school’s athletic divisions. Once again, they bully even harder in retaliation. So I try reasoning or befriending them, that too backfires. 

So now what? I’m broken, traumatized and nearly suicidal from the torment of these monsters. My will to continue the fight is all but gone because I’ve failed countless times. Obviously I’ll be skeptical of further advice from this position. “Skeptical” not completely dismissive. Meaning if you can logically prove beyond any possible doubt I might have that I will indeed start seeing good results if I continue trying instead of saying I’m just trying to be argumentative, then I can give it another shot. I’ll give it another shot regardless, but at least if you can prove how much bullshit my current outlook is, I’ll feel much better about further applying what I’ve been told. Because I don’t think it’s bullshit at all. 

(Side note: These bullies are usually the ones who get the hottest girls in school, ironically enough)

This isn’t a perfect analogy but I think you see the point. Of course I’m going to have objections to what is suggested to me. It’s not because I’m trying to avoid facing the challenges, it’s not because I’m trying to be lazy, it’s not because I’m trying to prove anyone wrong. It’s because there are very real, very clear and very stubborn problems with it. And don’t think that what works for some or most will work for all. 

I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to want all my objections addressed in a way that makes sense to me. You @Israfil already dispelled one of them when you told me that woman got kicked from the club for groping you. I was under the impression that men’s rights had already eroded to the point where women were immune to facing consequences for that. 

If my stance is so ridiculous then surely it must be quite easy to poke enough holes in it to where it can no longer be sustained.

On 1/2/2024 at 10:35 AM, Princess Arabia said:

Not posting videos of guys ranting on about young girls grabbing asses and if the shoe was on the other foot, men would be chastised for that while still saying he enjoyed it.

I’m gonna sound nit picky here but you’ve mentioned this a few times already so I’ll start here for now. It doesn’t matter that he enjoyed being grabbed, what matters — and the entire point of the video — is that had he done that to her, he could be in much deeper shit than whatever consequence she could face for that action, worst that could happen to her is being told to leave. Worst that could happen to him is sexual misconduct on his permanent record. 

Any straight guy would thoroughly enjoy it if a girl anything above a 5/10, which most of those girls were, grabbed him by the behind of god forbid the front. But no matter her looks, any man with a decent sense of justice should react to that violation by reporting her and trying to get her in as much trouble as legally possible because that’s exactly what she would do to him if he did that. Either both sexes feel free to grope or neither do. Can’t be one or the other because that is not fair.

On 1/2/2024 at 10:35 AM, Princess Arabia said:

or SP videos. 

What if dua lipa is my sp? If you have any LoA videos you think will work for me, post them. I need something that works fast because my patience is not just gone, it’s dropped way down into the negatives. I haven’t had success with jack shit despite doing several of the techniques. And it’s not because I’m saying stuff like “I haven’t had success with jack shit despite doing several of the techniques”, it’s because it’s not working even though I’m telling myself it is already done and I already have it but it still doesn’t show up.

 

[Emotionalmosquito]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:46 PM, Israfil said:

the OP's situation is of being thirsty in a river of alpine clear water.

More like lips sewn shut in Death Valley after being force fed a bunch of salt

On 1/3/2024 at 4:46 PM, Israfil said:

What I said is that his obsession and disregard for others make people go away from him. Unless he resolves his trauma and works on himself, he won't be able to properly relate with people. 

Traumatized men end up getting tons of pussy all the time. I want to be like them. I don’t care if it hurts the girls in the process 

[Epikur]

@Emotionalmosquito

Quote

 Women are what I want AND need, fixing my life/mind is only what I need. 

No you do no need them. You think you need them. Big difference. Also you think you want them. I don't think you really want them because you don't know them and you don't know you. So relax accept that your brain is crazy. Know that you should not trust your brain or feelings. 

Edited January 5 by Epikur

[Princess Arabia]

36 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I don’t care if it hurts the girls in the process 

Ugg. That's all i have to say on that. Uggggg. I have nothing more to say to you. Goodbye.

Edited January 5 by Princess Arabia

[Emotionalmosquito]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:18 PM, Shrooms_Alvarez said:

I’m somewhat hesitant to express myself fully here and elsewhere due to fear of criticism

I used to be that way here, now my only thing is I refuse to put myself out on the internet like name and face. I’m mostly comfortable opening up if it’s just through text. I’d say just go for it, but then again, easier said than done. I’m the king of “easier said than done.”

