How to quit sugar

[AmandaPanda]

5 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

May sound stupid, but with enough sugar and fat, coffee will not sufficiently increase alertness (unless you have problems falling asleep, perhaps) and increase glutamaminergic neurotransmition (because of the antagonism of adenosine receptors, in short) + anti-opioid action of coffee will increase the quality of sleep by boosting oxidative phosphorylation.
People report getting good sleep while on cannabis, because THC increases dopamine/norephedrine.

Benzodiazepines, related molecules (gabapentin, pregabalin, GHB, GBL...) may help you fall asleep initially because GABA and reduces alertness by "automatically" antagonizing adrenaline, but above all you will have feeling like you're teleported to the next day after a bad sleep.

BiOmEcHaNiC bAbBy 

 

You said “may sound stupid” and then proceeded to give me a detailed and insightful response that challenged even my own nerdiness in ways that had my heart in palpitations. This made me want to rethink my “no-caffeine” stance. I quit a few months ago and am not sure yet if the benefits outweigh the potential risks yet.

 

Edited January 20 by AmandaPanda

[Leo Gura]

I don't think sugar is that bad for you in moderation. I think the real problem isn't the sugar, but the highly processed garbage that it's usually put inside and the massive quantities of it you eat.

Edited January 21 by Leo Gura

[Osaid]

If you do intermittent fasting, and pay very close attention to how the food makes you feel when you put it in your body, your diet will automatically solve itself.

And yes, "removing sugar" is not really a worthwhile goal by itself. What does that even mean? Your body will naturally produce glucose in the absence of it. Moderating sugar by paying attention to your body is the way to go, not some overly logical and formulaic "no sugar allowed."

Edited January 21 by Osaid

[mmKay]

I did this challenge back in 2019. May be insightful for you

 

[AmandaPanda]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't think sugar is that bad for you in moderation. I think the real problem isn't the sugar, but the highly processed garbage that it's usually put inside and the massive quantities of it you eat.

This is true, I lost 60 pounds and feel a lot healthier from cutting out as much processed as I could and quitting soda.

 

I used to literally wonder how people lived without Mountain Dew or hot Cheetos and now I wonder how I ever “lived off” it.

[AmandaPanda]

17 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

In this case I see it as a counter against the inadvertent hack that is sugar, which you're practically force-fed all your life if you eat anything but home-made anything and gets you addicted.

I have no particular plans to do more than just returning to normal eating habits, but to do so I could definitely use some simple, high-leverage tricks for correcting course.

I like this, sugar is a hack I use unconsciously for comfort or quick calories, sugar is the hack I want to avoid!

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, AmandaPanda said:

This is true, I lost 60 pounds and feel a lot healthier from cutting out as much processed as I could and quitting soda.

 

I used to literally wonder how people lived without Mountain Dew or hot Cheetos and now I wonder how I ever “lived off” it.

Nice! Reminds me of this video:

 

[AmandaPanda]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Nice! Reminds me of this video:

 

Oh wow I watched this long ago but definitely going to rewatch.

[Ash55]

well, i took me like 8 years to cut sugar 99.5% of the time but white flour is almost as bad too, tho you can eat small dosage of sugar i choice to cut it almost completely (there is a tiny quantities i took from buying a snakes small quantity from raw chocolate and Vanilla for cooking and tiny bit of it in a hot chocolate drink i consumed several time) 

you need to be very mindful about your body, replace sugar with fruits and sugar healthy alternatives like pure honey etc, you need to know exactly what you are eating read products descriptions ingredients very carefully,

read books like atomic habit and the power of habits, you can't just unwise the habit easily at first, it takes some time  you might need  to replace it with different habit 

learn to make food that you enjoy and it feels great to eat and that takes a LOT of effort to wire new habit and to get used to it
sugar is super addictive and its quite hard to quite but possible


edit adding:
avoid any soda like completely that drink contains insane amount of unhealthy sugar 

do more fasting maybe once a week
or fast for a month

try different fasting

try different diet like keto too,

maybe invest more money into buying more expensive raw ingredient and spend sometime making that perfect fish dish
once you try to eat well for a while you dont wanna go back  

practice things like kryia yoga it can flow you naturally into a more healthy holistic diet


you can run away from sugar or invest a lot more love into your eating habit diet and food by preparing quality expensive food at home

Edited January 22 by Ash55

[Osaid]

Replacing pure sugar is actually very very easy in and of itself. You can replace it with sugar alcohols like monk fruit or erythritol which taste the exact same as normal sugar and have zero effect on blood sugar, or use something like honey. Many companies have started using such ingredients in their products as well. There is really not much need for it in your household at all.

