I finally understand solipsism!

[UnbornTao]

Get what you and another are. Everything else is worthless philosophizing compared to that. 

[UnbornTao]

Get what you and another are. Everything else is worthless philosophizing compared to that. 

[Yimpa]

Get what worthless philosophizing is. Everything else is you and another compared to that. 

[Someone here]

@Carl-Richard keep playing these intellectual games and you will never awaken. 

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Once we get the fact of direct experience out of the way (that there is only one Consciousness), then we can consciously go on to grant things such as space, time and objects (and logical deductions based on those), because that is how we come to understand much of the world, particularly the world of things, people and inner experiences (which again, is not direct experience). Now, when you grant these things, most rational people will conclude (using logical inferences and based on how objects in their inner experience seem to behave and interract) that their inner experience is not the only inner experience that exists.

Yes . Others appear as if they are  conscious. But is that enough evidence that they are conscious? 

People in your dreams also appear to be conscious..does that make them conscious? 

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

On the other hand, what solipsists tend to do (usually unconsciously) is to grant space, time and objects but then severely limit the scope of their logical deductions. They will say (implictly not explictly): "I'm only able to see a particular configuration of space, time and objects here, therefore that is all that exists". Most rational people will further the investigation and say "but looking at these objects and how they behave and interract, other people seem very alike me, both in behavior and appearance, and when I perform a particular behavior, that causes a change in my inner experience, thus other people must likely experience the same thing".

Yes you talk and others talk . You eat and others eat .you go to the bathroom and others go to the bathroom etc.

You did not definitively prove that others are having a conscious experience because the same behaviour happens from others in your dream (all these correlations you mentioned).

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

In this sense, solipsism is a conceptual understanding of the world that feigns conceptual minimalism by unconsciously smuggling conceptual assumptions, and as a consequence, it becomes unable to take advantage of these assumptions in a way that makes sense, because they (solipsists) are unconscious of what they're actually doing. They think these assumptions are just what is self-evident, that there are no assumptions involved, but in reality, it's just a stereotypical and unconscious way of trying to find the most reductionistic and parsimonious worldview there is (which is attractive because it gives a feeling of safety). In reality, it's not reductionistic, not parsimonious, but instead a constipated and lobotomized view of the world.

Solipsism is one of the most powerful Epistemological positions. And yes it minimises unnecessary assumptions. Which makes it all more powerful . You have not disproved it yet in the slightest. 

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

And why is it that? Again, because you grant all these things (space, time, objects and logic), but then you severely limit the use of these things (you constipate or lobotomize yourself). Like, why grant the existence of objects but don't investigate a bit deeper how they behave and interract (other than how they merely relate to the position of your eyes)? It's like you're playing a game of monopoly where you give yourself a huge stack of cash but you only use pocket change to play the game. And it's worse than simply being stingy, because you actually believe that you only have the pocket change. You unconsciously granted yourself a huge stack of cash, but in your unconsciousness, you don't think it exists.

I don't understand what you are saying here .

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

So in summary, if you want to concede to making conceptual claims and answer the question of how many people in the world have an inner experience: 1. don't claim you're not making a conceptual claim when actually you are (don't smuggle conceptual assumptions), and 2. do it right (investigate a bit deeper how objects behave). Then you should have your answer.

What assumptions are the solipsist making  ? It's self-evident that you are having a conscious experience and that everything (including objects ..time ..space..others etc) have no reality or substance outside of your experience. 

You close your eyes..the visual field goes poof . You go to sleep ..the entire universe goes poof .

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Get what you and another are. Everything else is worthless philosophizing compared to that. 

Are you Peter Ralston's son ?

[Sincerity]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Carl-Richard keep playing these intellectual games and you will never awaken. 

The epitome of your arrogance and closedmindedness. Like You'd know what awaken means... Unbelievable. 

[Someone here]

@Sincerity bro please enough personal attacks . I get that you don't like me . But please stop abusing your power as a mod and stop attacking me and calling me ignorant and so forth . This Is not expected from a mod. 

[Yimpa]

When you’re mad, eat some mod pizza!

https://modpizza.com/

or meditate

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Yimpa

[Sincerity]

Just now, Someone here said:

@Sincerity bro please enough personal attacks . I get that you don't like me . But please stop abusing your power as a mod and stop attacking me and calling me ignorant and so forth . This Is not expected from a mod. 

It is shameless of You to educate others about awakening when You have no experience yourself. You are muddying the waters and You have to be called out.

[Someone here]

@Sincerity 

9 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

when You have no experience yourself

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW? 

Don't assume that you know more than me . You might not . You don't know me .you don't know if I'm awake or not .

I'm actually extremely conscious of amazing things ..and I consider myself awake . That doesn't mean I know everything. That's why I keep on changing  my worldview every weekend. Because I'm working so hard and wracking my mind over existential questions....I literally didn't sleep for three days now contemplating solipsism. 

Please just stop attacking me personally or I will have no other choice but to report you to Leo.  Because you are being extremely disrespectful. 

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I literally didn't sleep for three days now contemplating solipsism. 

That sounds very concerning.