On 1/3/2024 at 4:18 PM, Shrooms_Alvarez said:

I won’t share it here but if you’re still interested I can send it through PM.

Definitely hit me up and give me everything you got. My main concern with that is getting caught up in a sting op, so if you have a reliable source I’m all in 

3 hours ago, Epikur said:

Know that you should not trust your brain or feelings.

Well that will make things tricky  What else is there besides our brain and feelings?

3 hours ago, Epikur said:

No you do no need them. You think you need them. Big difference. Also you think you want them. I don't think you really want them

Yes I do! The healing power of female affection is not to be underestimated. Last time I got a 3 second hug from a solid 9/10 was three and a half years ago and it felt like I was on a low dose of mdma for days afterwards. And that was just dipping my foot in the hot tub. So imagine a full submersion 

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Ugg. That's all i have to say on that. Uggggg. I have nothing more to say to you. Goodbye.

Don’t act so surprised now. You had to have known what you were dealing with when you read the op. Btw I didn’t mean beating them up or anything serious like that, I meant more along the lines of cheating or doing anything it takes to get some action limited only by the law. That could mean putting on an act only to later reveal I’m not the kind of guy I presented as, or cheating. Both of which would probably be painful for her, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

On 1/3/2024 at 4:32 PM, Israfil said:

I've seen some statements on how OP approaches people and what he desires and expects from his interactions, especially with women, and I can guarantee you that he doesn't extend his empathy to how other people feel, and what they desire.

It’s really not that bad. Sure, I may not feel for others like I once did because of all the negativity they’ve cursed upon me. But I never just straight up disrespect people unless they do so to me first. Extending your empathy to what others feel and their desires is a two way street. Am I supposed to give that courtesy even when they don’t?

Let’s take another look at the golden rule: “Do unto others as you would have them do to you.”  

You do think the golden rule is valid, do you or no?

I know I do, I live by it. 

Now let’s say people start regularly coming up to me comfortable enough to share embarrassing stories about themselves and talk about all manner of wacky taboos like fapping and periods and farts and death and crazy fetishes and everything. Do you think I would be appalled or would I appreciate them breaking the monotony of boring ass small talk and arbitrary social norms? I think the answer is clear. 

Now say I start talking about that stuff with people. Does it get received well by the majority or does it get me blown out majority of the time? Also clear. Not only that but I’m apparently also being disrespectful when I act towards others the way I’d love it if they acted towards me?

I’m following the golden rule as it’s commanded yet it’s not getting me good results (most of the time, some people are cool they’re just not always easy to find) 

The golden rule says to treat others the way you want to be treated. It doesn’t say “Treat others how you want to be treated so long as you know what you want is the same as what they want”

Should it be updated?

It probably sounds like I’m just trying to pick a bone again but this is actually a good point that hasn’t been addressed yet.

Edited January 5 by Emotionalmosquito

[numbersinarow]

I wish I never made contact with a girl's skin, because then I could sort of be the ultimate example of how the world really is in terms of intimacy and relationships.

So, it is the opposite.

I've accepted the utter opportunity-lack. I've even had supernatural and psy experiences relating to it. I have seen the truth. But it's a trans-rational truth so I can't truly communicate it.

But luckily I embody this truth on a daily basis. I can't think of heterosexuality without being mindblown. I can't think of a girl acting cruel towards one man and literally engaging in >sexual acts< with any other man (without clear differences), without being mindblown. I am living in a trans-rational reality and aware of it.

I think others can see the absurdity too, to whichever extent it may be. If you're red-pilled, you are 100% right that the "unrealistic" things people think of are actually realistic. Casual sex? It's realistic. Cold approach day game asking for sex? It's realistic too. It is in fact a thing for the winners. Things like getting kissed/hugged without having to flirt happen. Just not to the losers. Now imagine the "loser's" life. (AKA there's no "unrealistic" only winners and losers.) This difference is necessarily the result of how girls use their free will, and absurd.

Imagine the same lack of empathy that you receive, being received by men who are successful with women.

[numbersinarow]

On 1/1/2024 at 4:06 PM, mr_engineer said:

I've had my low points. But this->

This is not supposed to happen. 