[ambigcr]

Stevia is a good plant leaf concentrate to diminish your sweet tooth in food and drinks you prepare. It alkalizes instead of acidifies which is one of the issues with processed sugar and the 3 typical sugar substitutes. It's not magic, but over weeks and months, you will find that drinks and snacks you used  to enjoy taste "sickly" sweet.  If you force feed yourself these sweets then you will reset your taste buds, otherwise, you will find yourself wanting to dilute drinks you used to enjoy with water. You can also play around with growing Stevia yourself, but Trader Joes has reasonable prices for it. Good Luck. 

[Schizophonia]

5 hours ago, Ash55 said:

well, i took me like 8 years to cut sugar 99.5% of the time but white flour is almost as bad too, tho you can eat small dosage of sugar i choice to cut it almost completely (there is a tiny quantities i took from buying a snakes small quantity from raw chocolate and Vanilla for cooking and tiny bit of it in a hot chocolate drink i consumed several time) 

you need to be very mindful about your body, replace sugar with fruits and sugar healthy alternatives like pure honey etc, you need to know exactly what you are eating read products descriptions ingredients very carefully,

read books like atomic habit and the power of habits, you can't just unwise the habit easily at first, it takes some time  you might need  to replace it with different habit 

learn to make food that you enjoy and it feels great to eat and that takes a LOT of effort to wire new habit and to get used to it
sugar is super addictive and its quite hard to quite but possible


edit adding:
avoid any soda like completely that drink contains insane amount of unhealthy sugar 

do more fasting maybe once a week
or fast for a month

try different fasting

try different diet like keto too,

maybe invest more money into buying more expensive raw ingredient and spend sometime making that perfect fish dish
once you try to eat well for a while you dont wanna go back  

practice things like kryia yoga it can flow you naturally into a more healthy holistic diet


you can run away from sugar or invest a lot more love into your eating habit diet and food by preparing quality expensive food at home

There is no differences between fruit/honey's sugar and white sugar.

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

Replacing pure sugar is actually very very easy in and of itself. You can replace it with sugar alcohols like monk fruit or erythritol which taste the exact same as normal sugar and have zero effect on blood sugar, or use something like honey. Many companies have started using such ingredients in their products as well. There is really not much need for it in your household at all.

Starch influences more blood sugar than sugar, most of the time.

Orange Juice's GI is 48.

White Sugar 68.

Edited January 22 by Schizophonia

[Osaid]

9 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

There is no differences between fruit/honey's sugar and white sugar.

The different ratios of fructose would impact blood sugar and metabolism differently. Honey is mostly fructose, which has a lower impact on blood sugar than sucrose. 

9 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Starch influences more blood sugar than sugar, most of the time.

Orange Juice's GI is 48.

White Sugar 68.

Interesting, I didn't even know white sugar still had starch in it. But on the other hand, orange juice would have a different ratio of fructose and fiber or whatever else, but at the same time, what grocery stores consider to be orange juice is essentially just diluted sugar syrup created through orange juice concentrate.

The affect of starch on blood sugar is not much of a concern when it comes to whole foods, because it always occurs alongside lots of fiber and other nutrients in nature which keep blood sugar stable; potatoes, wheat, etc. I would say this is only worth considering when it comes to pure or added starch. Otherwise, there is much more nuance to sift through, like how pasta causes lower blood sugar than bread which uses same flour, or even just depending on how you cook it.

[Schizophonia]

20 hours ago, Osaid said:

The different ratios of fructose would impact blood sugar and metabolism differently. Honey is mostly fructose, which has a lower impact on blood sugar than sucrose. 

Interesting, I didn't even know white sugar still had starch in it. But on the other hand, orange juice would have a different ratio of fructose and fiber or whatever else, but at the same time, what grocery stores consider to be orange juice is essentially just diluted sugar syrup created through orange juice concentrate.

The affect of starch on blood sugar is not much of a concern when it comes to whole foods, because it always occurs alongside lots of fiber and other nutrients in nature which keep blood sugar stable; potatoes, wheat, etc. I would say this is only worth considering when it comes to pure or added starch. Otherwise, there is much more nuance to sift through, like how pasta causes lower blood sugar than bread which uses same flour, or even just depending on how you cook it.

Honestly, all of this falls within a reductionist field of reflection and ultimately has virtually no significant importance.
Have you ever known someone who became sick, obese or whatever because they cooked their pasta longer? Or because he ate sugar here and there? Does anyone here seriously think that the few polyphenols in honey and fruit will radically change glucose metabolism? lol

I'm not saying that you have to eat anything like I'm sometimes criticized for, I just want to convey the idea that the body copes much better than you could imagine when you're stuck in one point of view. at least a little orthorexic. Most of the time it's just unnecessary stress.