Quote

I consider myself awake 

You’re literally awake! 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

That sounds very concerning

Don't worry I'm in such a good state of consciousness right now  that I have literally magical energy to endure sleepless nights. 

Fuck sleeping. We spend half of our lives sleeping .better use that Time into something useful like contemplating. 

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

You’re literally awake! 

Of course(in both senses ).

[Keryo Koffa]

34 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

It is shameless of You to educate others about awakening when You have no experience yourself. You are muddying the waters and You have to be called out.

I think the mere concept of "muddying the waters" is more harmful than any perspective. This forum is specifically meant for "radical open-mindedness". Nothing is off the table and we make sense of perspectives by reasoning through them. Not dismissing each other. It's not about us, it's about the ideas themselves.

57 minutes ago, Someone here said:

People in your dreams also appear to be conscious..does that make them conscious? 

You did not definitively prove that others are having a conscious experience

Solipsism is one of the most powerful Epistemological positions. And yes it minimises unnecessary assumptions. Which makes it all more powerful . You have not disproved it yet in the slightest.

I wouldn't dismiss the ability of others being conscious right away. But I wouldn't accept it either. The truth is that we don't know. If you look at a thing, you draw associations. Memory and ideas enter your mind that didn't exist before. The unconscious is vast. We are not aware of how we created this world, just that we are a conscious experience perceiving it. Maybe consciousness is fundamental and exists within everything. Maybe consciousness splits into every human. Maybe consciousness is an infinitely fractal perspective and every configuration of matter is conscious, albeit not self-aware. The truth is, we can only know or direct experience, and even that is questionable due to its nature. All we can know is, there is at least one consciousness, the one you can confirm now. Everything else is speculation, though the different evidence might be convincing.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Keryo Koffa

[Sincerity]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW? 

It's apparent to anyone with some experience.

You feel the depth behind experienced people's words. Your words are empty because they do not have experience behind them. Simple as that. You might be saying similar things to Leo or Nahm for example, You might be thinking for a thousand or ten thousand hours but it still doesn't change the fact that You don't have EXPERIENCE.

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Don't assume that you know more than me . You might not . You don't know me .you don't know if I'm awake or not .

I'm not assuming anything. It's clear as day. There are many users here which have genuine understanding based in experience and that's visible too. But You are not one of them.

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Please just stop attacking me personally or I will have no other choice but to report you to Leo.  Because you are being extremely disrespectful. 

As long as You keep being arrogant and educating others about things You have no experience with, there will always be someone calling You out. You should expect that. And for the record, I'm not at all enjoying it. Frankly I'm tired of it.

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm actually extremely conscious of amazing things ..and I consider myself awake .

Good luck then...

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

I wouldn't dismiss the ability of others being conscious right away. But I wouldn't accept it either. The truth is that we don't know

What If you could know definitively?  Why aren't you open to that possibility?  

Its actually very simple if you think about it ..I'm just words on a screen for you right now .dead brute words .mere words .mere qualia within your consciousness. Your consciousness is absolute. And it's the only thing that exists. 

@Sincerity fair enough. Have a nice one 👍 

[Sincerity]

15 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

I think the mere concept of "muddying the waters" is more harmful than any perspective. This forum is specifically meant for "radical open-mindedness". Nothing is off the table and we make sense of perspectives by reasoning through them. Not dismissing each other. It's not about us, it's about the ideas themselves.

Ah, a relativist. 

Well, I disagree. Some users here, some perspectives are closer to truth. And some are further away. It's not about ideas, it's about connecting to Reality so to say, or becoming conscious of it. Which is what spirituality is about.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Sincerity

[Yimpa]

14 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Nothing is off the table and we make sense of perspectives by reasoning through them. Not dismissing each other.

This implies that dismissing each other is not off the table, either.

[OBEler]

31 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Don't worry I'm in such a good state of consciousness right now  that I have literally magical energy to endure sleepless nights. 

Fuck sleeping. We spend half of our lives sleeping .better use that Time into something useful like contemplating. 

Of course(in both senses ).

@Someone here  Please put your magical sleep disorder away and let's be real here.You are a classical example of the  Dunning–Kruger effect. 

And good that you contemplate so much but it seems that doesn't make you more competent in this field. The bias is too strong in you. 

Carl Richard explained it so good, please try to understand his last post again. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by OBEler

[Max1993]

@Someone here Take it further, from my perspective I am the only one alive and you are not, we are not alive at the same time, you left a pre-recording for yourself to talk to but it is a genuine one since you are me right now over here right now. Everyone is real, as they are as real as you are over there now, just conscious at a different time linearly. Can you hear my thoughts right now? I am having thoughts now that you do not know about. However, in a sleeping dream, it does not seem like those images live out there own personal lives. Can you explain solipsism within a dream versus waking solipsism? I want your perspective on this. 

[Someone here]

You know what guys ...to hell with it 

Fucking lock this goddam thread .

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

You know what guys ...to hell with it 

Fucking lock this goddam thread .

R u sure?  Well here's your problem.   You are too much into metaphysics and not enough into spirituality.