If you're living alone, I'd rather you live with your mom than be thinking these thoughts. I don't care how toxic/dysfunctional that relationship is. I'd rather you give up the battle to make it on your own, admit defeat and live with your mom, than be in a state where you're so stuck that the only relief you see is to do something heinous. 

If you're stuck, take a step back. 

Evolutionary psychology disagrees.

Why should I live for the sake of someone else, who themselves is a self-interested sociopath?

[mr_engineer]

2 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

Evolutionary psychology disagrees.

Why should I live for the sake of someone else, who themselves is a self-interested sociopath?

If living on your own, going to therapy and doing shadow-work isn't enough for you to heal your trauma (because the trauma is so much that it overwhelms you), you probably need more time and energy, logistically, to get this done. And, if you live with your family, you will see all of the dysfunctionalities and root-causes of your traumas to begin with. 

It is understandable that your trauma would make you want to give up. But, I would give the process of healing trauma my best shot before giving up. And, sometimes, you gotta move back in with your parents to put your finger on the root-causes and heal the traumas. 

[ZenAlex]

On 03/01/2024 at 9:17 PM, Squeekytoy said:

Reality doesn't care about morals. It's just how the psyche works. If you only ever get rejected by the one thing that you think will make you whole, it is as devastating as losing a child. Both are strictly psychological and cause the exact same grief through the exact same mechanisms. You can't dismiss one without dismissing the other. If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, you will dismiss both.

"if you only ever get rejected by the one thing that you think will make you whole, it is as devastating as losing a child"

Have you ever lost a child in such a brutal way? If not, how the fuck can you compare the two? That's the point!

What I'm saying is if you're not a parent who's lost a child in such a horrible way, don't compare the grief you don't understand with grief of something obviously far less tragic.

I'm not invalidating your grief, I'm saying you're comparing your grief to a form of grief you couldn't even begin to fathom.

I'm not dismissing anything, I'm saying your comparison is stupid. You talk like someone who tries to make themselves sound a lot smarter than they actually hard.

My point is hardly difficult to grasp. How could you possibly know that your grief of not being able to get laid is comparable to losing a child to a horrible accident and seeing the remains of their corpse?

And by the way, your belief that getting laid or finding a relationship will make you whole is a massive assumption. You don't know this, there are plenty of people with good families, relationships, kids, sex/romantic lives that still kill themselves because of underlying problems.

You don't know that acquiring a partner will make you as happy as you think it will. 

 

 

[nistake]

How are you with self-love? Can you accept yourself? Can you be satisfied alone or do you have a needy vibe? How authentic are you? How honest are you with yourself and others? What do you hope to gain by having a girlfriend?

[bebotalk]

Incels are lost.

They didn't get there are trends we're all affected by, that transcend us as individuals. 

The hotties they despise might suffer from sexism. The chads they envy might have their own struggles. 

We're all born into systems, laid down by people who lived long ago. This includes for the most part dating norms. Some of these are arguably biological, such as women's height preferences. 

Incels need mental help, since they have blind spots in which they don't "get" points of life. 

They didn't get that humans aren't owed anything, and most things we have to work and fight for. 

Or they can design a world where everybody is equally privileged. Good luck to them on that.

I wonder if incels who come from rich families, who love them, support them, and ensure they get good education and healthcare realise THAT is a privilege. A child soldier in Africa, or a sweatshop worker in Bangladesh, would love that privilege too. But they won't see it that way. They'd retort that "sex is important cos SOCIETY SAYS SO!" yes, this is true in part. But part of modern sex positivity is also that one doesn't have to be sexual if one doesn't want to be. Incels are blinded and intransigent. Well, growing up without being forced to kill people is something most nay all would want. As is being a six-year-old kid who is forced to make clothes, shoes, or household goods. Few if any would choose to be in such a position. But no....incels have it so worse, when sex isn't even a true need, and being made to be a killer when very young, or working 20-hour days as a tiny kid won't fuck a person up for life psychologically. 

It's no surprise imho that incels show a higher than average prevalence of neurodiversity. As youngsters, they probably "didn't get" lots of things, so it led to the formation of a warped mindset that has emerged as contemporary inceldom. 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.1235929/full

Incels warrant sympathy - hence they should be given mental help and support. If this means aid in schools or universities, so be it. 