And to make a small digression, it is not only the homeostatic capacities of their body that people tend to underestimate, they are also excessively worried about everything and anything: their intelligence, their physique, their character, their future, etc and basically anything and everything.
All for nothing.

20 hours ago, Osaid said:

The different ratios of fructose would impact blood sugar and metabolism differently. Honey is mostly fructose, which has a lower impact on blood sugar than sucrose. 

The ratio of glucose/fructose/sucrose or whatever mono/oligosaccharides you want doesn't matter.

Otherwise, it seems to me that in their joint video, Haidut explained to Paul Saladino that products like corn syrup contained indigestible starch debris that could be inflammatory to the digestive system.
I couldn't tell if this is true or just relevant in the real world (meaningful).

Quote

Interesting, I didn't even know white sugar still had starch in it.

I didn't say that. 

Maybe I expressed myself wrong, idk.

Quote

But on the other hand, orange juice would have a different ratio of fructose and fiber or whatever else, but at the same time, what grocery stores consider to be orange juice is essentially just diluted sugar syrup created through orange juice concentrate.

The most fragile vitamins like vitamin C can be largely destroyed, especially if your orange juice is made from a concentrate.
But it is still very nutritious and even contains anti-estrogenic compounds.

Unless perhaps you put your orange juice in a particle accelerator, the minerals, most of the polyphenols and vitamins are preserved and explains why you see the "orange" smell, you recognize the smell of orange, the unique taste etc, eh eh.

Either way, it's probably still much more nutritious than rice or pasta.

Quote

The affect of starch on blood sugar is not much of a concern when it comes to whole foods, because it always occurs alongside lots of fiber and other nutrients in nature which keep blood sugar stable; potatoes, wheat, etc. I would say this is only worth considering when it comes to pure or added starch. Otherwise, there is much more nuance to sift through, like how pasta causes lower blood sugar than bread which uses same flour, or even just depending on how you cook it.

There are whole/natural products with high/very high GI (tubers, squash, bananas, watermelons, etc.)
There are refined products with a low GI (basically anything that contains fructose)

Edited January 23 by Schizophonia

[Osaid]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Honestly, all of this falls within a reductionist field of reflection and ultimately has virtually no significant importance.
Have you ever known someone who became sick, obese or whatever because they cooked their pasta longer? Or because he ate sugar here and there? Does anyone here seriously think that the few polyphenols in honey and fruit will radically change glucose metabolism? lol

I'm not saying that you have to eat anything like I'm sometimes criticized for, I just want to convey the idea that the body copes much better than you could imagine when you're stuck in one point of view. at least a little orthorexic. Most of the time it's just unnecessary stress.

And to make a small digression, it is not only the homeostatic capacities of their body that people tend to underestimate, they are also excessively worried about everything and anything: their intelligence, their physique, their character, their future, etc and basically anything and everything.
All for nothing.

My point is that there are ways of consuming carbohydrates which have a significant difference in absorption despite being the same type of carbohydrate. Fructose, as you know, has a different effect despite being sugar. There is nuance which does have importance, because it is literally metabolized differently.

My stance is much more holistic than measuring polyphenols or just sugar spikes. You will quite literally feel experientially different consuming something like pizza even if you exactly measured it to have the same amount of sugar as something like fruit. The fiber in fruit definitely also curbs the increase in blood sugar. Not to mention, honey will taste sweeter than just plain table sugar, which causes you to naturally consume less of it. There are many factors beyond just polyphenols and sugar increases. The fiber, the taste, the vitamins, all play a part in how you interact with the sugar.

I would never become obese or sick from consuming some amount of table sugar daily because it is maladaptive consumption that causes those types of chronic problems. But at the same time, consuming honey would still feel better or physiologically different, and it is objectively "healthier" because of polyphenols and fructose.

I agree that maximizing your body's ability to handle food and maintain homeostasis is actually more important than the food you put inside of it, but the food you put inside of it is still important nonetheless. The engine for the car is more important than the fuel, but it still won't run without fuel. It will also run differently. 

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

The ratio of glucose/fructose/sucrose or whatever mono/oligosaccharides you want doesn't matter.

Why doesn't it matter?

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Otherwise, it seems to me that in their joint video, Haidut explained to Paul Saladino that products like corn syrup contained indigestible starch debris that could be inflammatory to the digestive system.

Interesting, there is always that risk with processed food. Less processed is better because there are always contaminants which you cannot personally screen for at the factory or production.

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I didn't say that. 

Maybe I expressed myself wrong, idk.

You didn't, but you also started talking about starch for seemingly no reason, so I had to assume it was about the sugar being compared to orange juice.

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

The most fragile vitamins like vitamin C can be largely destroyed, especially if your orange juice is made from a concentrate.
But it is still very nutritious and even contains anti-estrogenic compounds.

Yeah, but the nutrition is wrapped in an insane amount of easily absorbed sugar, to a maladaptive degree I would say. Not very efficient IMO.

[Princess Arabia]

@SchizophoniaYou really should not be giving health advice. Most of the stuff I see you say are so wrong, and if someone who didn't know any better would think you really knew what you're talking about. 

@Osaidis the only one making any sense here. His points are very valid and I can tell he's fairly knowledgeable in what he's saying. 

[Schizophonia]

3 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

@SchizophoniaYou really should not be giving health advice. Most of the stuff I see you say are so wrong, and if someone who didn't know any better would think you really knew what you're talking about. 

@Osaidis the only one making any sense here. His points are very valid and I can tell he's fairly knowledgeable in what he's saying. 

You begin to really annoying me with your dunning Kruger effect. Obviously, you have nothing to assert other than a crude begging of principles.

Eat whatever you want if you're convinced it's going to turn you into Spiderman, I don't care.

[Schizophonia]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

My point is that there are ways of consuming carbohydrates which have a significant difference in absorption despite being the same type of carbohydrate. Fructose, as you know, has a different effect despite being sugar. There is nuance which does have importance, because it is literally metabolized differently.

Fructose only undergoes an epathic passage to be converted into glucose, fat, and even a little lactate. It can also be used as is by certain cells.

 

The real question is will you notice a difference between white sugar and honey? Obviously not.

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

My stance is much more holistic than measuring polyphenols or just sugar spikes. You will quite literally feel experientially different consuming something like pizza even if you exactly measured it to have the same amount of sugar as something like fruit.

 

Pizza is full of fat and will trigger the randle cycle. May make you tired depending on your metabolic health.

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

The fiber in fruit definitely also curbs the increase in blood sugar. 

 

No, not so much.

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

Not to mention, honey will taste sweeter than just plain table sugar, which causes you to naturally consume less of it. There are many factors beyond just polyphenols and sugar increases. The fiber, the taste, the vitamins, all play a part in how you interact with the sugar.

 

Some honeys contain more glucose than fructose. There is no problem adding a teaspoon of sugar/honey to your tea.

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

I would never become obese or sick from consuming some amount of table sugar daily because it is maladaptive consumption that causes those types of chronic problems.
 

Yes, that's what I've been saying all along. 

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

But at the same time, consuming honey would still feel better or physiologically different, and it is objectively "healthier" because of polyphenols and fructose.

This is not significant.

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

Why doesn't it matter?

Interesting, there is always that risk with processed food. Less processed is better because there are always contaminants which you cannot personally screen for at the factory or production.

You didn't, but you also started talking about starch for seemingly no reason, so I had to assume it was about the sugar being compared to orange juice.

I meant that starches are a much bigger concern for your blood sugar if that really worries you. Whether because of the glycemic index or the quantity swallowed (glycemic load).

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

Yeah, but the nutrition is wrapped in an insane amount of easily absorbed sugar, to a maladaptive degree I would say. Not very efficient IMO.

There is also a lot of oil, starch, etc. and that doesn’t seem to interest people that much.
I eat like I always ate growing up and basically how people eat here and it works well. This includes white sugar and “Refined” starches here and there.

[Princess Arabia]

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

You begin to really annoying me with your dunning Kruger effect. Obviously, you have nothing to assert other than a crude begging of principles.

Eat whatever you want if you're convinced it's going to turn you into Spiderman, I don't care.

You're right. I'll leave you alone in this matter. No sense in hammering you down like I do. It's not changing anything and will not do me or you any justice. You'll believe what you wanna believe and eat how and what you choose.

On a side note, and you don't have to comment on it, but I've seen numerous people around me eating the way you're suggesting over the years while telling me about my "natural" cigarette habit and how u should quit and how its bad for me. Now, they are the ones with the diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, insomnia, and all kinds of degenerative diseases all from their diet. The only difference with me is because of the way I eat and the things I avoid and the holistic approach in my overall way of living. 

You also mentioned above about the honey and the sugar. There is a difference with how the body metabolizes RAW honey vs. white sugar- and I stress raw.  There are lots of fake honey on the market and people aren't aware of the big honey scam in the manufacturing industry. White flour also spikes your insulin levels more than unrefined flours. 

I'll leave this at that, and not comment to you anymore in this section when I see you giving advice that is harmful. It's not my place to keep corrected you in this and you are free to consume whatever you want, it's just I would hate to see someone taking it as good advice not realizing how harmful it could be if they are not properly informed about their own bodies and are not vigilant in doing their own research on nutrition and the surrounding areas that it involves. Chow.

[undeather]