[Israfil]

4 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I’m following the golden rule as it’s commanded yet it’s not getting me good results (most of the time, some people are cool they’re just not always easy to find) 

The golden rule says to treat others the way you want to be treated. It doesn’t say “Treat others how you want to be treated so long as you know what you want is the same as what they want”

You are taking it too literally. In the same way, you don't want to address certain topics, other people don't want to address some topics too. Those may not be the same, but the result is being bothered anyway. For them is the weird shit you're into, for you is small talk. So, if you were to talk to them, you could find topics different than those. For example, talk about something interesting or a hobby, and you'll find better results. 

And yes, the rule means that if you want people to have empathy with you, have it with them. 

[Israfil]

38 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

Incels are lost.

They didn't get there are trends we're all affected by, that transcend us as individuals. 

The hotties they despise might suffer from sexism. The chads they envy might have their own struggles. 

We're all born into systems, laid down by people who lived long ago. This includes for the most part dating norms. Some of these are arguably biological, such as women's height preferences. 

Incels need mental help, since they have blind spots in which they don't "get" points of life. 

They didn't get that humans aren't owed anything, and most things we have to work and fight for. 

Or they can design a world where everybody is equally privileged. Good luck to them on that.

I wonder if incels who come from rich families, who love them, support them, and ensure they get good education and healthcare realise THAT is a privilege. A child soldier in Africa, or a sweatshop worker in Bangladesh, would love that privilege too. But they won't see it that way. They'd retort that "sex is important cos SOCIETY SAYS SO!" yes, this is true in part. But part of modern sex positivity is also that one doesn't have to be sexual if one doesn't want to be. Incels are blinded and intransigent. Well, growing up without being forced to kill people is something most nay all would want. As is being a six-year-old kid who is forced to make clothes, shoes, or household goods. Few if any would choose to be in such a position. But no....incels have it so worse, when sex isn't even a true need, and being made to be a killer when very young, or working 20-hour days as a tiny kid won't fuck a person up for life psychologically. 

It's no surprise imho that incels show a higher than average prevalence of neurodiversity. As youngsters, they probably "didn't get" lots of things, so it led to the formation of a warped mindset that has emerged as contemporary inceldom. 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.1235929/full

Incels warrant sympathy - hence they should be given mental help and support. If this means aid in schools or universities, so be it. 

Couldn't agree more. OP once again ignored that the crux of my advice is "fix your head".

Unless you drop the incel framework and workout deep-rooted trauma, you'll feel alienated. I have felt that way and sex didn't help it. Inner work is key. 

[Princess Arabia]

9 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Don’t act so surprised now. You had to have known what you were dealing with when you read the op. Btw I didn’t mean beating them up or anything serious like that, I meant more along the lines of cheating or doing anything it takes to get some action limited only by the law. That could mean putting on an act only to later reveal I’m not the kind of guy I presented as, or cheating. Both of which would probably be painful for her, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Ok, I misunderstood. I took it as you saying you didn't care how the girl you were having sex with was feeling. Even worse than that. Without getting into how i took it and how I misunderstood your remark, I sincerely apologize for mine. It was a bit rough and I was a bit abrupt, but that's just how I am when something rubs me the wrong way as far as insensitivity goes. I should, in the future, ask for clarity of what one means when they say something of that nature before coming to my own conclusions of what I think they meant. I am also applying this to other aspects of my life because I'm realizing how interpretation can be very misleading and can create unnecessary emotional baggage in one's life. 

This is one way I use the forum; to improve upon my communication skills as there's nothing like doing it in real time as opposed to just reading about it or acquiring knowledge about it. 

Again, I misinterpreted you and reacted that way because it showed lack of empathy in the worst way in how I interpreted it and gave me an icky feeling in my stomach, and because you and i have a decent rapport here, I didn't want to continue it knowing (I felt anyway) that you would intentionally hurt a woman you were having sex with knowing how sensitive something like this can be for some women. 

[MrTelepath]

11 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Definitely hit me up and give me everything you got. My main concern with that is getting caught up in a sting op, so if you have a reliable source I’m all in 

I'm having an issue starting PMs but it seems like I can receive them and then send messages from there on. Message me instead and I'll share the Escort Websites.

[Emotionalmosquito]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:39 PM, Squeekytoy said:

Don't expect empathy from someone in this state. If you've been in that state, you know that all you want to do is burn everything to the ground, empathy be damned. And you would be right!

Reality is infinite love, give me a break. If you'd said that to me 10 years ago I would have choked the life out of you, and still not regret it today.

 

This guy gets it!

On 1/3/2024 at 4:32 PM, Israfil said:

I've tried many times to advise OP, but he always finds an excuse to keep commiserating and complaining about how there's no magic pill to solve his problems.

Don’t get me wrong. I know if I gave it enough effort the stuff you’ve been saying could help me, like getting involved in community functions and taking up hobbies. But remember, you’re talking to someone whose patience and will power is at -200% at best. I’ve also tried some of that stuff and failed. Worst thing of all is my city is as good as useless opportunity-wise and I’m nowhere close to being in a position where moving out would be feasible. Your advice is also (correct me if I’m wrong) aimed towards setting me up for deep and long term relationships with a partner. All I’m interested in is short term, no strings attached relationships where I get rejuvenated by a few weeks or months at a time with fun and reasonably attractive (my standards aren’t outlandish by any means, so no problem there) girlfriends.

You say I need to resolve my animosity towards women, you even say that’s the very thing that’s scaring them off. Though I know for a fact there are men just as misogynistic as I am who still manage to pull mad bitches. What’s to stop me from being one of them? What I’m saying is if those guys exist, there’s obviously some way to get good at pulling girls without having to go through the grueling process of healing traumas first.

 

 

[Yimpa]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:39 PM, Squeekytoy said:

Reality is infinite love, give me a break. If you'd said that to me 10 years ago I would have choked the life out of you, and still not regret it today.

 

[Emotionalmosquito]

On 1/5/2024 at 2:25 PM, Princess Arabia said:

I took it as you saying you didn't care how the girl you were having sex with was feeling. Even worse than that.

Don’t worry. I’m most certainly not trying to rape anyone if that’s the impression you got. Though that leads me to another thing that makes this virtually impossible situation all the more discouraging: Even if the girl doesn’t tell you she’s not enjoying it during the act, it still counts as a rape in legal terms. Even if you had no way of knowing because she didn’t give you the slightest hint of resistance in the moment. Heck, she can even decide she regrets it well after the fact and still slap you with a life ruining sexual assault charge over it. See retroactive consent 

On 1/5/2024 at 5:45 AM, ZenAlex said:

You talk like someone who tries to make themselves sound a lot smarter than they actually hard.

 

Thanks for calling that out. Sometimes I wonder if the way I write makes me sound pretentious or verbose.

By all means if you catch me misusing a word or phrasing something weirdly, point it out 

On 1/5/2024 at 5:45 AM, ZenAlex said:

You don't know that acquiring a partner will make you as happy as you think it will. 

 

I know it won’t make me happy. Just as an exercise routine or a healthy diet won’t. Sure helps though. I’m not looking for happiness, I’m looking for what I’ve missed out on all my life. I’m willing to have all the sexual experience I could ever dream of at the cost of never being happy 

On 1/5/2024 at 5:45 AM, ZenAlex said:

Have you ever lost a child in such a brutal way? If not, how the fuck can you compare the two? That's the point!

I could say the same thing about my situation. Has a grieving mother ever been repeatedly shamed and belittled for trying to get that baby? Has she seen others have success in the exact same methods of flirting that when she does it it’s considered ‘sexual harassment’? Has she ever been having a great time expanding out of her comfort zone with the opposite sex only to be confronted by some rotten, cock sucking authority figures saying “We can’t have you bothering the men, you need to leave.” Has she experienced such overwhelming jealousy at the sight of happy couples that she wants to bash her head against a brick wall until her brain spills out onto the floor? All this in the context of having raging hormones screaming in her ear every single day of her life demanding her to experience physical intimacy and connection with another human? 

Absolutely not. Because if she had, she would’ve never been able to get the baby in the first place.

On 1/5/2024 at 5:45 AM, ZenAlex said:

I'm saying you're comparing your grief to a form of grief you couldn't even begin to fathom.

Neither of us can fathom the other’s grief until we’ve been through it. I picked that video because it’s the closest thing I’ve seen to what I feel like at my worst. If we continue, all this comparison will amount to is a more sophisticated version of the age old “period cramps vs being kicked in the balls” pissing contest. There are too many variables at play to conclusively determine which is worse. 

But I’ll leave it at this saying you’ve probably heard before: It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.”